New Units That Would Make the Game More Interesting

[Peng Qi]

I know, I know, if I want them I should mod them in...but seriously, there are a few very simple unit additions that could be made that I think would make this game so much more engaging. Namely:

More Sea Combat Units
Right now, sea combat is all ranged combat. Why this is perplexes me, especially when oceangoing warfare was ram-and-board for millennia. Wouldn't "melee" naval units enhance the depth of naval warfare anyway? Why not add these? I'm thinking:

Ancient/Classical/Medieval:
Trireme (Melee)
Galley (Ranged)

The barbarian naval unit could be renamed "longship."
(I also think that the medieval era needs separate naval units from the ancient and classical so naval combat would actually scale with land combat, but I already posted about that in another thread.)

Renaissance:
Brig (Melee)
Frigate (Ranged)
Caravel (Scout)

Industrial:
Ironclad (Melee)

Modern:
Destroyer (Melee/Scout)
Sub (Ranged)
Battleship (Siege-ish)


And secondly...
More Scouts
I think scouts could easily become an interesting element of warfare in this game. A well-positioned scout with a scout promotion or two is already very helpful for assessing nearby threats, but they don't scale at all as the game goes on, making them extremely hard to keep alive. I'm not saying they should ever be as good as real combat units, but I do think a dug-in scout should be able to take a hit from a contemporary unit without keeling over, and should be able to finish off crippled or outflanked units with relative consistency. My suggestions for what these scouts should be in each era:

Ancient:
Scout

Classical:
Slingers/Javelineers

Medieval:
Irregulars

Renaissance:
Militia

Industrial:
Skirmishers

Modern:
Paratroopers could be retooled to fill this role, or Armored Cars could be added.

Future:
Gun Drones


Again, names really aren't the relevant bit; it's just a desire to scale the Scouts so they don't become almost impossible to protect or meaningfully use on the battlefield. It would also prevent Scouts popping goody huts and becoming an archer with scout promotions, which is a little fun but inconsistent.

 

[Rokklagið]

I'm personally not interested in more "same units with different numbers"-like ones. I'd like to see special units though: privateers, spies, missionaries, diplomats, slaves (probably the marketing dpt would like these ones), etc. Your idea of Battleship is also nice.

 

[Creepy Old Man]

As for scouts ... how 'bout, if you can keep your scout alive to level 4, then he's eligible for a promotion that makes him invisible? (Except to other scouts?)

 

[Atwork]

As for scouts ... how 'bout, if you can keep your scout alive to level 4, then he's eligible for a promotion that makes him invisible? (Except to other scouts?)

Yes! that's very similar to my compromise idea if spies are not going to be in the game....

 

[SirSaab]

I like the idea of scouts having an upgrade path, though, at least for the modern era. Maybe something like "Recon Team" or some such thing, with stats akin to maybe a Musket?

 

[civfan1]

I do agree with you, scouting units don't have much usefullness, particularly because calvary redefine a scout. A complete overhaul of exploring is the only way to need late-era scouts. Kidding. Maybe. But I feel I'm stepping out of my place.

 

[nokmirt]

Privateers and Pirate ships, Pre dreadnoughts, Dreadnoughts, Biplanes, Protected Cruiser, Armored cruiser, Machine Gunner.

I don't like how they have the frigate replace the Ship of the Line. We should have a frigate and ship of the line seperate, and the British should get a man o war or something to represent their naval superiority. Frigates were not put in the battle line you had to have a ship of at least 64 guns even to be considered, and even that only happened rarely.

Ironclads could be considered like some early armored ship, but I think we should have a variation of the Gloire or HMS Warrior, or the USS Monitor, or CSS Virginia. One of those first then up it to a pre dreadnought maybe. Extend the tech tree a bit in each era. Not too much but some to make it more historically interesting. I think thats why we have so many mods because the tech tree does not cater enough to all that was present in the military evolution of civilization.

 

[Shadow717]

I'm still hoping that the ranged unit path eventually breaks off to look like this:

Archer> crossbowman> grenadier>mortar crew

 

[Atwork]

Archer> crossbowman> grenadier>mortar crew

I like it!

 

[Morningcalm]

More peaceful/diplomatic/non-direct combat units. Civ4 had executives, prophets, missionaries, spies.....Civ5 has modern military units followed by GDR.

Subtlety for peacemongering spy-masters is not an option in the game at present, and I hope that Firaxis will add those options in a future expansion in the VERY least.

 

[nokmirt]

I like it!

Me too mortar crew an excellent idea!

 

[Sonereal]

Trireme (Melee)

Triremes should be melee so I agree there.

Galley (Ranged)

If their range attack was just as strong as an archers, sure.

The barbarian naval unit could be renamed "longship.

What if the Vikings are DLC'd in some day?

Brig (Melee)
Frigate (Ranged)
Caravel (Scout)

I think Renaissance just needs an overhaul in general in regards to naval units. For instance, England's UU is a Ship of a Line for Frigates!

Industrial:
Ironclad (Melee)

Ironclads had cannons on them. They don't need to melee.

Modern:
Destroyer (Melee/Scout)
Sub (Ranged)
Battleship (Siege-ish)

Destroyers shouldn't be melee. Battleships should be able to wipe the floor with an equal number of Destroyers so there's nothing wrong with the way Battleships are in-game.

And secondly...

Modern:
Paratroopers could be retooled to fill this role, or Armored Cars could be added.

Paratroopers aren't scouts. They're meant to get infantry behind enemy lines to take out artillery pieces, flank, and pillage improvements.

 

[Babri]

What about Scouts upgrading to Explorers & Conquistador replacing explorers instead of Knight ?

 

[Atwork]

Scouts upgrading to Explorers

That's fine for the medieval to renaissance age. Upgrade to Explorer with Compass; represented similar to C4 style art.

With military science they should upgrade to "Skirmishers," represented similarly to cavalry units -- but in drabber uniforms so as to not be confused -- a different colored horse -- equipped with a scope instead of weapon.

With replaceable parts they should upgrade to "Armored Recon." Recon units should be represented as a little Jeep with a driver and a passenger standing with binoculars.

With electronics they should upgrade to "Mechanized Recon," represented by a Humvee.

At each level up upgrade, they should receive bonuses:
+1 movement as Explorer (strength 6);
+1 sight as a Skirmisher (strength 12);
+1 movement as Armored Recon (strength 24);
+1 sight as Mechanized Recon (strength 48)


So, that little scout with strength of 4, movement of 2, and sight of 2, would end its journey as a Mech Recon unit with a strength of 48 and a movement of 4, and a sight of 4.


Here's an essay on topic: http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/download/csipubs/scouts_out.pdf

 

[SHaW1986]

and in a future era upgrade to drones.

 

[Pouakai]

Could an industrial/modern scout be a sort of Guerllia group?

I agree with melee triremes.

Also, maybe add in Mercenaries (See link in my signature)

 

[Sonereal]

What about Scouts upgrading to Explorers & Conquistador replacing explorers instead of Knight ?

The problem is that there's a difference between scouting and exploring. Scouts scout and explorers....explore.

But there really is a need for scouts that go throughout the tech tree and for gameplay reasons, I figure explorers would be good enough.

and in a future era upgrade to drones.

I could argue that drones are a "modern" thing.

Could an industrial/modern scout be a sort of Guerllia group?

No because you don't use Guerillas to "scout" but to "harass the hell out of the enemy". A Guerilla unit would be interesting though. Invisible when in jungles and forests?

 

[Atwork]

...a future era upgrade to drones

I think drones should be their own special unit. They are a revolutionary unit but are really the latest in un-manned combat technology. First in line would be the V2 rocket, then the cruise missile, then the drone. C4 had the cruise missile. Probably up to modders to reintroduce the line.

 

[Atwork]

The problem is that there's a difference between scouting and exploring. Scouts scout and explorers....explore.

IMO, that's really hairsplitting considering the CIV is a macro-level game. Especially considering C4's precedent of scouts upgrading to explorers.

But there really is a need for scouts that go throughout the tech tree and for gameplay reasons, I figure explorers would be good enough.

Seriously. it's not as though at some point the player ceases wanting to scout ahead of his troop movements as he plunges into unrevealed enemy territory.


Scout---> Explorer (Compass)---> Skirmisher (Military Science) ---> Armored Recon (Replaceable Parts) ---> Mechanized Recon (Electronics)

 

[Sonereal]

IMO, that's really hairsplitting considering the CIV is a macro-level game. Especially considering C4's precedent of scouts upgrading to explorers.

True.

Seriously. it's not as though at some point the player ceases wanting to scout ahead of his troop movements as he plunges into unrevealed enemy territory.

I didn't say that.

Scout---> Explorer (Compass)---> Skirmisher (Military Science) ---> Armored Recon (Replaceable Parts) ---> Mechanized Recon (Electronics)

I think the Explorer should be a mounted unit. Same with skirmisher since horseback scouts would surely be more useful than those that run on foot.

But earlier idea of Guerilla Units still looks interesting but for a different reason. There should be a "Guerilla" promo that allows the unit to "hide" in jungles and forests if they're fortified and to receive a bonus if an enemy unit walks onto the hex.