Modified Scenarios Workshop

[gapetit]

Do you dare to improve the units of the scenario, @Fairline ? Do you dare to improve the scenario, @tootall_2012 ? They would be the best team without a doubt...

 

[tootall_2012]

Do you dare to improve the units of the scenario, @Fairline ? Do you dare to improve the scenario, @tootall_2012 ? They would be the best team without a doubt...

Hi Gapetit,

Which scenario are you referring too? Do you mean the Crimean War one you just updated?

 

[gapetit]

Hi Gapetit,

Which scenario are you referring too? Do you mean the Crimean War one you just updated?

Hi, that's what I mean: Crimean War. Do you like the idea?

 

[tootall_2012]

Hi, that's what I mean: Crimean War. Do you like the idea?

Sorry for my confusion but didn't you already convert Paladin's Crimea scenario to ToT? Is there something missing to it that you feel needs to be added. To be honest I've never played it myself so I'm not knowledgeable about it.

Or did you mean to create an entirely new scenario? If so, I have to admit I'm not particularly familiar with the details of that conflict.

 

[Fairline]

Do you dare to improve the units of the scenario, @Fairline ? Do you dare to improve the scenario, @tootall_2012 ? They would be the best team without a doubt...

I can have a look at the units file, sure.

 

[gapetit]

Sorry for my confusion but didn't you already convert Paladin's Crimea scenario to ToT? Is there something missing to it that you feel needs to be added. To be honest I've never played it myself so I'm not knowledgeable about it.

Or did you mean to create an entirely new scenario? If so, I have to admit I'm not particularly familiar with the details of that conflict.

Yes, it's moved to ToT, with the addition of units and other changes, which I think give it realism, like typhus that can destroy any unit... But I like your scenarios because you have the ability to make them hugely playable, with events that keep the excitement going. I don't think I can improve it anymore (maybe just include the winter season...), but if anyone can add improvements it's you.

 

[gapetit]

I can have a look at the units file, sure.

Thank you Fairline

 

[Patine]

like typhus that can destroy any unit.

Even ships?

 

[tootall_2012]

Yes, it's moved to ToT, with the addition of units and other changes, which I think give it realism, like typhus that can destroy any unit... But I like your scenarios because you have the ability to make them hugely playable, with events that keep the excitement going. I don't think I can improve it anymore (maybe just include the winter season...), but if anyone can add improvements it's you.

Okay, I understand what you meant now. Thank you for the kind words.

Obviously when it comes to my own projects, I have the freedom to design them as I like and add the features that interest me.

On the other hand, when I work on ToT conversions, I try to be as careful and respectful of the original designers intentions and vision and therefore try to limit my interventions to the following in the hope that they play and remain as fateful to the originals as possible:

• Graphical updates that enhance the visual or historical appeal without affecting the base gameplay
• When there may have been obvious mistakes (like in the rules file, tech tree, or events for example) that are a detriment to the scenario
• Switching the standard Empire points to the city objective points method for calculating victory conditions when the former didn’t make sense (as I did with FMK’s Stalingrad or Jim Panse’s Siege of Sevastopol) or giving each power in the scenario their own specific set of victory conditions to enhance the playability of each faction (as I did in Mark Laanen’s Fall of the Roman Empire)
• Adding some minor optional events or units that can enhance the difficulty level for those players wanting a greater challenge without affecting the scenario’s overall gameplay (as I did recently in Aleksei Andrievski’s The Arab Conquest).

There is a scenario where I went somewhat beyond that point to render the game more accessible to players, and that is Captain Nemo’s Second Front where I combined the Allied and Allied Air Force civilizations into one power in a desire to bypass the need to play in Hot Seat mode.

Because I had added the NoStackKills ability to that scenario, I felt I had needed to add a few extra German bunker units to the map, through the events file, in order to return a modicum of play balance but not everyone approved of that decision. Thus, when I did a version 1.2, I gave the option for the players to play either the classic version with no stack kills off or with the new version with no stack kills on and with the few extra bunkers.

There are some conversions I’ve done where I went beyond and made even more substantial changes, case in point, The Roman Empire by Michael Jeszenka where I increased the size of the map to make the Parthian Empire bigger with extra cities and made substantial adjustments to the tech tree and a few other important changes but never released it because I felt my modifications where too significant to be considered a simple conversion and where rather really a Redux version and felt it crossed the line of what may be deemed acceptable for a conversion.

I’ve always wanted to work on a conversion of Jim Panse’s Götterdämmerung but feel it would require a full redux version. For one thing I would want to either combine the American/British/Russians into one power or use the Prof’s lua template to allow the human player to control any combination of these three powers. The scenario, would also need a serious play balance review because as it stands there is something like a 4 to 1 German numerical superiority in units over the combined Allied forces. But again never proceeded because it crossed that line (at most I would do a version just for myself).

As I indicated previously, I’m not particularly familiar with the Crimean War, but after a brief review of Paladin’s scenario, I feel it’s one where I would want to make changes that went beyond the simple ToT conversions (for one thing, at a minimum I would have combined the French and British into one power) and therefore find myself reluctant to tackle this one.

 

[Patine]

There are some conversions I’ve done where I went beyond and made even more substantial changes, case in point, The Roman Empire by Michael Jeszenka where I increased the size of the map to make the Parthian Empire bigger with extra cities and made substantial adjustments to the tech tree and a few other important changes but never released it because I felt my modifications where too significant to be considered a simple conversion and where rather really a Redux version and felt it crossed the line of what may be deemed acceptable for a conversion.

I've made a few modified versions of other designers' scenarios here and there that went quite a bit a bit beyond tweaking, but never released them, either. I fully understand thiis sentiment.

 

[gapetit]

Adding some minor optional events or units that can enhance the difficulty level for those players wanting a greater challenge without affecting the scenario’s overall gameplay (as I did recently in Aleksei Andrievski’s The Arab Conquest).

On this point alone, I find it very promising. Having a talented artist like Fairline is certainly a point that should certainly encourage you to tackle this and other projects.

As I indicated previously, I’m not particularly familiar with the Crimean War, but after a brief review of Paladin’s scenario, I feel it’s one where I would want to make changes that went beyond the simple ToT conversions (for one thing, at a minimum I would have combined the French and British into one power) and therefore find myself reluctant to tackle this one.

I think that a combination of British, French and Italian troops could make it very easy for a human player to conquer Crimea, but it can turn out, I have to say that most of your changes in the scenarios work very well. I'll be very happy if in the end you dare, whether it's redux or not. Thanks for the reply and for thinking about it.

 

[gapetit]

The conversion of a scenario is always complex, but I think that any improvement is always positive, taking into account that many scenarios are projects in many cases very simple at the level of units, events or graphics. The more complex a scenario is, the fewer changes or improvements needed should be... I don't wonder about the limits that a conversion should have, because except with one exception, I have never changed them with the objectives that the original designer was looking for.
My only ceiling is for example what graphics I have, and most of my conversions have always been influenced, in most cases, by Fairline units (or Tanelorn adaptations). In that case, I will always try to add as many units as I can, with the only limits of my knowledge. In the latter case, I think Tootall knows better and can improve it. In any case, it is your decision, and In any case, the limits will be yours. But if it is positive, it will be a joy for everyone.

 

[tootall_2012]

On this point alone, I find it very promising. Having a talented artist like Fairline is certainly a point that should certainly encourage you to tackle this and other projects.

I think that a combination of British, French and Italian troops could make it very easy for a human player to conquer Crimea, but it can turn out, I have to say that most of your changes in the scenarios work very well. I'll be very happy if in the end you dare, whether it's redux or not. Thanks for the reply and for thinking about it.

I won't make any promises as I'm often working on other projects, including at the present on another ancient scenario conversion. In the meantime, I would have to play the scenario first, at the very least, to understand what, if any quality of life improvements could be made and whether it's a project I would be interested on working on (most conversions I do typically take between 2-3 weeks, sometimes more, and as I explained previoulsy. I don't always release them, for a variety of reasons).

All the same, I'm curious, can you tell me what exactly is it about this particular scenario that seems to make you so passionate about it and what are some of the additions you think it could benefit from?

 

[gapetit]

I won't make any promises as I'm often working on other projects, including at the present on another ancient scenario conversion. In the meantime, I would have to play the scenario first, at the very least, to understand what, if any quality of life improvements could be made and whether it's a project I would be interested on working on (most conversions I do typically take between 2-3 weeks, sometimes more, and as I explained previoulsy. I don't always release them, for a variety of reasons).

All the same, I'm curious, can you tell me what exactly is it about this particular scenario that seems to make you so passionate about it and what are some of the additions you think it could benefit from?

I hadn't thought about it... It's not special and I'm not particularly passionate about it, but there's no other from that historical moment. And there are very good units already made. I think this conversion is more playable and complex than the original, which is not bad, but perhaps it could be more exciting and have more developments that make it more complex. And this has nothing to do with putting more terrain volume or units into the game... It takes a creator, which is what you are, and I think with talent, and one who cares about conversions. Logically, you may not be interested in this story, the scenario itself, or it would require an effort that would force you to abandon other projects that you like more. If so, that's okay too. By asking, nothing is lost

 

[tootall_2012]

I hadn't thought about it... It's not special and I'm not particularly passionate about it, but there's no other from that historical moment. And there are very good units already made. I think this conversion is more playable and complex than the original, which is not bad, but perhaps it could be more exciting and have more developments that make it more complex. And this has nothing to do with putting more terrain volume or units into the game... It takes a creator, which is what you are, and I think with talent, and one who cares about conversions. Logically, you may not be interested in this story, the scenario itself, or it would require an effort that would force you to abandon other projects that you like more. If so, that's okay too. By asking, nothing is lost

I guess I should have added when I select my own projects it’s typically because I feel passionate either about the subject matter or the design concepts I want to implement.

The same holds true when I single out a scenario for a conversion attempt, either it’s because I’m fascinated by the historical conflict or that I thought the scenario was so well made but felt its graphics may have been a little dated for my own personal tastes and therefore proceeded with the modifications for my own amusement. Afterwards, I figure, in most cases, it doesn’t hurt to share my conversions with the community, on the odd chance that others might appreciate the experience as well.

There are so many other designers scenarios, that you've converted over the years, that I might not have had the pleasure to play otherwise. So thank you for that!

I guess that’s all I have to say on this particular topic for now. Back to my current project!

 

[gapetit]

Without an author, the project to improve the Crimea 1853 scenario returns to my hands... I'm sorry for those of you who don't like what you've already done, but it can be an opportunity for you to give your opinion and contribute all the ideas you can think of. A collective Redux may come out after all.
My view of the Paladin's scenario is more positive than I remembered. Maybe more Western ships would be needed in the Black Sea to create more problems, but playing like Russia I'm quite satisfied, and in general I can say that I find it quite entertaining, although I destroyed the allied contingent in Crimea and can liberate even Sarajevo and I am not doing badly within the Anatolian peninsula, the remnants of the allies and especially the Turkish troops, are making good counterattacks, even reconquering some city (temporarily)... Is anyone else playing this scenario? With which army? Do you like it? Do you see anything you don't like?
I think that generating a winter will slow down the movements and give the AI more time to respond. Have you played it yet, @Fairline ? What do you think it should include?

 

[Fairline]

Without an author, the project to improve the Crimea 1853 scenario returns to my hands... I'm sorry for those of you who don't like what you've already done, but it can be an opportunity for you to give your opinion and contribute all the ideas you can think of. A collective Redux may come out after all.
My view of the Paladin's scenario is more positive than I remembered. Maybe more Western ships would be needed in the Black Sea to create more problems, but playing like Russia I'm quite satisfied, and in general I can say that I find it quite entertaining, although I destroyed the allied contingent in Crimea and can liberate even Sarajevo and I am not doing badly within the Anatolian peninsula, the remnants of the allies and especially the Turkish troops, are making good counterattacks, even reconquering some city (temporarily)... Is anyone else playing this scenario? With which army? Do you like it? Do you see anything you don't like?
I think that generating a winter will slow down the movements and give the AI more time to respond. Have you played it yet, @Fairline ? What do you think it should include?

I've just run a couple of turns as the British to get a feel for the units, and I think Tootal's point about combining the French and British civs is an especially important one - the French and British ships were getting in each others way making their way past Constantinople right from the outset. In reality both countries worked in fairly close collaboration in the invasion of Crimea and it would make a lot of sense to combine them.

 

[gapetit]

I've just run a couple of turns as the British to get a feel for the units, and I think Tootal's point about combining the French and British civs is an especially important one - the French and British ships were getting in each others way making their way past Constantinople right from the outset. In reality both countries worked in fairly close collaboration in the invasion of Crimea and it would make a lot of sense to combine them.

I have to admit that I like the original idea of embassies, but it is certainly possible to maintain and unify all the English and French (also Italian) war units into a single civilization, to avoid the problems of movement... I think that if you play with the Russians it can only be positive. You have to see how it turns out by playing with this new civilization and its development in Crimea. Another option would be to add by events directly the ships in the Black Sea... But let's try tootal's idea because English, French and especially Italian are not very playable. The Ottomans have so many units that I don't know if they can be very playable either... I hope to soon upload a new scenario with these changes

 

[gapetit]

I have taken advantage of the existence of an unused civilization, that of Babylon, to create a new civilization, which I have called the Alliance, and which includes the three allies: the French, the English, and the kingdom of Sardinia. I have generated a new city that I have called Embassy and I have turned it into an ally of the other three embassies that I have deactivated so that they cannot be played and that will only remain as decorations. The military branch of the alliance has already been realized, and all that remains is for me to generate all the units.

 

[gapetit]

I've eliminated the moving units from the Alliance and only kept the ships because I find it exciting for a human player to be able to move it to the Black Sea. Winter has yet to be included, but the shift to a single Alliance civilization, with changes to Events, is arguably over.