[MOD] Fall from Heaven

[loki1232]

Because there isn't an event thats triggered when a road is built.

Couldn't you add a python even that whenever unit x builds his road thing, an event triggers? A lot of coding, but great to use if it works out.

 

[Kael]

Couldn't you add a python even that whenever unit x builds his road thing, an event triggers? A lot of coding, but great to use if it works out.

No, you can't build new events with python, you can only have the existing events do things. Thats a pretty big oversimplification but it tends to be true.

Hey I just notioced your in NYC, im in NYC all the time for work. Next time im in town we will have to get together for dinner.

 

[Xuenay]

Of course a lot has been done with the Armageddon spells, at some point they are just huge "fun" effects. But I would say that if you build Meshabber and the Mithril Golem, you will probably win the game. Would you rather it just ended the game and told you you won for completing it, or would you rather it just end when you build them?

Tastes differ. Actually, I'd prefer it to just end when I built it.

Why? Because warfare in Civilization tends to be rather tedious. Oh, the fantasy units and heroes and all do add a lot of fun atmosphere into it, but in the end the average Civ war might go in one of two ways. One, you're beating your enemy with an ease and waging a war is just a question of moving your units into his cities, destroying the defenders and taking/razing them. Repeat either until the world is yours or you're bored to death. Two, the war doesn't go half as well, and you have enemy units marching into your territory, razing the improvements you've spent hundreds of turns building and taking from you all the cities you've built up with so much love and effort.

In my opinion, neither option is much fun. Instead, I prefer something like the space race victory - given evenly matched opponents, here's a chance for some real thrill and excitement when you build components in a tight race to win the game before your opponent does so first. What, has some opponent built three components already, when you haven't even researched the correct techs yet? Time to turn around your entire empire for a desperate rush for the right techs and parts and hope you'll be fast enough. Suddenly the wars will have an actual purpose, when you see that you have no chance of outbuilding your opponent - build a dedicated elite task force and send it to take out the enemy's main production centers, securing you a victory. Carry out some diplomatic intrigue to force your foes to spend their attention fighting wars while you let your bribed allies fight and finish the project yourself. Et cetera, et cetera. Beats the boring "go out and crush everyone" victory goal 100-0, in my opinion.

To me the weakest bit with FFH is exactly this, that there aren't many peaceful victory conditions. I like building the many wonders and city improvements as well as building a military just for the sake of having cool units, but by the time I should go out and actually conquer the world... meh. "New game" gets pretty tempting at this point.

So I'd like to have a space race-style winning option in. And if you do think that it's a boring way to win, well, no harm done - just disable it in the game options and crush the world in the usual fashion.

(Though it must be said that the Phase 2 ideas you mentioned do sound pretty promising alternatives, too. Maybe I'll just wait for that one.)

Catacomb Libralus may need to be yanked, libraries everywhere may be a game winning move.

Perhaps, but not necessarily. If you only have a small number of cities, it won't be saving you all *that* much production in any case, and you might already have some libraries built by the time you finish the wonder. And it's not like you wouldn't build those libraries anyway if you didn't get the wonder - all it does is give them to you a bit earlier. I've often left the Catacomb Libralus a pretty low priority - a nice wonder to build if there isn't anything better out there, but no great loss if an AI does manage to get it first.

As an aside, and hate to pester you, but did you get the PM with the flavor text suggestions I tossed you a while back? Just say so if you didn't like them or if there's something to be fixed, but I'd like to know if they were good or bad before writing any more. ^^;

 

[Desert Fox]

Another great looking Mod, Thanks Kael your work is incredible. For an alternative place to download your Mod I will host it on my website as well if thats okay? This will help get rid of the annoying ads and slow transfer speeds.

 

[Kael]

Tastes differ. Actually, I'd prefer it to just end when I built it.

Why? Because warfare in Civilization tends to be rather tedious. Oh, the fantasy units and heroes and all do add a lot of fun atmosphere into it, but in the end the average Civ war might go in one of two ways. One, you're beating your enemy with an ease and waging a war is just a question of moving your units into his cities, destroying the defenders and taking/razing them. Repeat either until the world is yours or you're bored to death. Two, the war doesn't go half as well, and you have enemy units marching into your territory, razing the improvements you've spent hundreds of turns building and taking from you all the cities you've built up with so much love and effort.

In my opinion, neither option is much fun. Instead, I prefer something like the space race victory - given evenly matched opponents, here's a chance for some real thrill and excitement when you build components in a tight race to win the game before your opponent does so first. What, has some opponent built three components already, when you haven't even researched the correct techs yet? Time to turn around your entire empire for a desperate rush for the right techs and parts and hope you'll be fast enough. Suddenly the wars will have an actual purpose, when you see that you have no chance of outbuilding your opponent - build a dedicated elite task force and send it to take out the enemy's main production centers, securing you a victory. Carry out some diplomatic intrigue to force your foes to spend their attention fighting wars while you let your bribed allies fight and finish the project yourself. Et cetera, et cetera. Beats the boring "go out and crush everyone" victory goal 100-0, in my opinion.

To me the weakest bit with FFH is exactly this, that there aren't many peaceful victory conditions. I like building the many wonders and city improvements as well as building a military just for the sake of having cool units, but by the time I should go out and actually conquer the world... meh. "New game" gets pretty tempting at this point.

So I'd like to have a space race-style winning option in. And if you do think that it's a boring way to win, well, no harm done - just disable it in the game options and crush the world in the usual fashion.

(Though it must be said that the Phase 2 ideas you mentioned do sound pretty promising alternatives, too. Maybe I'll just wait for that one.)



Perhaps, but not necessarily. If you only have a small number of cities, it won't be saving you all *that* much production in any case, and you might already have some libraries built by the time you finish the wonder. And it's not like you wouldn't build those libraries anyway if you didn't get the wonder - all it does is give them to you a bit earlier. I've often left the Catacomb Libralus a pretty low priority - a nice wonder to build if there isn't anything better out there, but no great loss if an AI does manage to get it first.

As an aside, and hate to pester you, but did you get the PM with the flavor text suggestions I tossed you a while back? Just say so if you didn't like them or if there's something to be fixed, but I'd like to know if they were good or bad before writing any more. ^^;

You bring up a good point, maybe there should be a selectable tech victory too.

 

[Kael]

Another great looking Mod, Thanks Kael your work is incredible. For an alternative place to download your Mod I will host it on my website as well if thats okay? This will help get rid of the annoying ads and slow transfer speeds.

Thats fine with me, thanks.

 

[loki1232]

Would it still be impossible for units to get XP from haivng casted units kill enemies?

 

[loki1232]

Also, with the spellcasting, couldn't you anyways make the improvement that was previously on the space and dissappeared reappear as part of the summoning event?

 

[Corlindale]

I'd also like to see a tech-victory of some kind. Though the lack of one has actually forced me to play warlike games, and this has been a quite new experience to an old pacifist like me. All of my FFH games has been won by Conquest, but I've never done that in Vanilla. It's quite fun to try.

Admittedly, the Space Race type can be a bit boring, but it's nice to have an alternative to conquest. It shouldn't be all "Oh, not a whole lot of turns left, better get started on conquering the entire world...". And culture is not always viable, because you need to have planned for it in advance.
Perhaps it should be some kind of "Ascend to Godhood" (Yep, concept completely stolen from Alpha Centauri). That seems to be the highest of achievements in most fantasy worlds out there.
It would not have to be all tech and build, perhaps it could require a special type of resource only found in the darkest areas of Hell, or perhaps you'd need to complete a set of quests for it.

 

[Kael]

Would it still be impossible for units to get XP from haivng casted units kill enemies?

I think I know a way to get around that, but I haven't tested it.

 

[Kael]

Also, with the spellcasting, couldn't you anyways make the improvement that was previously on the space and dissappeared reappear as part of the summoning event?

The former tile improvement isn't passed to the function, and by the time the event kicks the improvement has already been destoryed so I can't query for it.

 

[loki1232]

The former tile improvement isn't passed to the function, and by the time the event kicks the improvement has already been destoryed so I can't query for it.

I know that in CIV III there were improvements you could build on top of each other (fort, barricade). Could you make the summmoning into improvements like these?

Basically having the summoning improvements be imprvoements that can be uilt on top of any others.

 

[loki1232]

Wait, can you build forts outside of your cultural borders? Becuase they trigger an event, don't they?

 

[Kael]

Wait, can you build forts outside of your cultural borders? Becuase they trigger an event, don't they?

Nope, you can only build forts within your cultural borders.

I know that in CIV III there were improvements you could build on top of each other (fort, barricade). Could you make the summmoning into improvements like these?

Basically having the summoning improvements be imprvoements that can be uilt on top of any others.

Nope, you can only have 1 improvement per tile.

 

[loki1232]

Hey! Can you make the amount needed to level different based on the unit?

What I don't understand is why the level and XP of the mages must be reset each time. What if While they were in your cities their XP charged up, and then once they had cast all the possible spells they would have to go recharge.

 

[Kael]

Hey! Can you make the amount needed to level different based on the unit?

What I don't understand is why the level and XP of the mages must be reset each time. What if While they were in your cities their XP charged up, and then once they had cast all the possible spells they would have to go recharge.

Because the AI wouldn't understand that it needed to recharge the units.

 

[loki1232]

Because the AI wouldn't understand that it needed to recharge the units.

I seem to just be running into brick wall after brick wall.

Could you make it so that whenever you are of a religion, your units get acess to new spells? You could allow this for some Disciple units. The order could allow them to use a spell whenever they got full XP, instead of leveling. The player would have to make this choice: Level or cast a spell. Then they would have to go fight more battles and gain more experience.

 

[loki1232]

Maybe the priests and disciples would have this ability too.

Also, if using the spell gave some XP, then units would be more likely to use it.

 

[loki1232]

Also, now that I think about it, another needed type of ship when the naval stuff is expanded is transport.
Maybe we could take away catapult barges, but on the other hand they might be the only type of shore bombardment available to non-mage cultures.

 

[Kael]

I seem to just be running into brick wall after brick wall.

Could you make it so that whenever you are of a religion, your units get acess to new spells? You could allow this for some Disciple units. The order could allow them to use a spell whenever they got full XP, instead of leveling. The player would have to make this choice: Level or cast a spell. Then they would have to go fight more battles and gain more experience.

Yeap, that could be done.