New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[das]

Additionally holding planets, to the Craftworld Eldar would be suicide, they are monsters with tech and Physic Powers, but extremly fragile, Holding a position would be silly. The Biel-Tel craftworld has the most interactions with the Exodites, because it sees those worlds as the starting point of A New Eldar Empire, but the Craftworld Itself does not actually colonise etc.

Biel-Tan (silly Scots, can't even get the names of their own ancient pagan holidays right ), and it's the only Eldar faction I have any respect for.

 

[Fulton]

Thanks for the quick replies.

As for dollars: I'm cool either way. I might change it.

As for Eldar: I'm not sure how I'm going to work the Eldar Craftworlds in. Right now they're a self-sufficient $5000, 0 net food, 0 net resources travelling world. They're vulnerable to significant damage (see: Iyanden) but are still powers in their own rights. This way they are still static, with sense of inevitable doom, but that isn't fun to play. It doesn't quitework for me either...

I think you're right about giving them missions. It all depends on what type of player we have and what their goals might be. The population factor is a problem too, since they don't really 'train' new units in the way us humies do.

I've found a way for Orks to work using significantly modified economy rules though, at least.

As for Hive worlds: Interesting link there. I don't think Lucas was ever much for realism anyways (see: Endor extinction theory). Much less pretty than Coruscant. And much less populated. There are only about a few score hive cities, each with a population approaching a billion (Yeah, not so much in the realism department there either, but hey, GW has never been good with numbers). It's why you need 1 1/2 agri-worlds to feed a hive world.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Biel-Tan (silly Scots, can't even get the names of their own ancient pagan holidays right ), and it's the only Eldar faction I have any respect for.

Oops hes correct, well its been a few years. Although I do keep up to date on the Codex's.

And Of course its the only Eldar Faction you would have respect for, all the other ones prefer manipulation [Ulthwe], Stealth and being sniper/Camper irritating [Alaitoc], Or raise their dead in robotic bodies and arm them with WMD [Iyanden]. Yes WMD, do not fight these dinky robots with Titans, thats just idiocy.

I have no respect for Siam-Han and am loath to even mention them. [barbarians].

Well thats the typical spread of Craftworlds, I have a prefer Alaitoc myself, although Ulthwe does have a pull to it.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Thanks for the quick replies.

As for dollars: I'm cool either way. I might change it.

As for Eldar: I'm not sure how I'm going to work the Eldar Craftworlds in. Right now they're a self-sufficient $5000, 0 net food, 0 net resources travelling world. They're vulnerable to significant damage (see: Iyanden) but are still powers in their own rights. This way they are still static, with sense of inevitable doom, but that isn't fun to play. It doesn't quitework for me either...

I think you're right about giving them missions. It all depends on what type of player we have and what their goals might be. The population factor is a problem too, since they don't really 'train' new units in the way us humies do.

Yes, the self-sufficiency of the Eldar is a good thing to follow through, but essentially you'd need to roleplay them or as a mod set them targets to do, and after each update, tell them if anything new needs to be atteneded to also. And Iyanden although wrecked got only more dangerous in its death spasms, the idea of a small 1000pt army being able to take out a Imperial Titan, well its just a bit insane .

The only way to really expand and grow with the Eldar would be to utilise Exodite worlds on a semi-colonial basis [Informal Empire really, although rules might require it to be codified just to iron out loop-holes etc]. The Exodite Worlds reproduce slightly quicker than Craftworld Eldar, something to do with them not being part of the fall, cultures slightly different, although still vunrable to Slannesh. I could go out and this is pretty much made up, but you could operate the Exodite worlds with basically all Agri-Worlds [that level of infrastructure, although some are agri-death worlds and so on]. So you could operate an Auxillary type army alongside yours, and each additional world would have SOME Exodite Eldar joining up as Craftworld Eldar, so it increases your Population increase etc.

Just basically flinging some ideas out there. But the above puts them on a more 'normalised' level with the other factions.

The other direction to take is fully story based, or even have both types operating. Although bear in mind that the plots likly to have small craftworlds, none of the famous names, although they might be of similar mind-sets as those famous ones.

 

[Fulton]

I think the success of the exodites is due to cultural factors. They aren't locked into the fatalistic spiral the craftworld Eldar have. They also have fewer constraints on their population, the craftworlds are finite and have been static for countless millenia, while the Exodites have changed and thrived in an (albeit much more low tech) frontier. They have to change and evolve. In doing so, new vribrant cultures evolve to replace the old stagnant ones.

I think that whatever happens, the Eldar player(s) is going to have to be a reliable player who doesn't care about conquering worlds and loves them for their background.

I might have a few exodite worlds scattered around as NPCs for the Eldar players to mess around with. The Exodites will be absolutely essential to the Eldar player. Unless he can convince a few Imperial governors to go rogue, or make an alliance with the Tau or something. Even then, they'd be necessary.

The craftworld(s) featured will be new ones made by the player. No Craftworld, Marine Chapter, or special character that features in the game background or fiction will be playable in this game.

I'm also going to leave out deathworlds, research worlds, and a more generic settled world (really a stage between agri and industrial worlds) because I've already got about 7-8 types already.

Ok, the list of playable factions looks like this:
Approx. 8 human
- up to 2 Marine
- up to 2 AdMech
- at least 2 Independent
2-3 Chaos
3-4 Orks
1-2 Eldar Craftworlds
1-2 Exodites
1 Genestealer Cult
1 Tau
Possibly 2-3 new alien races or minor alien races.

I've always loved Iyanden best by the way. I had a chance to buy the old 'Doom of the Eldar' game a couple years back. Shoulda done it.

 

[Kal'thzar]

Looks good, the Eldar are going to essentially have to manipulate their way through the game.

If at the end their still around, the eldar have won as great a vicotry as they ever will

 

[das]

- at least 2 Independent

What would that be, exactly?

 

[Kal'thzar]

Rogue Imperium places, but not affiliated to Chaos.

 

[Xen]

so, any word on the whole alternate geography earth map?

 

[Symphony D.]

One bit of input: fergodsakes, don't use dollars to describe prices of an Imperium of the 40th millennium, please.

so, any word on the whole alternate geography earth map?

People here tend to be loathe to take commissions without getting something out of it.

 

[Fulton]

Rogue Imperium places, but not affiliated to Chaos.

They can be, but not necessarily. Remember, humanity spread to the stars long before the Emperor began his campaign. Many of those planets were never conquered by the Imperium. Solar Macharius' great campaign conquered of a thousand worlds, the majority of them were human planets that had never been part of the Imperium.

Since I'm getting a lot of negative feedback about the dollar sign, I'll take it out. It's just an abstraction anyways, the term for it doesn't matter.

I agree with you in regards to the Eldar Kal'thzar. In fact, for anyone to survive until the end of the game is going to be a challenge.

 

[Kal'thzar]

following the imperiums "party line" [if the imperium could be considered to have one], it would be if you ain't Imperium, your Xenos or rebels.


Anyhoo, any more things we can look at?

 

[Fulton]

Good point Kal.

Here is something for you to take a look at. First, some rules:

Spoiler :

Units and You:
Your units come in two varieties: Army and Navy.

The two should be an obvious distinction. Army units are those that need solid ground in some point of their operation. Navy units are those that exist in the vacuum of space.

In your orders PM, you should include an up to date order of battle (OOB). Just group your units according to location. You can break these into fleets, give them names, etc, do whatever you like. Your units are anything you want them to be within reason. If you want your Imperial Guard Regiments to be equipped with autoguns and drive Malcador tanks, so be it. So long as it is in keeping with the spirit of the unit descriptions and rules, do it.

Turns will be of sufficient length that any unit can cross the map in the span of a single turn, if the warp is willing. To give a sense of scale, it will take a year to cross from one corner of the map to the other in a diagonal line under normal warp conditions.

So how long does travel take? As long as I say it does. The warp is fickle by nature. A trip that might normally take three months might be over in a week, or in a hundred years. Only Tau have any real idea of how long they will take, as they merely skim the surface of the warp.

If I think the story will be best served by two fleets meeting, so be in. If it is more dramatic for something to arrive late, or early, or on time, then so be it. That being said, I will use common sense.

There are a few rare units that can both land on the ground and fly through space, such as the Thunderhawk or Manta, but they are rare. Hybrid units can exist as either Navy or Army, depending on where they are based.




Following are the units and rules unique to each playable faction.

Now, the first complete faction rules/unit list (well, no navy yet, but complete enough):

Spoiler :

The Imperium of Man
You are the inheritors of the Emperor’s dream. It is your duty to ensure humanity’s survival through any means necessary. Well, at least the portion of humanity directly under your control.

The Administratum has granted you absolute power over this region. How you run it is up to you, and should follow from local custom (you might be a local yourself, you might even be a they).

There are a few rules: stay loyal to the empire, aid your brother humans, do your best to expand the rule of the Imperium, do not keep faith with xenos, and root out the taint of the ruinous powers at all costs.

These are not easy rules to follow. Many thousands of governors over the years have fallen to their own greed, or to the lure of powers greater than themselves.

Special Rules:
10% of your income goes as a tithe to the Administratum every year solong as you are a part of the Imperium.

State Creation limits:
The Imperium is such a wide and varied place that any sort of society may have developed. Create whatever you like, then use your background to help you work out your starting stats.

Imperial Guard Units:
Planetary Defense Infantry Division: These are your planetary military, ranging from militias to well trained veterans. They will do their best, but are often outclassed in modern warfare. Their strength is in numbers.
Cost: $50
Production Requirement: 1

Planetary Defense Armoured Division: As with their Infantry counterparts. Using reliable and effective tanks like the Leman Russ and Chimera, but with no specialized vehicles.
Cost: $80
Production Requirement: 1

Planetary Defense Artillery Regiment: A basic artillery support unit. For the Imperium, Basilisks and other standard artillery. The equivalents for other factions all amount to the same thing: Big guns that lob big shells long distances. This includes the vehicles to tow the guns and a small guard force.
Cost: $60
Production Requirement: 2

Planetary Defense Air Group: Basic air support, mainly fighters but with some bombing capability.
Cost: $100
Production Requirement: 2

Imperial Guard Regiment: These are the best and bravest soldiers of the Imperium. Usually formed from the top 10% of a planet’s planetary defence force, the Imperial Guard are better armed, better trained, unified in purpose and often have significant experience.
Cost: $80
Production Requirement: 2

Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment: The armoured wing of the Imperial Guard. Receiving additional training and better maintenance, not to mention Leman Russ variants such as the Demolisher, Vanquisher, and Executioner, these are a force to be reckoned with. Armoued Fist Platoons commonly assist these regiments.
Cost: $125
Production Requirement: 2

Heavy Armoured Regiment: And you thought Demolishers were bad… These specialized tank regiments are the heavy hitters of the Imperial army. Variant Leman Russ’ are more common than the standard in these regiments. But they are merely the support for the real might of the Heavy Armoured Regiment: the superheavy Baneblades and Shadowswords. Few foes can stand up to these metal monstrousities.
Cost: $200
Production Requirement: 4(3?)

Siege Artillery Regiment: Specially trained for siege warfare, these crack regiments are built to pound hive cities into the dust. They are armed with Griffon mortars, enhanced Basilisks, and the mightiest siege machines the Death Korps of Krieg can design. Any siege is a foregone conclusion once these troops arrive en masse.
Cost: $100
Production Requirement: 3

Aeronautica Imperialis Air Group: Equipped with the best fighters and bombers the Imperium can produce, these elite pilots rule the skies. Only the most advanced fighters can keep up with them in the skies.
Cost: $200
Production Requirement: 3

And because I'm feeling nice, the second complete list:

Spoiler :

The Adeptus Astartes
Hail, brother-captain. You are the first and last line of defence for the Imperium. Within your veins flows the blood of generations of warriors. You hold within you the genetic legacy of the Primarchs, as do we all.

We are peerless throughout the entire galaxy, but we are few. We are the example to which all of humanity must strive. We are the vanguard of the Emperor’s armies. The Imperium gives us much freedom. Almost complete autonomy in fact.

The tenets of our existence are clean:
Purge the Mutant.
Exterminate the Xenos.
Bring justice to the Traitor.

We are more than just men, we are the Space Marines!

Special Rules:
Your capital plant has the ‘Marine Chapter Homeworld’ template applied to it. There are special rules for recruiting space marines which as found in your army list.

You do not need a transport vessel to transport Space Marine Scouts, Battle Brothers, Terminators, or Thunderhawks.

You must choose whether you follow the Codex Astartes or not. Those who follow the codex and limited 9 total companies of Terminators and Battle Brothers. Those who do not follow the codex do not have this restriction, but will also be under close scrutiny by the Administratum and may be subject to genetic taint.

State Creation limits:
You cannot play a first founding chapter, a major chapter with an army list or that features heavily in the game (Blood Ravens, Black Templars, etc.).

You may choose a chapter for which you are the successor for, or you may not know. Otherwise, you are free to do whatever you want. Remember, you are a loyal chapter. You may go renegade during the game (if you have very good story reasons) but you may not start out so.


Adeptus Astartes Unit:
Planetary Defense Infantry Division: These are your planetary military, ranging from militias to well trained veterans. They will do their best, but are often outclassed in modern warfare. Their strength is in numbers.
Cost: $50
Production Requirement: 1

Planetary Defense Armoured Division: As with their Infantry counterparts. Using reliable and effective tanks like the Leman Russ and Chimera, but with no specialized vehicles.
Cost: $80
Production Requirement: 1

Planetary Defense Artillery Regiment: A basic artillery support unit. For the Imperium, Basilisks and other standard artillery. The equivalents for other factions all amount to the same thing: Big guns that lob big shells long distances. This includes the vehicles to tow the guns and a small guard force.
Cost: $60
Production Requirement: 2

Planetary Defense Air Group: Basic air support, mainly fighters but with some bombing capability.
Cost: $100
Production Requirement: 2

Imperial Guard Regiment: These are the best and bravest soldiers of the Imperium. Usually formed from the top 10% of a planet’s planetary defence force, the Imperial Guard are better armed, better trained, unified in purpose and often have significant experience.
Cost: $90
Production Requirement: 2

Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment: The armoured wing of the Imperial Guard. Receiving additional training and better maintenance, not to mention Leman Russ variants such as the Demolisher, Vanquisher, and Executioner, these are a force to be reckoned with. Armoured Fist Platoons commonly assist these regiments.
Cost: $140
Production Requirement: 2

Space Marine Scout Company: These are youths chosen from Marine worlds. Though most will die long before they can become full battle brothers, they are as valiant and loyal as their more experienced comrades. They act as light infantry, scouts, snipers, and other forces.
Cost: None. Automatically recruit 1 Company per 6 worlds owned every (minimum 1 per turn) 5 years.
Upkeep: $40
Production Requirement: None

Space Marine Battle Brother Company: The supreme warriors of the Imperium. Gods among men, these powered armoured behemoths rarely take to the field in pitched battles. Fighting in hundred man units, the Adeptus Astartes rains from the heavens in drop pods or run guns blazing from a landing Thunderhawk gunship. As quickly as they came, they are gone. Whomever or whatever their target is only a memory. If you don’t know who these guys are, you shouldn’t be playing.
Cost: None. Automatically promoted when enough scouts earn their place as full battle brothers.
Upkeep: $60
Production Requirement: None

Terminator Honours Company: The greatest of all marines are honoured with the Crux Terminatus. This highest honour allows the Marines to don Tactical Dreadnaught Armour. In most cases, only one company of these hardened veterans will exist. Some Chapters aren’t even lucky enough to form a single company.
Cost: None. Automatically promoted when enough veterans exist.
Upkeep: $100
Production Requirement: None

Thunderhawk Gunships: Thunderhawks are the best fighters available to the Imperium. Capable of both air and space combat, the Thunderhawk is the most versatile weapon in the Imperial Armoury. Thunderhawks are capable of laying down a vicious bombardment on its way to disgorging its crew of blood-thirsty Space Marines
Cost: $300
Production Requirement: 3

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Dibs on the Genestealer Cult.

 

[a_propagandist]

Reserving Imperium slot, if not, them Tau please.

 

[Shadowbound]

I'd recommend taking out the Imperial Guard troops from the Space Marine contingent, forcing them to rely on the Imperial Guard players, while the Space Marines serve as an elite strikeforce.

 

[Fulton]

a_propagandist, is that just a standard Imperial slot? You and Iggy have been noted. Anyone else who helps out with development can also reserve a spot.

I'd recommend taking out the Imperial Guard troops from the Space Marine contingent, forcing them to rely on the Imperial Guard players, while the Space Marines serve as an elite strikeforce.

I'll keep that in mind. Though some Marine chapters do raise their own Imperial Guard. Without them, the Marines are going to be a bit underpowered in this game.

That being said, I think I'll remove the Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment from the Marine list.

 

[Dachs]

Minor request: the forums won't let me into the old DisNES3 thread or the preview thread, and I'd like to see Dis' colonial rules. Can someone post them here, please?

 

[Shadowbound]

I'll keep that in mind. Though some Marine chapters do raise their own Imperial Guard. Without them, the Marines are going to be a bit underpowered in this game.

That being said, I think I'll remove the Imperial Guard Armoured Regiment from the Marine list.

Marine Chapters like that are rare, and I can only think of one off the top of my head: the Ultramarines.

Anyway, I'd remove the rest of the Imperial Guard troops, leaving the PDF forces. The Space Marines would be able to Deep Strike, Infiltrate, and serve as a heavy core for the conscript troops.

About other things:

Eldar, the idea of having the Exodites is great. It may be possible to force some sort of symbiotic relationship, with the Eldar having a low unit cap but technologically advanced forces, while the Exodites would have no such cap. The Exodites would have the ability to use some of the lower level Eldar units (Guardians, Falcons) when they are allied, while the Eldar would have their unit cap raised for every Exodite world they are allied to.

The same thing could be done with the Space Marines, and by extension the Chaos Space Marines, if you want.

Another way to handle Chaos would be to make it mostly based off human troops, while Chaos Marines be given out by the mod, arriving in pursuit of glory, out of faith, or for the power of that player.

Orcs, I say make the creation of advanced units require a certain number of base units. For every 3Mobs o' Boyz, you can make a Mob o' Nobz.

 

[Fulton]

Shadowbound,

I think you've convinced me in regards to the Marines/Guard. I'll remove them for now. Marine players will have access to basic Imperial Guard units only if they undertake a long process of story posts and investment in order to form a more Ultramar like state.

Your ideas on the Eldar are great. I'll work on changing the Eldar around to fit along those lines.

As for the Chaos Space Marines, we're on the same page. That's how they're going to work.