Lotr5 -- Tactless Darius

[Arathorn]

Got it. Will build warriors/spears and take the fight to Germany. We'll see how things go after sacking Konigsburg.

Guess it'll have to be a "sneak attack", as we can't exactly dial up Bizzy to tell him we're at war!

Thanks, T-hawk.

Arathorn

 

[Charis]

Arathorn,

Will the AI *ever* offer deals to a player known to be treacherous? We'll get few enough offers this game, if that drips down to zero or the few offers we get are worsened... ouch!

How much tact does it take to declare war? There's no "negotiation" -- you do it all from the prelim screen. Just a thought. Then again... failing to declare war *is* rather tactless

Back to math... I've added in promotions and proper IBT healing (curse you, I'll have to work on my 'work' project for about 3 hrs tonight to catch up!)

Previous statement:
- 9 vet archers have 95% chance to take 4 regular spear hill city
- 6 have a 65% chance, and 7.8 are needed on avg to blitz it in one turn
Allowing the defenders (who do not counterattack) to heal:
- 10 needed for a 95% chance (9 gives 91% chance)
- 6 have a 45% chance to win a siege, same blitz answers (by definition)
Turning on the switch to allow promotions, they're mil, we're not:
- 14 vet archers needed for 95% chance (ok, you told me so!)
- 6 have a 33% chance to win, 8.7 needed to blitz
So the no-promotion error was significant, but it's exagerated somewhat looking for a 95% C.I., and the no-heal error was ~1 attacker.
In the siege of 14 on 4, we expect 0.5 promotions, they expect a total of 3.5 (ouch. Mil regs are 50% likely to promote). 90% of the sieges last just one round with this many attackers, 10% taking a second round.

Previous I mentioned numbers of 12 vet archers or 8 swords, 6 immortals to take Berlin. Accounting for healing and promotions, and this time giving Berlin a new barracks (but six reg defenders)
Here both IBT healing and promotion are significant, and 12 vet archers would only have a 50% chance to take the city. For a 95% chance, we would need 22 vet archers, and would see 6.4 German units promote. Vet swords? Bring 12 for 95% to win. Immortals? Just 9 of these bad boys have a 95% chance of defeating six spears, cutting their promotions to 1.4, and with 0.7 promotions to elite expected ourselves.

With the new numbers at Konigsberg, if they have two defenders, we still would want 9 vet archers for 95% confidence, as they'll snag about two promotions. (Again, just 3 have nearly a 50-50 chance of winning the city, but promotions skew the 'tail' end of the distribution, ie RNG bad luck, pretty badly)

Three defenders? 19 to be safe (95% chance), although 8 have over a 50-50 chance.

Size 7 and a fifth defender, WITH promotions? I'm thinking more than 12 now, let's see.... click... whirl... indeed, 29 vet archers, as we would see on average 11 lost and watch 9 Germans promote.

I've not thoroughly tested the program yet, but things look good so far, and the results are much closer to what your comments (and our experience) suggest. Glad I fixed it

Let me know if you have any other questions, or any 'test cases' to double check me.

Charis

 

[Arathorn]

One good turn…one bad turn, and a whole lot of other turns in-between.

(0) 750 – Wake up the troops and move on Konigsburg. 10 archers and 4 spears cross the border into German territory. Konigsburg is showing a vet spear on top. Part of my reason for hurrying was the 8 gpt in unit costs were absolutely killing us. I also change build orders to spears and warriors.

(I) Bismarck dials us up and orders us to get out or declare war, so we declare war. For some reason, he didn’t offer us tech in that exchange! Then he moves a couple horses near Konigsburg and retreats workers into the city. Thanks!

(1) 730 – The assault on Konigsburg….
Vet archer vs. vet spear. We lose 3 hps and win.
Vet archer vs. reg spear. We do 2 hps and die.
Vet archer vs. reg spear. We do 1 hp and die.
Vet archer vs. reg spear. We do 1 hp and die.
Vet archer vs. reg spear w/2 hps. We win without a scratch.
Vet archer vs. reg spear w/2 hps. We lose 1 hp and win.
Vet archer vs. reg archer. We lose 1 hp and win.
Vet archer vs. reg spear w/1 hp. We win without a scratch.
Konigsburg is captured with two resistors and five workers! Overall, we’re plus 8 gpt because of this battle – fewer units to support plus more city support. We killed 5 units to capture the city, at a loss of 3 of our own. Pretty lucky for fighting uphill.

Bismarck’s counter-attack is to kill our conscript warrior up near his lands (he had nowhere to run) and to pillage a mountain square.

(2) 710 – Attack horsies on mountains. First archer kills a horse. Second one dies. Third one retreats a horse. Three spears cover this archer.

Counter-attack starts. Two swords die to spears on the mountain. The third wins, killing one of our spears.

Then, iron working comes in!!! I start us on alphabet, as map-making before TOO long will be important, as will literacy. Still min sci, though, as don’t really have much research muscle and will want cash for upgrades, I expect. Persepolis finishes its warrior and I’m given the option of building Immortals!!!! [dance]

(3) 690 – Look around and see two sources of iron on our continent/island. One is the mountain NE of Konigsburg (the unpillaged one, thank goodness). The other is almost exactly equidistant between Berlin, Heidelburg, and Munich. Unfortunately, our source is going to be reasonably hard to defend.

I move 3 spears to defend our iron and retreat the ones from the other mountain to defend K. Bizzy is starting to get semi-serious about moving troops into position to attack.

One sword dies attacking iron mountain.

(4) 670 – Trying to get enough units up to the front to survive, while still providing MP at home.

Archer attacks K and dies, doing 2 hp. Sword attacks iron mountain, doing 1 hp and dying. Horse attacks K, does 2 dmg and retreats. Horse attacks K and loses 1 hp, killing a spear.

(5) 650 – Not much I can do now besides hope.

Warrior attacks K and dies, doing 2 hp. Archer attacks K and dies, doing 3 hp. Sword attacks K, does 0 hp and we promote. Sword attacks K and we lose our promoted spear, doing 1 hp dmg. Archer attacks K and dies, doing 1 hp. Bizzy is also moving a bunch of spears around K to our backlines, as a pillage patrol. If/when they get to flatlands, I’ll have to attack, just to keep reinforcement time down and iron moving in.

(6) 630 – Balancing defense of iron mountain and K.

Archer attacks K and dies, doing 2 hp and giving us a promo. Sword attacks K and dies, doing 2 hp. Sword attacks iron and dies, doing 0 hp. Horse attacks K, does 0 hp and retreats. Then more pillaging and movement of pillagers.

(7) 610 – Gotta attack the pillaging spears behind K. At least they’re on flatlands and not fortified.
Vet archer @ vet spear. Do 2 and die.
Vet immortal @ vet spear. Do 1 and die.
Vet archer @ vet spear. Lose 2 and win.
Vet archer @ reg spear. Do 2 and die.
Vet archer @ vet spear (3hp). Do 1, die, and promote it.
Vet archer @ elite spear (3hp). Lose 2 and win.
Vet archer @ vet spear (2hp). Lose 2 and win.
Reg warrior @ reg spear (1hp). Do 0, die, and promote it.
Vet archer @ vet spear (2hp). Lose 1 and win. (I’d missed this fortified archer on my first pass.)
Killing those four spears on the flatlands took a heckuva lot more units than killing five fortified units up a hill! :rant:

Sword at iron dies, doing 2. Sword at iron dies, doing 1. Sword at iron wins, taking 0. Sword at iron dies, doing 2, promoting us. Sword at iron wins, taking 0. Spear at final victorious archer south of K wins, taking 0. Archer at iron (archer defender) dies, doing 0. Sword at iron (archer defender) dies, doing 0 and promo. Pillaging by K that I can do nothing about.

(8) 590 – We have almost no offense left. Another vet immortal reaches the front and attacks a regular spear, killing it, losing 1 hp. Golden Age!!! I go in and re-micro everything for the GA. Pers will grow again. Pasa can get 10 shields. Elite archer offs vet spear with 3 hps, losing 4 in the process, but keeping our improvements safe a bit longer. And, of course, the defense shuffle to try to keep K and iron both.

Sword at iron dies, doing 2. Spear at archer (1hp) wins, taking 0. And 6 spears move to a vital road link between K and Susa.

(9) 570 – Gotta attack the spears. 2 vet immortals are up first, one winning, one losing. 4 healed vet archers are next, also splitting… About this time, panic mode sets in. We have 3 spears left for defense. Bizzy has 2 horses, 2 swords, and 2 archers in position to attack either iron or K. Since the road link back to our core can be pillaged this turn anyway, I abandon the iron and pull everybody back into K.

I up the lux tax, as we’re growing beyond our current capacity. This lets me re-micro everybody and move a couple more units towards the front. Persepolis has a 16/14 shield configuration with no-food/growth, so it should be watched every turn we have immortals available.

Sword at K dies, doing 2. Sword at K dies, doing 1. Archer at K dies, doing 2 plus promo. Horse at K dies, doing 1. Horse at K retreats, doing 0. Spear behind K attacks immortal in the open, taking 0, killing the immortal, promoting, but not pillaging, giving us one more turn of iron. Some pillaging takes place, however. And we will lose our iron next turn.

(10) 550 – I think I can keep the road to K open now. Vet immortal trashes reg spear, losing 0 hp. K should be set up to defend itself for a while.

Here’s a look at iron mountain….



Overall, it looks like Germany is about out of “on hand” offensive units, so we should start seeing the trickle attacks soon, I hope. Casualty counts for both sides…. We lost 11 archers, 5 spears, 3 immortals, and 2 warriors. Germany lost 7 archers, 14 spears, 14 swords, 2 horsies, and 1 warrior. All the swords were vets (except one elite), most of the archers were regs and the spears were almost exactly 50/50. Total: 21 to 38. Not very good. Sorry, guys. We’re a bit behind in tech. Some catapults would’ve been VERY nice, but that’s quite a ways away. And I just don’t think we could’ve waited any longer.

Once K finishes its walls, I would have it whip out barracks ASAP. Backline cities will not be able to build immortals anymore, so I’d go with a bunch of spears to try to move in and defend iron mountain. We have a few workers, but they’ll be out of tasks soon, so they can move up and hopefully reconnect iron mountain before too long. I think that’s a tall order but possible for T-hawk on his turn.

We’re almost completely spent on offensive units. I think we’ll have 3 or 4 immortals once the dust clears. Germany still has a bunch of spears running around trying to pillage. Keeping them off the road to Konigsburg will probably become important.

Save file at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-550bc.zip

T-hawk -- up now
Gothmog -- on deck
Charis -- in the hole

Arathorn

 

[T-hawk]

Got it. Got time to play right now, might not later this weekend, so I'm going with it; it's not like we really need to make any group discussion on anything

 

[Gothmog]

That's more swords than I expected Germany to have for the initial assault. I bet Biz had designs on our land the whole time. He would have come for us soon and it would have been much worse. No way could we have waited for cat's.

Well, at least there is Iron at K, doesn't look like we could push anywhere right now. Getting Iron and our roads under control is top priority for sure. If possible we could send a stack of spears along the mountain range towards Berlin. It might tempt Germany to attack them in our most advanageous position.

Edit: I see T-hawk is already on it. Good luck

 

[T-hawk]

Wow. That's a LOT of spears. A lot a lot. Nineteen German spears are in our territory, along with two swords.

Inherited turn: I decide to swap Arbela from barracks to (non-vet) immortal, while we still have that option.

Between turns: The two German swords attack, inflicting no losses. The iron gets pillaged as expected and most of the German spears advance to the hill next to Konigsberg.

Without iron, I have Persepolis and Pasargadae start building spears.


530 BC: I make no attacks this turn, since I think the German spears are going to get off the hill and I'd rather attack them on flatland.


510 BC: But no, the giant German spear stack went back onto our iron. Konigsberg builds its walls.

I make one attack this turn, a vet immortal against one German sword on a mountain but not covered with a spear; we win.


490 BC: Now the German spears are back on the hill. I'm guessing that I had a unit on whatever tile they think their goal is, probably the Konigsberg-Susa road.

We may be tactless, but Otto is apparently brainless. First, he has his spears wander back and forth aimlessly. Second, HE LEFT THE IRON TILE UNOCCUPIED THIS TURN. And he has only two offensive units next to it, one horse and one sword.

I've got to grab control of the tile while we can. One real worker and two slaves (that's all we had in the area; I got them into Konigsberg ahead of time) go onto the tile, protected by two spears and two immortals.

A German horse attacks K and loses. German spears move onto the road between K and home; it'll get pillaged but now it's the killing zone I wanted.


470 BC: Our iron task force fortifies in place. Our workers start building a fortress but then realize we don't know Construction, so they start building a road instead (using the Ctrl-R trick.) Our cities start cranking warriors for upgrade.

Four immortals attack four of the German spears.. and we lose two. Stupid RNG. Then our archer beats one and takes no damage.

German archer takes our elite spear in K to one HP but we win. One of the German spears pillages the road and the rest wander back onto the hill (sigh..) Konigsberg riots due to losing the luxury.


450 BC: An immortal kills the German spear that pillaged and is still on flatland.

One German archer loses against K again. The rest of the German spears wander back onto flatland because I left them a route to a tile they could pillage. I almost feel dirty manipulating them like that.... almost.



430 BC: I should've done this before, but now I switch K to archer, whip, switch to barracks, and whip again. The city can't even work its good tiles with Germans stepping all over them anyway, so may as well put the population to some use.

A German spear on flatland beats 3 HP off our attacking immortal but we win 4 straight. Our elite archer takes out another.

Our workers have finished the iron road, and because I used Ctrl-R, one regular and one slave worker is available again this turn. They move onto the tile that the German spears pillaged to road it up again, protected by a spearman (the AI won't attack a spear with a spear and there's no offensive units there.)


Two German swords inflict no casualties on K. Not a single German unit has won against the city on my turn.



410 BC: Those workers complete the road on the tile SE of K, letting Immortals from K reach the German spears two tiles SE of K (one NE from Arbela) this turn. Two immortals and our elite archer kill all three German spears. The invasion has ended; our iron connection is safe. And we upgrade five warriors to immortals this turn.


Yet two more German swords and one horse attack K, inflicting no casualties. Apparently Bismarck doesn't have a copy of Charis' combat calculator.

Carthage completes the Great Library, and Bombay completes the Great Wall.


390 BC: Three more Immortal upgrades are all the action on this turn.

Two more German swords attack K and lose.

370 BC: More consolidating and upgrading. One more German sword loses to Battleship Konigsberg.

350 BC: I leave most of our units unmoved so the next leader can decide whether to start taking our immortals towards Berlin this turn. We have 11 at Konigsberg, including one on the iron tile, plus two archers and a couple upgradable warriors. I apologize for miscounting and leaving Persepolis one shield short of an immortal this turn.

Note that Germany has not attacked our iron tile setup yet; they are always attacking Konigsberg instead. I'm not sure why, since the tiles should have equal defense bonus (50% hill + 50% walls / 100% mountain), but I'll take it.

Germany is well into trickle-attack mode, but it is indeed a pretty persistent trickle.

Total casualties on my turn: Persia 2, Germany 22. That better results for you, Arathorn?

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-350bc.zip

Oh, and Berlin looks mighty fine for a Leader-rushed Forbidden Palace site....

 

[T-hawk]

By the way, the key to getting that casualty count is to never attack spears on high ground. Spears can't threaten anything. All they can do is pillage. And the only pillagable things that we have are flatland (now that we control the iron tile - DO NOT move those spears), so wait until they get there before attacking them. (Not a criticism of anything Arathorn did at all; I just had much better stuff to work with than he did. )

 

[Charis]

Fantastic results!!

Arathorn, nice job, and way to take it to them!
I was surprised, and very nervous, that you started the war on turn zero, but I can understand the gpt/support issue.

> Apparently Bismarck doesn't have a copy of Charis' combat calculator.
Good thing!

> Total casualties on my turn: Persia 2, Germany 22.
omg, forget my calculator, where can I get yours?!?!

And now 11 Immortals at K?? Look out Berlin! Actually, I would likely see if their 'other' iron source is hooked up or not. In any case, park on it. With Germany having no chance at Iron, Immortals on our side, and us getting to choose the terrain, they're going to get *whooped*. (Caution about German vet trickle still being significant of course)

Also, with them gassed, and with no means to get a "good" deal for peace, I don't see this war ending unti they've been wiped off the planet. If we can do it before another civ contacts them, they won't even know about the sneak attack!

Charis

 

[Arathorn]

Excellent turn, T-hawk! Much better than I had hoped, even with your fine skills. A bit of luck never hurts, either. Looks like you made up for my bad luck (I was 1 for 3 attacking spears with immortals on flat lands) with good luck.

Iron, 11 immortals, and enough spears for defense? Sounds great to me. Up to Gothmog on whether to move forward or not, but things are looking pretty good.

And I think I forgot to mention that Russia completed the Great Lighthouse during my turns. It was in my notes, but I don't see it in my write-up. We're a ways behind in tech, people. But a bigger core will go a long ways towards helping us catch up.

We probably have about 6 turns of GA left, and then unit costs and low-shield counts might start hurting again. But we're doing OK at this point, and the longer we survive, the better I like our chances.

Gothmog, you're up.
Charis, on deck.
T-hawk, in the hole.
I can't get it 'til Sunday night at the earliest.

Arathorn

 

[Gothmog]

Well Biz moving off the Iron is more than we could have asked for. I was thinking pillage the German Iron with the spears we would be building with no iron available, but that is now a moot point.

11:1 kill ratio? Always good.

"I apologize for miscounting and leaving Persepolis one shield short of an immortal this turn."
We wont mention it again

Berlin will be a great FP spot, I just hope we get a leader before Germany is gone. It is also central enough that we could contemplate a Palace jump at a later time.

'I got it'

I will be attacking Germans only on flatland, protecting our Iron and road net, and moving to pillage/secure the German Iron.

 

[Gothmog]

Preturn: I see that all the paths off Iron Mountain are blocked, but the Iron is secure. I think we need one city producing Spears. Pasargadae at 10 spt is a likely target once it finishes its Immortal. I decide not to move our SoD in the preturn, I really don’t want to attack a spear on a mountain (even regular and unfortified). I upgrade one of the warriors at K to join the stack. Click…

IT – Sword attacks K and knocks our Elite spear down to 2 hp before dying. Two more swords attack and both target our Elite Immortal, both lose. The direct route towards Berlin indeed opens up.

(1) 330 BC – Four swords threaten K. Well fortune favors the brave (or was that the well prepared?), so I push into the newly opened location with 11 immortals.

IT – Two swords die at K. We get a Bonus grass from the forest chop at Persepolis.

(2) 310 BC – OK Biz, you want Blitzkreig? I’ll give you Blitzkreig. Our SoD moves right next to Berlin!

IT - Two swords attack our SoD, we win one and lose one. The main German SoD withdrawls towards Berlin.

(3) 290 BC – Kill 2 spears on pillaging run SW of K. Attack on Berlin: first two Immortals take out a spear each, third two damage and lose, fourth redlines before winning the last two and promoting, fifth kills off wounded shield and Berlin falls? Only four defenders in their capital. I guess they didn’t expect a Blitzkreig! I raze it. Lepzig now the capital. I shore up the troops for the IT.

IT – Three swords reassault us, we lose one Immortal but we kill two swords and promote once. Other troop move towards the former Berlin.

(4) 270 BC – Mop up troops that advanced on us, kill spear and sword (but we redline both times), then kill another stack of two swords. A reinforcing spear arrives at K and I move an Elite spear towards the front lines.

IT – Kill one sword, lose one of the redlined Im’s to a sword swooping out of the fog. Germans found Cologne where Berlin was with one spear defender.

(5) 250 BC – Cologne razed, it was defended by a regular spear . Kill sword and heal troops near Cologne. Germans have MM as I see a galley on our coast.

IT – No reassault at all. Here comes another settler, this time with a spear and sword. Lots of German spears mill about.

(6) 230 BC – Kill sword, kill sword and spear defending the settler and get two more slaves, lose to sword, kill sword.

IT – Lose another immortal but kill another sword.

(7) 210 BC – Kill spear and promote, kill sword.

IT – Troop movement.

(8) 190 BC – Kill sword. Many Elite wins, and no GL yet. Kill another sword. Our GA ends and I adjust our cities. We are less than we were. A stack I had moving towards the Iron finds its self in position to attack Munic next turn.

IT – One city still decides to riot. Kill sword that attacked a spear on a mountain. Five German spears head SE.

(9) 170 BC – Lose to spear, kill two others, our Elite archer loses, kill wounded spear, kill wounded spear. Attack on Munic: win, lose, win – I decide to keep it. It’s size one and is in a good location for us. As a bonus it has a racks and granary. I capture a couple workers nearby. No more gems for Germany.

IT – Spear attacks a redlined Im, and promotes it! I didn’t think that spear would go for it. Biz is starting to get desperate.

(10) 150 BC – Kill sword x2. Move Im/spear pair on the German Iron.

Summary: The war is going well. Our GA really helped speed things up. At some point we need to start on infrastructure. 40 turn research is too slow. You may want to decide on a production path in the beginning. I concentrated on war and just pumped out troops. We may want to go back to growth in some situations. The Germans wont be the end of us at least.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-150bc.zip

 

[Charis]

Gothmog, please repost the save file itself, your uploaded zip is corrupt.

Charis

PS in EDIT -- second one below is good, tnx Gothmog

 

[Gothmog]

corrupt... , sorry. The zip I started with was OK. Try this one.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/lotr5-150bc2.zip

 

[Charis]

Charisarius, domestic advisor to the king, once again found himself in effective
control of the country. We were at war with the bloodthirsty Germans, started when
the tactless one marched right into German territory and refused to leave.
Gothmog, of the Balrog clan, had razed Berlin, Cologne and Munich! Leipzig is their
new capital, and there are only 4 other cities beside that. Charisarius, being
a civil man, wondered if we could have captured instead and saved settlers, but
General Gothmog was probably quite right, not having to waste a single unit of the
Immortal onslaught for Garrison. Germany is going to be steamrolled. It's just a matter
of when. This entire island shall be ours, and one day we shall have a Forbidden Palace
where Berlin once stood!

He looks over the current situation... treasury looks fair, tech situation is
quite poor, military is very nice, much stronger than Germany, although 9 units
over allowed. Our GA is now behind us, and at some point we'll need to push
infrastructure. With 14 immortals, they're toast. Charisarius plans to push them
down to one city, probably their worst, Frankfurt, then demand all their techs for
peace. We're so far back there are probably only three techs on the table, and they would
likely pay all. We're due Alphabet in 13 which will open up two others. We could accelerate
it to 8 turns, but 120g for a five turn savings isn't wise. So we have 13 turns to get
Germany down to one city. No problemo! The rest I will likely capture rather than
raze, as they'll be off the planet in 33 turns.

[0] -150: Perseopolis messed up on a few shields, two short of an immortal, and about
to grow in one turn. With the happiness problem that would cause and the need for a
few more settlers, I swap from Immortal to settler. Pasagarde, stuck at 6 without
aqueduct, is incorrectly getting a wheat for too much food. Susa swaps to worker.
Two vet warriors are upgraded to Immortals.

[IBT] Oh *CRUD* you won't like what was announced mid-turn! Moscow has just
completed Sun-TZU!!! We're ***SO*** far behind! If Germany is much further ahead
than we can see they might get TWO 20 turns periods of life?
A silly German swords runs out of Nuremburg to stand next to an immortal at Munich.

[1] -130: Pasagarde considers the "what about infrastructure?!" question and slips
a temple into the queue.

At Munich, our immortal wins and becomes elite. Others move up.

IBT a bit of luck, an immortal who slipped a tile ahead of his spear, is attacked
by a sword out of Leipzig. We're redlined, but then win, and they have no extra
unit to spare to finish him off!

[2] -110: Hamburg is captured by an elite and vet Immortal, sinking a German galley
in port. A Heidelberg defender is slain.

IBT another sword from Nuremburg. At least this one takes high ground (mtn).

[3] -90: High ground or not, our immortals eats his lunch.
Our first loss this reign occurs at Heidelburg.

IBT One immortal I moved last round left me thinking... he *could* send a sword
out of Leipzig to get him. If so, I'll kill him on counterattack and one less good
unit at Leipzig. Ok. Sure enough, they did so and killed an immortal.
Resistance in Hamburg and Munich end.

[4] -70: As planned/hoped, that sword is in turn killed. So is a defender at
Heidelberg. At Nuremburg a sword is on top, and he's defeated by an Immortal.
More move up. Our newest settler, undaunted by multiple ruins, starts to head
for the original Berlin location.

IBT Nothing but the sweet smell of gas.

[5] -50: The last two spear defenders at Leipzig are defeated. I debate razing, but
for growth purposes keep it. It has an intact rax and granary
One worker captured too. Two elites assault Nuremburg. Still no leaders 8-\
but we do capture the city, which has intact rax and *harbor*, our civ's first.
(Uh, WOW, we don't even have map making yet!)

Antioch is founded on the site of old Berlin. It has FP aspirations

IBT in fact we get the 'Maybe we should FP' msg! Truly an omen!!

Also... we see a Russian Galley!! It's right near Perseopolis. Uh... I can't
talk to him. Our good despot Darius is too tactless!

Tactless... oh no!! There will be no extortion of tech with Germany!! We're too
tactless to swing that deal. Sigh... Frankfurt, look out! I can only hope
Cathy will offer something nice for contact with Germans. Or... will their being
wiped out be 'our little secret'?!

[6] -30: Elite Imm wins at Heidelburg. Tired of being hearing the citizens of
Konigsburg WHINE about the bad treatment of the Germans, I decide they need
their temple NOW, so I whip them!

[7] -10: Heidelburg, mixed luck. It still has two defenders (whipping), and we lose
two units, but capture the city and are glad to see again a rax and granary standing!

Charisarius looks at the build queue. He will likely be forever known as a man of
culture, with NO immortals in production, and *7* temples and one granary. With all
the new cities, we're up to 44 allowed units, so 9 SHORT, much better for economy.
Leipzig gets a partial whip towards it's temple, to offset its starvation diet.

IBT A german sword out of Frankfort dances and weaves through a forest road to hit
an immortal behind our front line about to hit their city. He dies trying to shed
Immortal blood

[8] 10AD: Arbela got its barracks a while ago when it was DIRELY needed, in the initial
onslaught. That town, stuck too close to others, has no real productive future, as
it fights for good tiles with both Susa and Pasargardae. I sell the rax, for a permanent
1gpt boost to our income, and start a granary, to set this highly fed mini-city up
for a (hush...) worker farm.

Watching Cathy sail along the coast, she'll reach Otto next turn, where he will make
up lies about our treachery. Tactless Darius will be unable to refute these insane
claims, so what does the tactless one do? He's already hustled his troops over from
Leipzig expecting such a continegency, and he sends them upon Frankfurt. Just two
defenders later and we see...



The Germans are gone, just as the millenium closes. They will never spread lies about
us to Cathy. The sad thing is... had they ONLY talked to us, presented a good deal,
heck, any deal. But no... Otto was more tactless than us!!

Yet the most disappointing thing, despite a ton of elite attacks, no leaders. We could
really have used one for the FP.

[9] 30: Consolidation.

IBT - OMG, what's this???



Someone is talking to us??! Someone we've met or heard of yet? And he's offering
a decent deal? Mysticism for 100g? Absolutely! (It's hard to describe how odd it
was to be so excited about a trivial mid-turn deal off, due to the context of this game)
The explanation given: He 'fears our immortals'. Darn right!

[10] 50: Pasargardae finishes temple, starts granary (possible placeholder for aqueduct
if for some reason more deals float around)

That's about it. Things have gone from *very* hairy to utterly quiet, and yes we
need to start getting some research capability built up. After alphabet comes in shortly
we're probably looking at about a 20-turn no-deficit research rate for the next few
techs. If we can't research on our own we're going to be left in the dust. But we'll
also want to have a few hundred in the bank for deals like what India offered. It will
help too, by reducing costs, once more civs (cough) introduce themselves to us.

Save game 50 AD

Good luck, (JMB, then T-Hawk)
Charis

 

[Arathorn]

Actually, JMB won't be back until tomorrow, so if T-hawk wants to play tonight, he's free to go.

You had me a bit worried there, Charis, talking about making peace for techs. I'm glad we didn't get TKO'd.

Now that this island is ours, we gotta get moving on infra and techs -- we at least need Republic, Literacy, and map making ASAP. Which of those 3 is most important, I'm not sure -- probably Republic, but it takes so long to get to.

Once the min sci run on Alphabet is over, we should crank science up. The extra contacts will help with that, even though we never talk to them. Getting Mysticism for the low-low price of 100 gold is a good deal, too. Maybe a few other things like that will pop up...

One successful campaign does not a game make, but we're not TOO badly off. Yeah, we're an age behind in techs with no good way to catch up, but we're not defenseless and we now have enough land to make a good core and get some solid "builder" moves done.

Arathorn

 

[Gothmog]

Damn, I had a feeling about us not getting a leader. Oh well, what can be done?

Gandhi is such a tactfull fellow, how do we get a leader like that? Apparently Charisarius has designs on leadership: "demand all their techs for peace". And so full of tact! Too bad Darius still holds the purse strings.

And the Indians have feudalism already too, oh boy - we will get alphabet soon! We need to research lit so we can build some libraries, oh and map making, oh yes and ........

Looks good Charis.

 

[T-hawk]

I think we should go for Literature first - our cheap libraries will make a lot of difference. Map Making or Republic after that is a tough call, but I think I'd rely on India to trade around contact with little old us and go for Republic.

Are we allowed to open the diplo screen to see what other contacts India has?

 

[Arathorn]

No. We may not initiate diplomacy at all -- not even for information-gathering purposes. We can find out who has contact with us via Shift-D or F2, but we can't actually contact another leader -- even to just see their ugly mug. Nada/zippo!

T-hawk, you playing tonight? Just curious. I want to avoid conflicting turns, but I'm really pleased with the pace of the game so far and want to keep it going. I'm thinking 10 turns at this point should be pretty easy -- infra, infra, infra. No trading to do, no exploring possible yet.... No current wars to fight. Manage the cities and get us up to speed.

Embassies with India/Russia to see their approximate tech level/capital city location? Legal. I won't do it, but somebody else can.

Arathorn

 

[T-hawk]

I can play late tonight, probably around midnight Eastern. If JMB doesn't post a got it by then (not sure exactly how long he'll be away), I'll play.

 

[JMB]

Wow! A lot has changed...

I can take the game and post results by tomorrow night if T-hawk hasn't taken his turns by then... I'll wait until tomorrow morning to see if T-hawk has grabbed the file.

JMB