New Units That Would Make the Game More Interesting

On the topic of the scout, I actually thought about its possible upgrade (explorer) today in my game. I'm on a pangea map, and the only coastal city I have goes into a small, ice locked sea. So I know nothign of the vast sea outside my territory, and would like to know if there is decent island to settle out there. So I thought Explorers would come around the time of the caravel, maybe a little after. They would keep the scouts LOS even when at sea, but still have low combat, no bombardment (obviously), and not be as fast as the caravel, that way they don't totally replace them. It would sort of be a caravel/scout hybrid and come just in time to scout the new world

As for a scout militray path, it would certainly be welcome but isn't needed. Cavalry and Lancers already have the visibilty upgrade, which helps with military scouting. I think if the Skirmisher was to be mounted (which makes sense) it should be (depending on the time it comes into play) either a Javelin cavalry in the classical/early medieval era, or a Dragoon like cavalry around the time of lancers (pistol cavalry)

I like the idea of Drons/UAV but I wonder how they should be implimented. Air recon unit? Air bombardment unit? 'helicopter like unit", in that its airborne but follows the ground? Cruise missle like?
 
UAVs should be air units with a high evasion rate.
 
Rokklagið;10023880 said:
I'm personally not interested in more "same units with different numbers"-like ones. I'd like to see special units though: privateers, spies, missionaries, diplomats, slaves (probably the marketing dpt would like these ones), etc. Your idea of Battleship is also nice.

This. Units like this would add a lot less boredom into a given game. I love privateering, especially multiplayer among friends.
 
I like the idea of Drons/UAV but I wonder how they should be implimented. Air recon unit? Air bombardment unit? 'helicopter like unit", in that its airborne but follows the ground? Cruise missle like?

Drones could be implemented as an air unit with low range (say six to tie in with the next suggestion) and the stealth bombers ability to always show the surrounding six tiles.
In addition a drone controller unit should be implemented, basically a ground unit which can carry drones like a carrier carries fighters and bombers. It could even be done as a promotion so a new unit isn't needed.
 
For air forces, hopefully they change the visibility parameter. Currently fighters and jets see 8 hexes - that 8 is an editable variable, but it's the same for all recon aircraft. It should be a unit-specific variable. It would be nice too if it could be modified by promotions (especially the +2 range).
 
Dragoons were more than pistol-toting cavalry. They were the first mobile infantry. They were infantry units who rode quickly to where needed on the battle field, dismounted, and formed a line.


For air forces, hopefully they change the visibility parameter. Currently fighters and jets see 8 hexes - that 8 is an editable variable, but it's the same for all recon aircraft. It should be a unit-specific variable. It would be nice too if it could be modified by promotions (especially the +2 range).

That's due to the way they set up the xml in this version. Instead of putting every variable into each unit's definition, they defined all the traits with default values. Then, they only put any non-default traits under the unit definition. So, if you want to change something that is a default value, you have to add the tag yourself to the unit defintion.
 
For scouts, personaly scouts can just stay like they are till the middle ages, in the reneisance they can be upgraded to some form of hunter, in the industrial era they can be upgraded to rangers and in the modern era they upgrade into pathfinders or recon or something.
My opinion on new units:
Groudn units:
Lancers get upgraded to mechenized infantry, Calvary to tanks, regular Infantry upgrades to Modern Infantry, helicopters a new unit for modern era
AA guns upgrade to self propeled AA guns (Shilka, Gepard), SAMs a new unit for modern era
AT guns upgrade to Guided Missle Squads (Milan, Javelin systems)
New self propeled AT unit (Jagdpanther, M10) upgraded to modern self propeled AT (APCs armed with TOW missles and the like)
Aircraft :
-Fighter Bombers (Hawker Typhoon, P-47 Thunderbolt), upgraded to Modern FB (A-10 Warthog, Su-25 Frogfoot) - gets a 100% bonus against all land units, regular bombers get a 150%-200% bonus against cities
-Recon (SR-71 Blackbird) - immune to all AA exept SAMs, super long range, can't attack
etc.
 
Lancers and Cavalry shouldn't upgrade to those. There's a difference between the subtle and easy upgrading from say, warriors to swordsmen to longswords to rifles compared to Lancers to Mech Inf and Cavs to Tanks.

Tanks require an industrial base to build. You shouldn't be able just to upgrade cavalry to tanks.
 
Lancers and Cavalry shouldn't upgrade to those. There's a difference between the subtle and easy upgrading from say, warriors to swordsmen to longswords to rifles compared to Lancers to Mech Inf and Cavs to Tanks.

Tanks require an industrial base to build. You shouldn't be able just to upgrade cavalry to tanks.
You can already upgrade cavalry to tanks...
And units upgrade based on their battlefield roles, not how logical it is to upgrade them.
 
I know cavalry already do but they shouldn't upgrade to tanks. If anything, they should upgrade to the much more logical gunships.
 
I would like to see an icebreaker to take care of those ice hexes that can block ship movement.
 
I know cavalry already do but they shouldn't upgrade to tanks. If anything, they should upgrade to the much more logical gunships.

Well both are simelar to cavalry, but I would still count tanks as the logical sucessor to cavalry before gunships. Gunships are quite unique in history, while tanks are preaty much cavalry with 120mm cannons, machineguns and trakcs instead of sabers, carbines and horse feet. And they still work as shock units, particulary effective against infatry, yet need constant infantry support.
A gunships doesen't need infantry support to function effectively, and they work much more as hit and run units, plus there is the whole flying thing :p
 
Triremes should be melee so I agree there.

Also agree. The prow was usually reinforced to allow ramming.


If their range attack was just as strong as an archers, sure.

Hmnn. I would proably drop range by 1. Shooting a bow from a ship is a bit more difficult than shooting from dry land.

What if the Vikings are DLC'd in some day? :lol:



I think Renaissance just needs an overhaul in general in regards to naval units. For instance, England's UU is a Ship of a Line for Frigates!

Agree here as well. The whole Era is basically boring unit wise.


Ironclads had cannons on them. They don't need to melee.

They also used "spars" ( basically a wooden torpedo) to sink wooden vessels.



Destroyers shouldn't be melee. Battleships should be able to wipe the floor with an equal number of Destroyers so there's nothing wrong with the way Battleships are in-game.

DD's are primarily an ASW platform with NGFS and ASUW as secondary and tertiary roles. DDG's up's the ante by giving the ship extended range with missiles, but it's still an ASW platform. BB's are ASUW and NGFS platforms, so in game they're doing what they're supposed to do.

What I would really like to see is the full gamat of ship classes, and they're assigned platform classes given to them.

Same for the Air corps. Really? Fighters and bombers? that's it?

I realise that the dev's want streamlined, but hell, if they want to make it a Panzer General clone give us the units to have fun with.

Paratroopers aren't scouts. They're meant to get infantry behind enemy lines to take out artillery pieces, flank, and pillage improvements.

Up to modern times, agreed. However, current Paratroopers also use LRPS and ForceRecon as scouting. Granted, it's military in nature, but they still scout. Guess it's a matter if interpretation, lol.
 
Hmm.....

Paratroopers, I figure, would be useful when they first pop up for most major military operations but later on the game, only useful in scouting, pillaging, and securing behind-the-lines sort of stuff.

So yeah, that makes sense. I wouldn't mind a distinction between the two paratrooper troops. Paratrooper and Modern Paratrooper sounds about right. The Modern one would be slightly more powerful to stay slightly competitive but would have a longer paradrop range.
 
I know, I know, if I want them I should mod them in...but seriously, there are a few very simple unit additions that could be made that I think would make this game so much more engaging. Namely:

More Sea Combat Units
Right now, sea combat is all ranged combat. Why this is perplexes me, especially when oceangoing warfare was ram-and-board for millennia. Wouldn't "melee" naval units enhance the depth of naval warfare anyway? Why not add these? I'm thinking:

Ancient/Classical/Medieval:
Trireme (Melee)
Galley (Ranged)

Not sure about new medieval sea units, but the rest is coming in the expansion - although galleys will probably remain barbarian only. Carthage is getting a unique Trireme replacement.

The barbarian naval unit could be renamed "longship."

I was disappointed the 1066 scenario didn't rename its triremes longships, not just for flavour but because they had different rules despite using the Trireme graphic.

(I also think that the medieval era needs separate naval units from the ancient and classical so naval combat would actually scale with land combat, but I already posted about that in another thread.)

While that seems good in principle, there genuinely was a dearth of innovation at sea during the medieval period, at least in Europe - boats were still mainly mobile transports or fighting platforms designed to operate in shallow seas. At a Civ scale it makes sense that the greatest diversity of ships would come during and after the Renaissance, since this was the first period when ships could really leave shallow waters - do we want a whole bunch more shoreboats when the Trireme is sufficient? You could conceivably add units like the junk for the medieval period, but that wouldn't fit with the Eurocentric focus of the Civ tech tree, in which universal units are those that either were historically universal, or those developed and mainly used in Europe. Granted, an English junk isn't any stranger in concept than a Chinese caravel, but it would raise eyebrows given the game's major market.

Renaissance:
Brig (Melee)
Frigate (Ranged)
Caravel (Scout)

The Privateer (a melee ship) and a Dutch unique equivalent are coming in the expansion.

And secondly...
More Scouts
I think scouts could easily become an interesting element of warfare in this game. A well-positioned scout with a scout promotion or two is already very helpful for assessing nearby threats, but they don't scale at all as the game goes on, making them extremely hard to keep alive. I'm not saying they should ever be as good as real combat units, but I do think a dug-in scout should be able to take a hit from a contemporary unit without keeling over, and should be able to finish off crippled or outflanked units with relative consistency. My suggestions for what these scouts should be in each era:

Just add scouts to the upgrade chain without having to get the archer upgrade from a ruin. I slightly miss the Explorer unit from Civ IV, but I don't think new scout units are very necessary. Most later skirmisher-type units were after all ranged units (as your suggested names testify). I have no problem with adding the scout visibility promotions to the archery chain.

But only Vikings used longships. All of Europe used galleys.

Longship was a generic name for the ships of Germanic Europe in the Dark Ages - groups like the Saxons and Jutes also had longships. The longship can't realistically be used as a replacement name for the galley - longships were medieval, while barbarian galleys are an ancient era unit that gets replaced by barbarian triremes in the classical period. They were also primarily transport ships, designed specifically for speed and navigation - they didn't bombard enemies, ram or engage in naval combat.

Of course there's no very clear need for barbarians to have a unique unit at all, or at least one that's actually unique rather than renamed (as a Brute is a renamed Warrior). Just make the Galley available with Sailing and move the Trireme to Optics so that early ships scale better.

The barbarian naval unit could be renamed "longship.
What if the Vikings are DLC'd in some day?

What if Firaxis were to release an expansion in the next couple of months including melee naval units, a full ranged upgrade path for crossbowmen into the modern era, missionary units, privateers, biplanes...?

Nah, could never happen.

slaves (probably the marketing dpt would like these ones), etc. Your idea of Battleship is also nice.

Slaves should be some kind of tradeable resource that increases production.
 
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