New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Thlayli]

Really hammers down the point of Africa being the Dark Continent, though.

 

[Disenfrancised]

Really hammers down the point of Africa being the Dark Continent, though.

A wrong point, since it is packed with state-like entities* and has at least some people and trade routes pretty much everywhere. They're just rather less sophisticated.

*As seen in my map earlier

 

[carmen510]

That map has some good points, like Asia, and some bad points, like Africa, France, and Central America. Mostly bad though. I say, you should just use the North King map if you don't like the glow.

 

[Abaddon]

I dislike the lack of a 1 pixel border. That is my opinion

 

[bombshoo]

This is a set of technological/cultural/economic rules I've drawn up. I'd like to hear some opinions. I wanted to find a way to try and actually show cultural achievements of players so people can have a way to "win" without being the biggest military power. I also wanted to try and develop a way to show technological advancement as not something under complete government control.

Spoiler :

Base Income: The income you receive before the factors of your economic model are taken into account. This is based on population size, industry, economic points from techs and cultural ranking.

Real Income: How much you receive after the factors of your economic model are taken into account. This is where all of your spending will be done from.

Economic Freedom Scale: How much control over your economy your government has. It is on a scale of -5 (Less free) to 5 (More Free). The less economic freedom you have, the more money from your total GDP your government can spend. The More economic freedom you have, the more willing private industry is to develop within your nation. I.E: Industrial levels go up on their own through economic freedom. Going too far in one direction or rapid back in forth changes can destabilize your nation.

-5_-4_-3_-2_-1_+0_+1_+2_+3_+4_+5
*1.5 *1.4 *1.3 *1.2 *1.1 +0 /1.1 /1.2 /1.3 /1.4 /1.5​

Education Level: How educated your population is. High education levels are good for economic and technological development. Education goes up 1 level by spending 10 economic points on it. Education Levels auto drop 1 every 5 turns. It is scored on a scale of 1-15. You cannot spend educational levels.You do not lose educational levels when a research needs it.

Industrial Level: Industry is decided by direct investment and/or economic freedom. A nation's industry goes up 1 level for every step TOWARDS economic freedom and down 1 level for every step AWAY from economic freedom. Industrial Levels can also be raised by 1 by spending 10 economic points towards this. Industrial Levels auto drop 1 every 5 turns. It is scored on a scale of 1-15. You cannot spend industrial levels. You do not lose industrial levels when a research needs it.

Stability Level: This is a measure of the likelihood your nation will collapse. Stability goes down from long periods of war, large or constant economic changes, constant regime changes and the presence of hostile factions with your nation. Stability goes up from having a higher culture then your neighbors, long periods of peace, a good economy and homogeneous populations. Is on a scale of 1-10. When your stability drops below 5, you lose 1 base economic point per stability level.

Culture: Culture is the objective score of your nation's achievements. A culture point is received every turn one of the levels (educational, industrial, stability) is at its max and also increases from certain researches. Although culture does not provide immediate military or scientific benefits, it does long term help your economy. Since culture points don't max out and also never go away, at the end of the game they will be one of the factors used to judge how well your nation did overall. +.5 times your ranking on the culture latter EP is added to your base income. So if you have the highest culture out of 21 nations, you get .5*21 EP a turn. This is meant to represent the income that products of your culture bring to your nation.

Example Stats

The Byzantine Empire
Ruler/Player: Emperor Josephus I/Bombshoo
Capital: Constantinople
Government/Controlling Faction: Constitutional Monarchy/Liberal Senate
Base EP Income: 17.5
Economic Freedom: +2
Real EP Income/Treasury: 15/0
Industrial Level: 4
Education Level: 3
Stability Level: 10
Culture Points/Rank: 1/1st
Army Size/Quality: N/A
Navy Size/Quality: N/A

Byzantine Base Economy=population size(1-20)+Industry(0.5*# of levels)+EP from techs+Culture(0.5*cultural rank) =5+2+0+10.5=17.5 The Byzantines have an economic freedom of +2, so you divide the 17.5 by 1.2 for a Real Income of 15.

Technological and Cultural Advancements in this rule set need at least one of three things to complete. A certain Education Level or higher (Decided by education level), A certain Industrial Level or higher (Decided by economic freedom OR spending to upgrade it), and/or Government Funding (What the government must spend on the project from its Real Income. Not always required). Once all requirements are met, the advancement becomes available. If you have high enough Education and Industrial Levels you automatically receive the advancement, you do not even have to request it. This is to represent advancements developed by individuals and the private sector. Most technologies are cut in half in requirements after the first few nations have completed it.

So for example, we have Nuclear Weapons

Nuclear Weapons- Allows the creation of the first atomic weapons.
Requires: EL 15, IL 15, GF 150

Jet Engine-Allows the creation of Jet Aircraft for military and private use. +2 to EP to first researcher. +1 to base economy each additional. Tech cost cut in half after first research. Allows creation of Jet Fighters and Jet Bombers
Requires: EL 10, IL 12

Impressionist Artwork-Creates widespread appreciation for Impressionist Painting and Sculpture. +5 CPs to first researcher. +2 CPs to each additional. Allows access to more advanced areas of the Impressionist Movement such as Impressionist Music, Impressionist Cinema and Impressionist Literature.
Requires: EL 10, IL 5

 

[Dachs]

I dislike the lack of a 1 pixel border. That is my opinion

Yes, and a one-pixel border can make viewing certain shorelines which are by necessity of an extremely high resolution confusing and/or difficult, which isn't an opinion. There are pros and cons.

 

[Abaddon]

Only if you are an idiot. We have real maps to refere to. NESing maps do not need to be so accurate. Again, that is my opinion only

 

[carmen510]

@bombshoo: Very nice ruleset. However, the following critiques:

1. I assume you cannot go into the negatives in industrial level, correct? Please elaborate this part.
2. Homogeneous populations? So if I killed all the British in Canada or Christians in America, that would be fine?
3. Shouldn't education level and industrial level investment be different for different nations? I wouldn't invest the same in Albania's industry as Britain's for example.
4. I don't think Impressionism should be a tech, after all, we didn't exactly invest in artists in order to get these paintings.
5. When will you put up the military rules? Looks very interesting.

 

[Abaddon]

AbNESVI Ruleset:

Spoiler :

Tribe Name: Azawakii
Cacique Name: Hoemtep
Population: Petite (2)
Magic: 1/0
Magic Users: Hoemtep
-Magic Spells: Fireball (1MP)
Armed Men: 2,000
Military prowess : Pathetic
Infrastructure: Dirt Paths

Tribe Name: Please name your Tribe
Cacique Name: The leader of your people

Population controls the limits of your nation, an how much economic power you have. To increase your population level, you either have to settle a new town, or capture one from your neighbours. It costs 5EP to settle a new town. The various levels are shown below. The first number is the economic points you recieve at that level. The second number is how many towns you need to be that size:

Tiny (1/1)-Petite (2/3)-Small (3/6)-Medium (4/10)-Large (5/15)-Huge (6/21)-Gargantuan (7/27)-Monstrous (9/34)

Magic:

The amount of magic points you are generating each turn, and how many are stored. You gain one MP for every turn a totem is under your control and is undisturbed by others. To construct a new totem you must sacrifice one of your towns, and write a decent/gory story about it

Magic Users:

To wield magic, you need people trained in the art. They cost 1MP and 1EP, and will take 3 turns to be trained. From then on they can wield any of the magic spells already learnt by your tribe, as well as creating one of their own.

Magic Spells:

This lists any spells a tribe has learnt along with their costs. Greater description will be found in the opening posts.

Armed Men. It costs 1EP to train and equip a mob of 1000 men.

Military prowess costs 1EP to raise the training level of 1000 men. You can only train to Great level, the higher levels come with battle experience. You can raise the entry training level of your tribe by paying EP equal to your tribes size. The various levels are:

Mob-Pathetic-Poor-Tolerable-Normal-Better-Good-Great-Mighty-Juggernaut

Quality of Life

A good quality of life is invaluable, aiding everything from army movement to culture cohesiveness to government efficiency. Various things will effect your tribesmen's quality of life level, if it is below tolerable, you will not be able to settle a new town. To upgrade, total cost is equal to the number of towns you have. The different levels are:

None-Poor-Pathetic-Barely Tolerable-Tolerable-Improving-Good-Great-Excellent


Tributary Tribes

Tribute tribes will be required to forfeit 1EP per turn to the the tribe which they owe it too. In return the nation recieving tribute is automatically at war with any nation that attacks the tributary. A tribute state may elect not to pay its master causing an automatic war to occur between the two tribe. A master tribe can elect to release a tribute tribe with no further consquences past the cancellation of all obligations held by both parties.

Comments greatly desired

 

[sp1023]

A mob? Are we gangsters in Jamaica, now?

 

[bombshoo]

@bombshoo: Very nice ruleset. However, the following critiques:

1. I assume you cannot go into the negatives in industrial level, correct? Please elaborate this part.
2. Homogeneous populations? So if I killed all the British in Canada or Christians in America, that would be fine?
3. Shouldn't education level and industrial level investment be different for different nations? I wouldn't invest the same in Albania's industry as Britain's for example.
4. I don't think Impressionism should be a tech, after all, we didn't exactly invest in artists in order to get these paintings.
5. When will you put up the military rules? Looks very interesting.

1. Its hard to imagine how a nation can have negative industry in real life, so yeah you can't go lower then 0. Trust me, 0 would be bad enough.
2. This is not always a factor, it simply helps. While genocide might actually increase stability in certain situations (very rare ones), the other effects of it (economic downturn, large scale population movements) would probably cause an overall decrease. Homogeneous population is more just meant to reflect the natural stability of Nation-States such France and Germany over artificial unions such as Somalia and Yugoslavia.
3. You are probably right but I also would like to keep this simple and relatively even for all players. I suppose I could enter a staggering system where the higher your industrial or education level is the more it costs to grow, but I think a simpler solution would just be to start out the less industrialized/educated nations with lower numbers from the beginning. In the end things like a small population or low culture rating will make your overall industry/education more difficult to control.
4. If you notice I called it an "Advancement" and not a tech. Cultural advancements will be things like Impressionism, Jazz, Sitcoms and add to your nation's overall culture. They are not researched exactly, but instead they come on their own once your nation has high enough Education or Industrial Level (Which you need for the military and science techs anyways). Very few, if any of them will require government funding.
5. I have not decided on the military rules yet. I am thinking I want something pretty basic here though.

Magic:

The amount of magic points you are generating each turn, and how many are stored. You gain one MP for every turn a totem is under your control and is undisturbed by others. To construct a new totem you must sacrifice one of your towns, and write a decent/gory story about it

Seems like there should be a peaceful alternative to this. I am also a little unclear on magic spells without an example.

 

[Abaddon]

A mob? Are we gangsters in Jamaica, now?

a mob, not THE Mob. Simply implys untrained and unorganised.

Seems like there should be a peaceful alternative to this. I am also a little unclear on magic spells without an example.

Yeah, i'll add exmples, everyone is currently making up their starting spell and I am trying to balance them.

There will be lots of totems in the game, but I suppose there should be a way other than through blood..

 

[sp1023]

I assume that the men recruited automatically come at mob level, if so, shouldn't the cost to upgrade them get higher every once in a while?

And how is income determined? The size stats seems a bit ineffectual, the Sahara has a relatively few amount of towns spread across it's huge area.

 

[Abaddon]

I assume that the men recruited automatically come at mob level, if so, shouldn't the cost to upgrade them get higher every once in a while?

Well at a certain level, it can only be raised higher through experience in battle.

And how is income determined? The size stats seems a bit ineffectual, the Sahara has a relatively few amount of towns spread across it's huge area.

The island is bounteous, there are no stretches of wasteland. The more towns you have, the more economic power you have, but also a larger size in which to govern. You need to settle a new town to grow both economically and in size, the larger, the higher the costs. This will stop larger nations "running away with it" I hope we will not see massive disparagy in economic power for quite a while into the game. MP is where the fight will be.

 

[Terrance888]

I have a New NES Ready. It is after a BT of ChuckMRTOR and starts at After Great War. I will used a revised version of Crezch's Ruleset.

A Few Nations:

Yahmaka Empire
Union of African States
Great Empire of the Kongo
Mediteranean Union
Aritte of Franks
Aritte of Teutons
Aritte of Bulgarians
Aritte of Slav
Aritte of Greeks
Great Monaude Empire
Empire of Sumaria
Empire of Mohenjo-Daro
Uberdom of Thais
Uberdom of Bengal
Uberdom of Japan
Uberdom of Xia
Uberdom of Song

North American Union
Beaver Empire
Union of Natives
Empire of Louisiana
Canadian Empire
Mayan Empire
Incan Empire
Amazonian Empire
Churgi Empire

))

 

[Abaddon]

What is the above post for?

 

[Terrance888]

(I want to know interest from old players and any suggestions.
If you want I can post a history that caused above nations.)

 

[Abaddon]

I would want a map.

 

[Terrance888]

I'll use Crezch's Map as my base: I like how it is a little bigger and has the Swiss lakes! (good for my positioning) Map will be posted here. I will not color all the small islands until I know I have interest.

 

[sp1023]

TBH, Charles, we've all played many MRTOR's and there still is one running. Perhaps you can pick a different setting, maybe a different map of some sort? I'm getting bored with earth.