MOO2Civ
- Thread starter Agent327
- Start date
I understand constantly plugging the number of downloads, but c'mon, it's a beta work in progress.
Not that I'm complaining about the work being done on the mod itself. Everything you guys do is far beyond me right now in terms of the Python and XML languages, and I simply don't have the time to try and learn it enough to be of any help. And I won't go into how bad I am with graphics.
But I think more updates on progress made on the beta rather than updates on how many people have downloaded a very incomplete rendition of Master of Orion for Civilization.
And yes, btw, my very first thought the first time I saw Final Frontier was... MASTER OF ORION!!!! Where's the Fan made MOD?? I can't wait to get that mod, of all the mods there is to download.
Not that I'm complaining about the work being done on the mod itself. Everything you guys do is far beyond me right now in terms of the Python and XML languages, and I simply don't have the time to try and learn it enough to be of any help. And I won't go into how bad I am with graphics.
But I think more updates on progress made on the beta rather than updates on how many people have downloaded a very incomplete rendition of Master of Orion for Civilization.
And yes, btw, my very first thought the first time I saw Final Frontier was... MASTER OF ORION!!!! Where's the Fan made MOD?? I can't wait to get that mod, of all the mods there is to download.
First of all, welcome Tandur! You're not the first to complain about this habit of mine (and I'll admit it's a bit childish thing to do) 
, but seeing as I've been rather inactive creationwise lately and failing other news to report... (I've been sending NCCSavage some PMs regarding further progress, but he seems to have gone MIA - again. On vacation maybe? 
Last news was he made another fix/patch, but he hasn't uploaded anything yet, so...)
, but seeing as I've been rather inactive creationwise lately and failing other news to report... (I've been sending NCCSavage some PMs regarding further progress, but he seems to have gone MIA - again. On vacation maybe? Last news was he made another fix/patch, but he hasn't uploaded anything yet, so...)Ahh, the problems with online communities and the like. People disappearing. I feel your pain, I went through similar problems when the Starcraft and Warcraft III communities were still hopping. Although, to be sure, it had very little to do with modding (only one very good custom campaign ever came out of that, the Antioch Chronicles).
Yes, unfortunately, this happens quite often. Nobody here is paid for their work (hence why it's fan-created), and when forced to make a choice between real life and the online life of a video game community, most people go for real life. Or atleast, I hope they do.
Yes, unfortunately, this happens quite often. Nobody here is paid for their work (hence why it's fan-created), and when forced to make a choice between real life and the online life of a video game community, most people go for real life. Or atleast, I hope they do.
Hey JEELEN, i just wanted to let you know how cool i think your mod is. Like almost all 4Xers, i am a HUGE MOO2 fan, and this mod seems really awesome, because, amongst other things Final Frontier is SHORT. Just wanted to lend my moral support (i'm not much of a programmer or modeller unfortunately). KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK AND CONSTANT UPDATES!
Welcome, the1sean and thx for your support! 
Although it's beyond me why people keep talking about the mod being mine... It's NCCSavage's basically; I, with some help, just uploaded some patches, the latest of which (updating MOO2Civ to BtS 3.17) is once again NCCSavage's. 
Although it's beyond me why people keep talking about the mod being mine... It's NCCSavage's basically; I, with some help, just uploaded some patches, the latest of which (updating MOO2Civ to BtS 3.17) is once again NCCSavage's. Minor Annoyance
Deity
About governments. In MoO2 each race was stuck to the one government and it's upgrade, but with civ4's civic system that would be boring. I came up with two ways that races would still have a preferred government (other than just a favorite civic) and still have options. In FfH some civs have no upkeep cost for the compassion civics. In MoO2civ the government civics could have a cost associated with them but whatever government the races is supposed to have would be free. That way you could have a Klaxon democracy but it would be expensive to go against their nature. In their case, as well as with the Humans, probably not a good idea if you kept the MoO2 government having the same relative value. Another option would be to have the advanced form of a government only available to the race that would have it in MoO2. So anyone could be a democracy, but only humans could have a federation etc.
I think all the MoO2 government effects have Civ equivalents (Imperium's increased command points turns into reduced unit maintenance etc.) but the rate of assimilations doesn't directly translate. Better assimilation could mean less "We yearn to rejoin our homeland!" unhappiness. I don't know if the feudal effect of population instantly assimilating would work because other than emancipation civics can't effect other civs.
I also have what I thought was a good way to have actual religions in MoO2civ, but it would probably be too much work and people like having actual effects from the values system rather than just labels as religions.
I think all the MoO2 government effects have Civ equivalents (Imperium's increased command points turns into reduced unit maintenance etc.) but the rate of assimilations doesn't directly translate. Better assimilation could mean less "We yearn to rejoin our homeland!" unhappiness. I don't know if the feudal effect of population instantly assimilating would work because other than emancipation civics can't effect other civs.
I also have what I thought was a good way to have actual religions in MoO2civ, but it would probably be too much work and people like having actual effects from the values system rather than just labels as religions.
Go ahead. This is meant to be a discussion thread as well.
@Minor Annoyance: Civics hasn't been implemented really. Which other MOO2 equivalents did you have in mind? As regards your thoughts on religion/values: just post 'em, I'm curious.
PS: I'm keeping posts brief as I'm experiencing some really annoying spam lately.
@Minor Annoyance: Civics hasn't been implemented really. Which other MOO2 equivalents did you have in mind? As regards your thoughts on religion/values: just post 'em, I'm curious.
PS: I'm keeping posts brief as I'm experiencing some really annoying spam lately.
Thinker19930602
Ideas Guy (a.k.a.Thinker)
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2007
- Messages
- 216
Looks good.
It's about time someone made a mod-mod.
Now all we need is a Themed mod of this mod. Halo, anyone? Or how about Star Wars?
P.S. What does MOO2 stand for? Is it a cow reference?
It's about time someone made a mod-mod.
Now all we need is a Themed mod of this mod. Halo, anyone? Or how about Star Wars?
P.S. What does MOO2 stand for? Is it a cow reference?
MOO2: from the Master of Orion series (I-III, originally derived from the Starlords pc game). MOO2Civ already is a mod-mod for Final Frontier, one of the official mods in Beyond the Sword (BtS). BTW, there already is a Star Wars mod forum, which however hasn't gone beyond the planning stage last time I checked.
Anyway, on behalf of NCCSavage and all other contributors, thx for the praise. MOO2Civ (Patch4) is now fully compatible with the latest official patch for BtS as per patch 4b. You can always check for updates in post #1.
Anyway, on behalf of NCCSavage and all other contributors, thx for the praise. MOO2Civ (Patch4) is now fully compatible with the latest official patch for BtS as per patch 4b. You can always check for updates in post #1.
Minor Annoyance
Deity
Feudal/Confederation
Unhappiness without ground troops
2/3 ship cost (1/3 with confederation)
50% research penalty, which would be insane in civ so that could have to be much smaller.
Dictatorship/Imperium
10% bonus to spy defence (20% with Imperium)
Unhappiness without ground troops (Imperium gives a happiness bonus with troops instead)
Imperium gives 50% command points. That just means more free units like the Vassalage civic.
Democracy/Federation
10% spy defence penalty
50% bonus to tax income and research (75% with federation), which would be huge in civ so those numbers would have to change.
Unification/Galactic Unification
15% spying defence bonus
50% food and production bonus (100% with Galactic Unification)
Unification is also supposed to have no unhappiness but that would be too much in civ. So maybe it could just eliminate one kind of unhappiness. Like no unhappiness from buildings, just population. Or none from population, just from building. It's hard to know what's right at this point.
The back story of some of the races gave me an idea for something that could substitute for religion. The Trillarians believe they are descendants of a lost Antarian colony and that's why they are transdimensional. The Alkari's homeworld has artifacts of an Orion colony. In MoO3 the Ithku and I think the Etherians were experiments created by the Antarians and the Humans were said somewhere to believe themselves to be an unaltered species, but have been created by an unknown race as scouts before they attempt to colonize this galaxy, and the fourth humanoid race of MoO3 that was removed was created by another race to destroy the Humans.
So my idea was to have the possible origins of species be religions. The ones I came up with were Antarian descendant, Orion descendant, Antarian creation, Orion creation, Unknown creation, Divine creation and Independent evolution. The problem with that is in civ different religions always dislike each other and want others to convert to their religion, however it might be that a race would want to be the only descendants of the Orions so they should want others to convert away from their religion. Also, would Antarian creations and Antarian descendants really be enemies? So to avoid overhauling the way diplomacy and religion worked, cool though it might be, it would probably have to make the belief apply to the whole galaxy. Meaning if I was an Orion creationist, I believe all races were created by the Orions.
So that's my idea for MoO religions. It would be a neat flavour/backstory thing but I assume it would be a lot of work to replace a system that already works.
Especially your ideas on civics appear pretty well thought through and I see no reason why this can't be implemented. As concerns religions/values, that's a bit trickier, I think.
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to explain your ideas.
Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to explain your ideas.
Thinker19930602
Ideas Guy (a.k.a.Thinker)
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2007
- Messages
- 216
Can you post this in .zip format??? my computer doesn't recognize or use 7z files.
Minor Annoyance
Deity
It opens with winrar.
Winzip should work fine as well, but I added the following note to post #1:
PLEASE NOTE:
The files listed below are compressed (and may be unzipped) using 7-zip, which is freely downloadable here: http://www.7-zip.org/
PLEASE NOTE:
The files listed below are compressed (and may be unzipped) using 7-zip, which is freely downloadable here: http://www.7-zip.org/
Minor Annoyance
Deity
Neat. Something I forgot was the captured population assimilation speed. It was fastest for Democracy, very slow for Unification, and in the middle for Feudal and Dictatorship and all advanced governments are faster that the base government. "We yearn to join out homeland" anger and the percentage chance of revolt would be the equivalent. If you made dictatorship/feudal the standard the relative changes would be:
Democracy 50% decrease (25% Federation)
Confederacy, Imperium 50% decrease
Unification 150% increase (100% Galactic Unification)
I had another Idea for the Unification unhappiness immunity although it's harder to implement. In Fall from Heaven the Pillar of Chains wonder gives one hammer per unhappy citizen. The problem with unhappy citizens is not just that they produce nothing, it's that they eat and produce nothing so other others have to harvest more food which decreases their productivity. So what if you used the Pillar of Chains code but change it to food? It would neutralize the burden of feeding unhappy citizens. Dissatisfied Klackons would go home and tend to their personal hydroponics farms. Unhappy unification population would basically sit in reserve with little ill effect of having them. It accomplishes the spirit of having no unhappiness while still having reason to maintain happiness.
Hm. Not sure if assimilation really needs implementation this way. Cultural expansion works somewhat different in Civ than in MOO. (Although there is ofcourse the Assimilation mod...) The FfH Pillar of Chains - which seems out of context here - actually undoes the purpose of (cultural) assimilation, which, in the case of disgruntled citizens, is to hamper production, especially in a newly conquered star system.
Also, in general, discontented/sick citizens are supposed to be improductive, while still needing food. It's very Real Life and points to the need to keep overall population relatively healthy and happy.
I would consider the issue imperative, however, if gameplay feedback demands it. As is, such feedback is minimal, however.
Also, in general, discontented/sick citizens are supposed to be improductive, while still needing food. It's very Real Life and points to the need to keep overall population relatively healthy and happy.
I would consider the issue imperative, however, if gameplay feedback demands it. As is, such feedback is minimal, however.
