New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Dachs]

Well, I do feel that having a highly defined tech-tree may ruin some people's ideas. I think I feel like Adrogans does, and like a certain degree of freedom in regards to how I can customize my nation, and generally, I find that the tech tree is what enables you, or disables you, from doing a lot of things.

The reason a tech tree is irrelevant before about the First World War or so - maybe, if you reeeeally push it, the middle of the nineteenth century - is because states did not, as a rule, invest any real sum of money or amount of resources in making technological progress. The frigate and the Prussian needle gun were not developed in government labs. So already you have problems of agency: the player is not actually researching anything, unless you decouple the player from the state, which has its own problems. And then there's the issue of technological advantages not, um, usually having a major impact on stuff. Nukes, yeah, definitely, but, say, a new variety of tank, or a basic variety of solar panel? Not so much. It's unnecessary complexity that would have an unhistorical effect if taken into account by the mod(s) with anything approximating the amount of interest players are likely to put into it. Of course, you might be fine with unhistorical effects, but whatever.

 

[TheLizardKing]

If I may, allow me make a suggestion: don't do this kind of thing. I understand that you want to capture the aesthetic of Fallout, but there's a reason that none of these kinds of things existed, and it's because there's no compulsive engineering or economic reason for doing it, and a vast number of safety drawbacks. Even in the late 1950s to early 1960s it was understood that the "Age of the Atom" would never really work.

There is, for example, no such thing as an atomic battery (with the exception of perhaps a radioisotope generator, which is not at all the same thing) and why should there be when you can just hook a normal battery up to a nuclear power grid? Why put a fission reactor (which can only be made as small as roughly a garbage can) in a computer or a car or a radio and have all the heavy shielding and cooling problems (not to mention security, safety, and environmental risks) associated when you can just use the power grid system used in real life?

Fallout uses SCIENCE! not science. It came up with fictional technology because it was hearkening back to a literary theme and a certain kind of worldbuilding which demanded retrofuturistic technology that could survive hundreds of years of neglect. You're doing something completely different, from the looks of it, so you don't need to follow their example.

The furthest the fission trend might go under ideal circumstances is a comprehensive breeder-based power grid, nuclear trains and a focus on public transport over private transport, and maybe certain kinds of heavy-lift aerospace applications (NERVA, Project Orion, Project Pluto).

Some ideas of LoE's are being taken into consideration, and others aren't. I do want an atomic themed NES, at least the cultural and political situation it created. At the same time, no actual advancements made in the science will be present at mod start.

Some things, like nuclear radios and the like, won't necessarily be included. However, fake science stuff, like Atomic trains can be created, though not necessarily. This is by no means supposed to be realistic, and to that extent, it's really just supposed to be some sort of (albeit crappy) reason for dramatic scientific advancement in an NES. I do appreciate your response though, and am interested in your opinions. What exactly would you use/apply, in this NES?

Thanks a lot!

-TLK

EDIT:

The reason a tech tree is irrelevant before about the First World War or so - maybe, if you reeeeally push it, the middle of the nineteenth century - is because states did not, as a rule, invest any real sum of money or amount of resources in making technological progress. The frigate and the Prussian needle gun were not developed in government labs. So already you have problems of agency: the player is not actually researching anything, unless you decouple the player from the state, which has its own problems. And then there's the issue of technological advantages not, um, usually having a major impact on stuff. Nukes, yeah, definitely, but, say, a new variety of tank, or a basic variety of solar panel? Not so much. It's unnecessary complexity that would have an unhistorical effect if taken into account by the mod(s) with anything approximating the amount of interest players are likely to put into it. Of course, you might be fine with unhistorical effects, but whatever.

Oh, I'm sorry mate, I misunderstood your original statement. Your point does make sense, and I suppose you're correct about a lot of technological advances not having a real effect on the NES as a whole. A big reason, in all honesty, I'm throwing these extra techs in, or at least some of them, is to prevent a mad-dash to the Nuke, or at least the ICBM.

 

[Starlife]

Here is another military system I came up with. I think I actually like it more than my first one. Comments, suggestions.

Spoiler :

M i l i t a r y​

There are four types of military categories: Militia, Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, and Galleys. Typically, Militia are composed of conscripted soldiers. Light Infantry typically consist of companies of archers or some sort of ranged units to supplement more highly disciplined, trained soldiers. Heavy Infantry is much like Light Infantry, yet the troops are more heavily armored and usually contain siege weapons (ideal for attacking castles and settlements). Galleys are warships or transport ships.

Training Troops

Towns can only train Militia. Cities can train all troop types. Castles can train only unique companies, but they begin with Elite status.

Below are race-specific troop descriptions. You have quite a bit of freedom in describing the elements included within your kingdom's army, but below is a good guide to work off of.

High Men armies usually contain heavily armored pikemen and paladins, supplemented with archers. Their siege weapons are usually catapults or trebuchets.
Barbarian troops are composed of berserkers and other quick and fierce soldiers. Their speed and aggressiveness is their advantage.
High Elven brigades are teeming with skilled woodsmen, talented longbowmen, and noble Elven lords.
Dark Elven forces typically include stealthy nightblades, ghostly nightmares, and warlocks.
Dwarven armies usually include durable axemen, axe-throwers, and powerful steam cannons for their siege elements.
Goblin troops usually consist of aggressive, lightly-armored war parties, swordsmen, archers, and war trolls for their siege capabilities.
Halfling armies often include dagger-throwing ranged units, swordsmen, and highly magic-resistant troops.
Orc armies can often include heavily-armored wyvern riders, shock troops, and other fierce hand-to-hand combat fighters.
Gnoll forces typically consist of lightning-fast wolf riders and powerful macemen.
Beastmen brigades often include stalwart centaurs, ferocious manticores, and strong-hoofed minotaurs.

Training companies is a straight-forward process. Each company costs a certain amount of gold to purchase, and another amount of gold to maintain. Each company has a certain amount of recruits. Each company has a certain status report. Here is an example:

Spoiler :

High Elven Light Infantry (Elite / Veteran / Normal / Damaged)
1,000 trained soldiers
40 gold to purchase
20 gold to maintain

Notice I put "High Elven" in front of the company. This is to distinguish the racial type of company. When I see High Elven, it indicates that the company probably has skilled woodsmen and archers.

Elite: Either the company was trained in a castle, or has experienced many battles.
Veteran: The company is in exceptional condition. It has fought well in a battle or maybe a few battles, is well-fed, rested, and so on.
Normal: This is how companies begin when they are first trained.
Damaged: Troops are wounded or dead and the company must be healed or rest for a long time.

Unit Listing

Standard Units

Spoiler :

Militia (Elite / Veteran / Normal / Damaged)
1,000 conscripted soldiers
20 gold to purchase
10 gold to maintain

Light Infantry (Elite / Veteran / Normal / Damaged)
1,000 trained soldiers
40 gold to purchase
20 gold to maintain

Heavy Infantry (Elite / Veteran / Normal / Damaged)
1,000 trained soldiers
60 gold to purchase
30company gold to maintain
Defense and Anti-Cavalry Specialty

Galleys (Elite / Veteran / Normal / Damaged)
10 constructed ships
100 gold to purchase
50 gold to maintain

Unique Units

Every castle you encounter in the world of Ethereal will be able to train its own unique company or military element. Every castle's specific company is truly unique - there is no other unit quite like it. Castles can only train their specific unique company. Because your Citadel acts as a castle, your Citadel is also allowed a single unique company, designed by you the player before the start of the game. Unique companies can have unique abilities standard companies do not have.

Summoning Creatures

You may want to research some kind of summoning spell. Summoned creatures can only exist as long as you have the mana to maintain them. They are usually extremely powerful, but cost a lot of mana to maintain. Here is an example of a Level 1 Summoning spell, to give you an idea of what kind of summoning spells you can create.

Spoiler :

Summon Fire Elemental
Summon
A smoldering, walking being of fire.
100 mana to cast, 100 mana per turn to maintain

What if I wanted to make a summon that isn't quite as powerful as a fire elemental? Then it will cost less.

Spoiler :

Summon Gargoyles
Summon
Call forth a group of gargoyles to fly for your empire.
50 mana to cast, 50 mana per turn to maintain

A Level 2 summoning spell might look something like this:

Spoiler :

Summon Death Knights
Summon, Curse Land
Bring a small company of undead knights to fight in your army and bring pestilence to your enemies.
300 mana to cast, 300 mana per turn to maintain

 

[Symphony D.]

This is by no means supposed to be realistic, and to that extent, it's really just supposed to be some sort of (albeit crappy) reason for dramatic scientific advancement in an NES. I do appreciate your response though, and am interested in your opinions. What exactly would you use/apply, in this NES?

I'd make three comments:

(1) Scientific advancement in the second half of the 20th century was overwhelmingly derived from computers, and the computer was developed largely in response to nuclear weapons modeling and targeting, among other things. It'd be very hard to achieve greater scientific advance in a shorter time period than what actually happened 1945–present. Perhaps a decade faster at most, getting very lucky. More likely is that it will be skewed into different areas.

(2) The technology you're talking about has limited means of altering the trajectory or arc of societies except in certain key regions, and is unfortunately very well documented. This is not like, say, conjecturing about an FTL drive. Pretty much everything that can be done with fission reactors has been done. Now you can certainly make nuclear trains and nuclear-electric rockets, and these will have some effects (it would have been possible, for example, to go to Saturn in 1970 with Project Orion; global climate change will be rather more strongly curtailed although not wholly eliminated). The follow-on effects from these (access to the outer Solar System allows for the possibility of say, helium-3 mining if there is more funding into fusion; planetary colonization along the way as "rest stops" becomes possible; Orion vehicles make ICBMs laughably obsolete, etc.) could result in major divergence, but would take quite awhile to "butterfly" into existence. However, to get plausible outcomes, you still need to treat the initial technology somewhat seriously. This means approaching it realistically, even when using it in forms it was not used for in reality.

(3) Generally, keeping the technology closer to reality is going to benefit you as a moderator, because a lot of literature on this stuff exists and your players can't abuse it that much. Suppose, for some reason, your atomic computers become ubiquitous. Then suppose some player wants to write a computer virus that induces them to meltdown. Now, you could make an in-universe decision that these computers aren't networked and so that can't happen, but inevitably someone will want to network computers. It'd be much simpler to have computers powered by centralized atomic power plants and have the power piped to them. Players second-guessing reality is much harder than them second-guessing the moderator.

You can "freeze" the 1950s to get that Dr. Strangelove / 2001 vibe going into the future indefinitely, but a lot of that has less to do with the ubiquity of nuclear technology, and more to do with key implementations of it (particularly public transport and rocket technology) and how that influences society and geopolitics. If you want it to make much sense (and not be a headache), you sort of have to treat it plausibly.

Alternately, you can go the SCIENCE! route, but then it's not really going to make any real-world sense and you can just do whatever you want, and can ignore all of this.

e: I'd also note, since I see you have a game thread up: you basically can't delay nuclear weapons, at least theoretically, while having modern physics. Fission and fusion naturally fall out of explorations into atomic theory and are a step on the way to quantum physics (and hence, modern technology). It is literally impossible to have those sciences and not have some idea of the potential existence of nuclear weapons. It is highly unlikely that someone seeking a military advantage would not have funded their investigation, particularly in a geopolitically unstable climate.

 

[LDiCesare]

There are four types of military categories: Militia, Light Infantry, Heavy Infantry, and Galleys.

It's nicer, particularly the description that each race's light infantry is different from its neighbour's, but now you lack cavalry. At the very least, you should have a infantry/cavalry distinction. Militia can always be viewed as totally untrained light (or even heavy) infantry. Skirmishers are needed if you want to keep some of the flavour you wrote.
Also the race unit descriptions are nice, but I'd detail them more, since it's mostly flavor. I also think halfling dagger throwers are silly. They will never have enough range or penetration power, to be of any effect in a mass battle.
Also, you wrote about warlocks. These are arcane units not listed in your breakdown. You should decided how to handle wizards. They might be seen as ranged units, or units able to cast battlefield spells. Or both, whatever you like, but you'll have to decide who can do battlefield magic, if it's available at all.
For instance (I added some descriptions to your list, to point out some blanks):

Spoiler :

Race : light infantry / heayy infantry / cavalry / siege / skirmishers
High Men : archers / pikemen / paladins / trebuchets / (javelineers)
Barbarian : (archers) / berserkers / (none?) / (catapults) / (axe throwers)
High Elven: longbowmen/ (swordsmen) / elven lords / (catapults) / woodsmen
Dark Elven: warlocks / (swordsmen)/ ghostly nightmares / (catapults) / stealthy nightblades
Dwarven: (crossbowmen) / durable axemen / (none?) / powerful steam cannons / axe-throwers
Goblin: archers / swordsmen / (worg-riders) / war trolls / (slingers?).
Halfling: (archers) / swordsmen / (none?) / (catapults) / (slingers)
Orc: (archers) / (spearmen) / heavily-armored wyvern riders / (catapults) / (axe throwers).
Gnoll: (archers) / macemen / lightning-fast wolf riders / (none?) / (javelineers).
Beastmen: centaur (archers) / (halberdiers) / manticores / minotaurs / (javelineers)

 

[Northen Wolf]

@Starlife
I would add a recruit status (recruit units cheaper and fast but they are much weaker).

Also all units could use a description as people tend to view "infantry" quite differently, without saying that to you This is a very good example of what I mean. It'd be good idea to make your unit buying thingy look like this:

Light Infantry (Elite / Veteran / Normal / Damaged)
1,000 trained soldiers
40 gold to purchase
20 gold to maintain
Light Infantry typically consist of companies of archers or some sort of ranged units to supplement more highly disciplined, trained soldiers.

 

[Starlife]

I've done a huge turn in terms of what I want. I feel that my last proposed system took the soul out of my original concept completely. I really want units to be designed by players, and I want each race to have a default unit that can be trained from cities, while other unique units can be obtained through Castles. This is what I want. This is my concept. And I want to keep it. I feel my generalizing militaries in a fantasy game, it is sucking the soul out of the fantasy genre. Highly customizable armies is really what I want. A unit in this new system can be 100 troops, or 1 single individual. Thanks to Shadowstrike, I received this system and I have tweaked it greatly for my purposes.

Still yet to be posted here are rules relating to Summoning spells. But I am thinking summoned creatures are designed through a similar system, but with completely different traits to choose from. I also need to add naval units and siege units. They will be listed as traits, most-likely.

Spoiler :

M i l i t a r y​

Every player is allowed to create 3 unique units to begin their adventure as Wizard and commander. Creating units is a highly customizable process. Below is a list of traits that you can add to a unit. Costs in gold are cumulative. You can add as many traits as you want, but the costs will rise for every trait added. The only section that is required is Quality. All other sections are optional. The size of the unit, from a single individual to several hundred men, does not alter the effectiveness of the individual unit compared to units with similar components. Yet typically, these prices may indicate the cost of about 100 men. Such description is up to you, though.

You may only pick 1 trait within each section. Your unit must always cost at least 2 gold. Maintenance for the unit is always half of the buying price.

Quality
Conscript: 0.5
Trained: 1
Veteran: 2
Elite: 4

Weapons
Clubs, daggers, rocks: 0
Spears: 0.5
Short Swords: 0.5
Staves: 0.5
Pikes (or other polearms, lances): 1
Swords: 2
Axes (and other heavy weapons): 2
Shortbows: 1
Longbows: 2
Crossbows: 3

Armor
Leather (light): 0.5
Shield: 0.5
Chainmail (medium): 2
Plate (heavy): 4
Netheryl (resist magic): 10

Mounts
Packhorses: 1
Noncombatant (movement, but not combat): 2
Combatant (movement and combat): 3
Flying noncombatant: 6
Flying Combatant: 8

Magic
Weak: 2
Skilled: 5
Expert: 15

Remember each creature has 2 hands. That means 2 weapons or 1 weapon and 1 shield.

Your three initial units can be whatever you want, and they will cost the amount of your traits added up. In addition, the lower the price your unit is, the faster you can recruit it.

1-5 gold: You can recruit and move the unit in the same orders.
6-10: 1 turn to recruit, move it on the next turn.
11-20: 2 turns to recruit, move it on the 3rd turn.
21-30: 3 turns to recruit, move it on the 4th turn.
31-40: 4 turns to recruit, move it on the 5th turn.
41-50: 5 turn to recruit, move it on the 6th turn.

Your initial 3 unique unit types can only be recruited at your Citadel.

Military Magic

It is up to you to describe what the magical powers of your military units are like, but typically magic is a free-form force. Weak magic can be used to perform minor spells directly around that unit. Skilled magic can attack other units, and use magic as a weapon or as a shield. Expert magic can be used as a siege weapon, generating massive fireballs to strike a castle's walls. You can detail this in your unit's role and description.

Racial Advantages

Different races provide different advantages to soldiers. Note: Your unit must always cost at least 2 gold, even with racial advantages.

High Men: Pikes/Polearms are 0 gold. Plate Armor is 2 gold. Combatant Mounts are 1 gold.
Barbarians: Leather and Shield are 0 gold. Swords and Axes/Heavy Weapons are 0 gold.
High Elves: Skilled Magic is 2 gold. Longbows are 0 gold.
Dark Elves: Skilled Magic is 0 gold.
Dwarves: Axes/Heavy Weapons are 0 gold. Plate Armor is 1 gold.
Goblins: Crossbows are 0 gold. Leather and Shield are 0 gold. Short Swords and Spears are 0 gold.
Halflings: Netheryl is 5 gold.
Orcs: Flying Combatants are 4 gold. Chainmail is 1 gold.
Gnolls: Combatant Mounts are 0 gold. Axes/Heavy Weapons are 0 gold.
Beastmen: Noncombatant Mounts are 0 gold. Skilled Magic is 2 gold.

Towns
Towns cannot train any units. They are essentially small farming or mining hamlets that only exist for you to obtain gold from. Typically, towns are protected by nearby cities or castles.

Cities
Every Wizard is capable of tapping into race-specific advantages. Once you have captured a city, that city's generic racial unit will be available to you for training.

Castles
Castles are a bit more flexible. When you capture a castle, you will receive access to that Castle's unique unit, which can only be trained in that castle, and which receives a discount on price (the discount on price is to allow you to add non-racial-specific-advantages to your unit but still pay a low price for the additions). Each castle has a unique discount. You can either: 1. Keep that castle's unique unit and train it as-is or, 2. Disband all of that unique unit and create your own unique unit for that race, using the race-specific advantages. If you disband and create your own unit for this castle, the unit must be worth the same amount of gold their unique unit was worth (without discount). (For example, the High Elven castle of Delorath has a unique unit called Lydia's Firestar Rangers, which can be trained for 10 gold - you can disband this unit and create your own, but that new unit must be worth 10 gold.) In addition, if you disband a castle's unique unit and create your own unique unit, you will no longer receive a discount!

Citadel
Units of specific races can only be trained in their specific settlement (city or castle). So, for example, if you capture a High Elven city, you cannot train that city's unique unit in your Citadel - it must be trained in the city you captured. Even if you capture two High Elven castles, you cannot train the 1st High Elven castle's unique unit in the 2nd High Elven castle. Each castle has its own unique unit.

Race-specific advantages are NOT available to your entire military. They are only available for the specific unique unit that a city or castle has given you the ability to train. Exception: Your 3 initial units can all have the race-specific advantages of your Wizard's race.

Your Citadel is basically a powerful castle. Therefore, units trained and belonging to your Citadel receive a discount. Each unit from your Citadel can pick a trait or a series of traits worth 2 gold for free (in addition to the racial advantages you already have).

Advancing in Level
Your Wizard has three levels: Mage, Archmage, and Demigod, as previously mentioned in these rules. As a Mage, your Citadel can train 3 unique units. As an Archmage, you can design a new unit to be trained in your Citadel. As a Demigod, you can design and train yet another additional unit to be trained in your Citadel.

Generic Race-Specific Units

Cities can train "generic race-specific units". These are units that all cities of that race can train. This does not include your Citadel or castles.

Race-Specific Units

Spoiler :

Spoiler High Men :

High Men Lancers
50 lancers
Veteran (2)
Polearms (0)
Plate Armor (2)
Combatant Mounts (1)
5 gold to train, 2.5 to maintain

The High Men of Ethereal protect their cities with skillful lancers. They are carefully trained from a young age to become soldiers of their city. The result is a group of stalwart protectors of the human world.

Spoiler Barbarians :

Barbarian Berserkers
100 berserkers
Veteran (2)
Swords (0)
Heavy Weapons (0)
Leather (0)
2 gold to train, 1 to maintain

The coastal Barbarians are known for their fierce and fast berserkers. These shock troops are trained for a small price and are armed with one weapon for each hand. They leave nothing in their path.

Spoiler High Elves :

High Elven Rangers
25 rangers
Veteran (2)
Longbows (0)
Leather (0.5)
Short Swords (0.5)
Skilled Magic (2)
5 gold to train, 2.5 to maintain

The rangers of Ethereal's forest are skilled archers, agile swordsmen, and capable of Elven feats of magic. They have been raised in the forest and they know it well.

Spoiler Dark Elves :

Dark Elven Warlocks
1 warlock
Veteran (2)
Short Swords (0.5)
Leather (0.5)
Skilled Magic (0)
3 gold to train, 1.5 to maintain

The warlocks of the dark woods are capable of powerful feats of magic that can cripple their enemies and protect their friends. Beware when approaching a city of the Dark Elves.

Spoiler Dwarves :

Dwarven Heavy Axemen
50 axemen
Veteran (2)
Axes (0)
Plate Armor (1)
3 gold to train, 1.5 to maintain

The Dwarven axemen are strong soldiers with high endurance, capable of carrying plate armor as if it is but a feather. And they arm themselves with large axes forged by the most skilled of blacksmiths.

Spoiler Goblins :

Goblin Infantry
100 soldiers
Veteran (2)
Crossbows (0)
Short Swords (0)
Leather (0)
2 gold to train, 1 to maintain

The cunning Goblins in all of their industrial desires have greatly utilized the deadly crossbow. These cheap Goblin infantry are found pouring out of mountainsides and defending their smoggy cities.

Spoiler Halflings :

Halfling Adventurers
5 adventurers
Veteran (2)
Leather (0.5)
Short Swords (0.5)
Netheryl (5)
8 gold to train, 4 to maintain

Halflings have long been known as a folk to be able to endure quite a bit. Adventurers are much the same way. Halflings have found a special attachment to the metal called Netheryl, and they have become adept at resisting the powers of magic.

Spoiler Orcs :

Orcish Wyvern Riders
5 riders
Veteran (2)
Swords (2)
Chainmail (1)
Flying Combatant (4)
9 gold to train, 4.5 to maintain

Wyverns scour the hillsides in search of food. Perhaps a Halfling or two for lunch? The Orcs, however, have been able to tame these beasts. The result is a highly formidable flying force.

Spoiler Gnolls :

Gnollen Wolf Riders
20 riders
Veteran (2)
Maces/Heavy Weapons (0)
Leather (0.5)
Shield (0.5)
Combatant Mount (0)
3 gold to train, 1.5 to maintain

The Gnolls are often semi-nomadic. Their cities are spread out, massive encampments. They need to get around. Using the giant wolves of the plains, they have been able to create a formidable, mobile defense for their settlements or versatile foes for their enemies.

Spoiler Beastmen :

Beastmen Centaur Scouts
10 scouts
Veteran (2)
Noncombatant Mount (0)
Skilled Magic (2)
4 gold to train, 2 to maintain

Beastmen are a noble race, and such a description definitely applies to one of their most numerous species: the Centaur. The Centaur Scout is naturally enchanted with magic and can cover long distances with great speed.

 

[Adrogans]

Hmmm. So you move from having a pre-done list to having players designs units. Could be fun but keeping balance, that's not the word I want but its close, would be tough on the mod.

But if the mod is up for the effort than thats cool.

EDIT - I guess 'realistic' as much as that can be applied to a fantasy NES is a better word.

 

[Starlife]

Hmmm. So you move from having a pre-done list to having players designs units. Could be fun but keeping balance, that's not the word I want but its close, would be tough on the mod.

But if the mod is up for the effort than thats cool.

Thanks Adrogans.

It's kind of in-between. Cities that players find on the map will already have those generic racial units listed, while Castles will always have unique units. Those unique units in Castles can either be disbanded and a new one designed, or the unique unit kept and trained. Disbanding and designing a new unique unit for a Castle gives a player flexibility to use the advantages of various races. However, by designing your own and not keeping the default unique unit of a Castle, you would be sacrificing the discount that unit type receives (to simulate the fact that you are re-tooling an entire feudal realm's castle to do your bidding, so why should you get a discount). In that way, finding cities of different races could be a strategic element to expanding your kingdom.

I'm up for it. In this NES, resources will be scarce and players will need to compete for them. Battles are inevitable. Having unique units and then subsequently having orders or skills unique to different armies is indeed quite an undertaking to mod, but I feel that with appropriate organizational skills from players and myself, it can be rather streamlined.

 

[Vertinari118]

I can only second what Adrogans has said. If you, Starlife, truly believe that you can run that system then we, the lucky players, are in for a treat.

 

[Starlife]

Thanks, Vertinari118.

Here is my magic system so far. It is a work in progress. I have used a similar system for magic that I used for units.

Spoiler :

M a g i c​

Magic is used to cast spells. Each Wizard has a spell book, and over time, your spell book will grow as you research new spells. Different spells have different effects on your kingdom. There are spells for summoning entire armies, and there are spells for constructing walls of fire around a settlement. There are many types of spells, and as a Wizard, you must research new ones. Each of the following categories are required for each spell:

Type
Damage
Heal
Enchant
Curse
Dispel
Summon*

Range
Within kingdom: 0 mana
0-50 miles from kingdom borders: 30 mana
50-100 miles from kingdom borders: 60 mana
100-150 miles from kingdom borders: 90 mana
150-200 miles from kingdom borders: 120 mana
(every 50 miles, add 30 mana)

Hit
Direct Hit (1 target): 50 mana
Small Burst (all targets in single location): 100 mana
Large Burst (every target in 50 mile radius): 200 mana
Massive Burst (every target in 100 mile radius): 400 mana
Channeled Hits (multiple targets in various locations): 600 mana +50 mana per target

Power
Weak: 50 mana
Refined: 100 mana
Wondrous: 200 mana
Arcane: 400 mana
Divine: 800 mana

Sustainability
One-time: 0 mana
Sustainable: Duration of 1+ turn(s): 1/2 casting mana
Note for sustainability: Sustainability is not set in stone. You do not have to choose how long a spell will last for before you cast the spell. You can sustain a spell for as long as you wish to afford it, or as short as you wish to endure it. However, please indicate whether your spell is a One-Time spell or a Sustainable spell.

* For Summoning spells:
Range = How far your creature can be summoned from your kingdom. Once summoned, creature(s) can operate anywhere on the map.
Hit = How spread out you want your summoned creature(s) to be.
Power = How powerful your creature(s) is.
Sustainability = Amount of time you want your creature(s) to remain summoned.

Targets
A target can be either a unit or a settlement.

Researching Spells

Magic in the world of Ethereal is organic and ever-changing. It is not limited to certain "schools" that might be found in a traditional fantasy setting, though such schools might be created by players for fluff reasons if they wish to do so. Ethereal's mana flows wild from its mana nodes, and it is up to you to design spells that will tame that immense power. Follow the criteria above to create a spell. Then answer these questions:

1. What is the spell's title?
2. What is the spell's description?

Here is an example:

Spoiler :

Wall of Fire
Within kingdom (0)
Direct hit (50)
Wondrous Power (200)
Sustainable
250 mana to cast, 125 mana to sustain
Create a wall of fire around a settlement.

Once you have come up with this spell description, you must officially propose your spell to the GM - me.

Wizardry Levels

Essentially, there are three Wizardry Levels. These different Levels of Wizards effect how many spells you can have in your spellbook. Level 1 is Mage. Every Wizard begins in this Level, and cannot ascend to Level 2 until they have acquired a collective per-turn income of 2,000 mana. Level 2 is Archmage. Wizards in Level 2 cannot ascend to Level 3 until they have acquired a collective per-turn income of 5,000 mana. Level 3 is Demigod.

Level 1 (Mage): Spellbook limited to 3 spells.
Level 2 (Archmage): Spellbook limited to 6 spells
Level 3 (Demigod): Spellbook limited to 10 spells.

Costs of Spells

To design a new spell, you must spend 500 mana. The turn you spend the 500 mana to create a new spell, you are only beginning to research it. You will then finish researching the spell by the next turn, and you will be able to use it at that point. Here is that process, simplified:

Turn 1: Spend 500 mana, propose a spell. I will approve/disapprove (in which case you will make changes).
Turn 2: Your spell will be a part of your spell book and can be used.

Each Wizard will begin with a single spell, which you must propose to me before the game begins (pre-turn). This initial spell is free.

All About Mana

Mana is one of two currencies in this game (the other one being gold). Mana is extremely important because with mana you can cast spells. More powerful spells require more mana. Spells can dramatically alter your kingdom. Some spells can raise entire armies while others can serve as defense mechanisms against more aggressive opponents.

Mana occurs in three different forms: Mana Nodes, Mana Cores, and Mana Streams. The most numerous types of mana centers are Mana Nodes. Each Mana Node provides 10 mana per turn. They are acquired through exploration and expansion. Mana Nodes are never guarded by creatures, yet sometimes the geographic regions they are located within might contain enemies. Mana Cores are worth 100 mana per turn. They are rare and are always guarded by a group of creatures. It is wise to scout the locations of Mana Cores before attempting to absorb them. Mana Streams are the rarest of mana centers and they are worth 300 mana per turn. They are usually guarded by entire encampments of difficult enemies.

Mana Nodes: 10 mana per turn. Small white dots with a black outline.
Mana Cores: 100 mana per turn. Have thick, blue outlines.
Mana Streams: 300 mana per turn. Have thick, red outlines.

Mana centers are permanent. They cannot be altered, destroyed, or removed in any way. They cannot be effected by spells. Mana is the life force of Ethereal. It tends to flow from areas of great natural worth. For example, mana can often be found dotted around a river, becoming more numerous towards the beginning of the river in the mountains and the mouth of the river pouring into the sea or a lake. There are also large quantities of mana deep in mountains and forests. Mana can also be found in fertile lands. Mana is regenerative, so the mana centers you acquire generate their mana every turn, which is then harnessed and controlled by your Wizard.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Definitely don't go for rules that drain your enthusiasm for an idea, although I do like the simpler unit descriptions- it does no soul removing for me, as I still imagine everything that isn't explicitly written out.

 

[Starlife]

Definitely don't go for rules that drain your enthusiasm for an idea, although I do like the simpler unit descriptions- it does no soul removing for me, as I still imagine everything that isn't explicitly written out.

I understand this, but I want the essence of your kingdom to be represented in the types of units you have. I think that is more important in the fantasy genre than having a generic infantry unit.

There isn't much of a difference in my mind between generic unit types and the current system I have proposed. The current system has generic traits, such as combatant mounted or polearms. Then you make a unit with whatever you want in it, and the cost goes up.

It not only serves the purpose of having units to fight wars, but also serves the purpose of allowing unique circumstances to arise so that the game does not become dull and repetitive (which is what would happen if the unit types were left generic and vague).

My enthusiasm would be sucked away if we didn't do this. That is one of the stand-out principles of fantasy games, I feel like. Players invent something. Even if in your mind your Infantry is a certain way, it is still Infantry. This way you can simply say those infantry have this weapon and this armor, and they are called something unique and belong to your kingdom as your own.

I keep hearing how difficult it will be to mod, but really I don't foresee that. I will keep listings of units which will be highly organized. Each player is only allowed 3 unique units from the start, which will serve different roles. Maybe to make it easier for me, I should make players include a 1-2 word "Role" underneath their unit description, just to have the basic gist of that unit (i.e. shock troops, siege, etc.). But as is, I don't find it terribly difficult to moderate or maintain.

EDIT: In fact, I find it easier to mod this way than if we used generic terms and vague descriptions. This way I can clearly see that Unit X has this kind of armor and this kind of weaponry, and that unit Y has this kind of magic and this kind of movement. It makes it easier for me than cycling through long-winded descriptions of entire armies.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Magic

1) I would keep the sustainability, power, hit and whatever else away from player knowledge. It's way better for you to accept and modify player proposals. You can always balance their spells and proposals and say that, even tho you wanted huge fireball hitting a village 100 km away from your town, your mages could only research a small fireball instead of large. This is mainly due to lack of proper mana sources. I don't think that players need to know how spells and their costs are decided upon. Other than by balancing power-range-whatevereverelse. This would also allow players to be more creative.

2) Miles? MILES? What reasonable being (no offense here) would use miles as measurement unit...

3) I don't like mana being "fixed" into some parts of the world. This would give some fast-expanding nations significant advantage, while builder nations would be in significant disadvantage. Adding an option to generate new mana lines (via puncturing through mana lines or altering mana lines) would be very valuable to such peaceful/small/builder kingdoms

Military

Again, I don't think that you should give players accurate knowledge of what costs how much. But I think mod should do that for player. When player sends a request to form a special unit of riders, then often riders organization and battle behaviour is much more important than actually weapons that they can carry.

Light infantry is usually equipped with longswords and round wooded shields. They wear mostly leather armor and are capable of to travel 80 km per day, without resting. They are best used in ambushes or to crush enemy in overwhelming numbers, because of their lack of proper weapons and armor. They can outmanover most troops (other than cavalry) and their speed is what gives them edge in battle.

You should also generate such units for everyone (despite of the race) and give racial special units (like you already did before). This means that first few turns will not be a design-festival that is quite annoying for a Moderator. This is much easier for players, especially because we do not have to chase down a unit in the list of ~30 specially designed units. And many units in that list will be repeated in terms of armor-weapons.

/I'm by no means "good" Moderator and my experience is low but these comments may give you some ideas

 

[LDiCesare]

Starlife, your examples don't take into account the number of people. So a 5-man halfling unit costs the same as a 50-man high man unit or a 100-man barbarian unit with similar equipment...
You might want to clear up how that would work.
You're also going to have a lot of work to handle for all the unit types, good luck with keeping stats as simple as possible (I've been there...). If you can manage the many stats, that should be fun.

 

[Starlife]

1) I would keep the sustainability, power, hit and whatever else away from player knowledge. It's way better for you to accept and modify player proposals. You can always balance their spells and proposals and say that, even tho you wanted huge fireball hitting a village 100 km away from your town, your mages could only research a small fireball instead of large. This is mainly due to lack of proper mana sources. I don't think that players need to know how spells and their costs are decided upon. Other than by balancing power-range-whatevereverelse. This would also allow players to be more creative.

Everything Spells indicate are the player's desire. That doesn't mean it will always work out that way. I have a random system of showing whether or not spells will be successful, and how they will be successful. That system will not be made public. Creating spells in those guidelines makes it much more clear what a player intends a spell to actually do, instead of having some vague description, thus increasing chances of god-playing.

2) Miles? MILES? What reasonable being (no offense here) would use miles as measurement unit...

Silly Americans.

3) I don't like mana being "fixed" into some parts of the world. This would give some fast-expanding nations significant advantage, while builder nations would be in significant disadvantage. Adding an option to generate new mana lines (via puncturing through mana lines or altering mana lines) would be very valuable to such peaceful/small/builder kingdoms

I will think about adding such an option. It would be similar to reinvesting money into a bank. Perhaps small builder nations can reinvest their mana, thus strengthening their existing mana nodes.

You should also generate such units for everyone (despite of the race) and give racial special units (like you already did before). This means that first few turns will not be a design-festival that is quite annoying for a Moderator. This is much easier for players, especially because we do not have to chase down a unit in the list of ~30 specially designed units. And many units in that list will be repeated in terms of armor-weapons.

I am going to generate all of the unique units that come from Castles conquered by players. Other than that, the initial 3 units will all be designed by players in the pre-turn. This is to simulate their Wizard arriving to this world along with that Wizard's specific culture. Even if players have similar aspects (which of course they will), they can adjust it how they wish. You won't have to cycle through a list of 30+ units, by the way. I will. And I don't mind it.

Starlife, your examples don't take into account the number of people. So a 5-man halfling unit costs the same as a 50-man high man unit or a 100-man barbarian unit with similar equipment...
You might want to clear up how that would work.
You're also going to have a lot of work to handle for all the unit types, good luck with keeping stats as simple as possible (I've been there...). If you can manage the many stats, that should be fun.

I wrote this:

The size of the unit, from a single individual to several hundred men, does not alter the effectiveness of the individual unit compared to units with similar components. Yet typically, these prices may indicate the cost of about 100 men. Such description is up to you, though.

That Halfling unit of 5 adventurers is more valuable than a unit of lancers, yes. That is because those 5 adventurers are exceptional individuals capable of accomplishing great feats. They also have reduced cost for magic-resistant armor, making them very valuable in that they can potentially be immune to the effects of magic. Being magic resistant is quite possibly one of the most advantageous traits to have in this NES because it will make spells useless, allow those 5 adventurers to get behind enemy lines and scout areas or even hassle magic units, and even give them some resistance against summoned units. I mean come on. I'm not going to outline everything and I want players to be creative in what they do with what they have.

 

[Starlife]

For peaceful builders, I am working on this sort of concept:

Spoiler :

While mana centers cannot be altered, the amount of energy you channel from them can be. Channeling is the concept of directing magical energies to reinvest in themselves, thus making them stronger. This is ideal for kingdoms that wish to remain geographically small or isolated, focusing on internal affairs and the peaceful building of your kingdom. Your Wizard uses his/her Citadel to channel mana. Mana can be "reinvested" at a 5-25% rate. So if you dedicate 500 mana to Mana Channeling at a 5% Channeling Rate, your Wizard will effectively create +25 mana per turn. The results are permanent. You can continue reinvesting mana as much as you wish. 0% is the default rate. If you want a higher Channeling Rate, you can do the following:

1. Do not cast or sustain any spells during that turn. +5% Channeling Rate.
2. Do not expand your kingdom in any way / Adopt an isolationist policy. +5% Channeling Rate.
3. Do not scout or explore any region of the map. +5% Channeling Rate.
4. Enter a Mana Coma. Points 1-3 must occur for 5 turns (set in stone). +10% Channeling Rate.

The four points listed above are all related to one another. You can't adopt the second point without doing the first, and you can't adopt the third point without doing the second. So if you cast or sustain a spell, and you have enjoyed all 20% Channeling Rate possible, that will suddenly drop to 0%.

 

[Terrance888]

I think it is 25%, and I think it isn't worth it with us blood thirsty NESers. if you double them it might work, but you'll have to work on balance again.

 

[Starlife]

Mana can be "reinvested" at a 5-25% rate.

But yes, I see my typo at the end there. Thanks for noticing.

The Mana Channeling concept is not for bloodthirsty players. That's the point. 25% is dramatic enough. Imagine you are generating 1,000 mana per turn. Even a 10% Mana Channeling rate will give you +100 by the next turn. If you devote 5 turns to Channeling, 25% at 5 turns will do the following:

1,000 + 250
1,250 + 300 (I will be rounding to the nearest increment of 50)
1,550 + 400
1,950 + 500
2,450 + 600
=3,050

You have gone from having 1,000 mana per turn to 3,050 mana per turn. But you weren't able to cast a spell, expand your kingdom, or even explore. You were extremely vulnerable for 5 turns. But in my opinion, that is damn worth it.

 

[Terrance888]

Oh... its like interest I see. Thanks for explaining.