pigswill
fly (one day)
Looking at the various saves I've submitted the weakest game this round.
Thoughts on other games (vote before reading).
Thoughts on other games (vote before reading).
Spoiler :
P666-02 Fix Another Trash Game
- Thread starter Cam_H
- Start date
I like both. Despite reading great strategies ahead of time, I will still manage to forget most of (or all of) those great ideas and still make plenty ofCam_H said:is it 'more educational' to have the roster discuss strategy before the playing takes place, or is it better for people to makemoves and then see the (possible) errors in their decisions?
moves. I've only won a few games with space race, on chieftan and warlord. I thought it was a boring win and knew I was in too much of a builder mentality, so I've been focusing on domination and cultural wins. Now I realize I'm not so good breaking down my long term goal into short ones - I'm tempted to go to the technology advisor and click on future tech and be done with itcabert said:
.I tend to avoid a lot of trades, because they never seem good enough to me. Maybe I'm too greedycabert said:
?I do this all the timeCam_H said:
. I don't think I've ever remembered to switch civics immediately when I've built the pyramids, because I don't get the pop up window.Cam_H said:
Yes, that screenshot was when I realized I definitely haven't given space race a fair shake. And to think I've been impressed with myself when I have a couple of cities making over 100 flasks a turn 
.This is a good tip, but one I will struggle with.cabert said:
Another good tip.pigswill said:
I've analysed all the games, and there are really some good games, with some radical differences.
weaknesses from each games IMHO:
1) VuDu is low on developpement (37 pops vs 62 to cam's game is really low + no new cities). Techwise, it's a soso game (lacks compass and optics and philo, among others, to be competitive, although education in 1 is cool
)
2) Cam_h's game lacks techs! Some easy techs could have been traded a while ago. + units are low (he used them, obviously
). Relations are not good.
3) Pigswill's game is low on cities, though his cities are well developped. He obviously got attacked by MM before he got ready.
4) Mice's game lacks developpement. only 6 cities, with 49 pop points. But MM's cities can make up for this
Relations are not very good. techwise, he chose a different route, with a drawback : no engineering. Building non stop units is good for a war, but the capital lacks gold modifiers (youy have banking, you have a shrine, build the bank and the grocer!)
5) My own lacks workers! Badly!
the good points of our games:
1) VuDu is on the verge of education = universities just next door. No war = time to build them.
2) cam has 12 cities, with the most population. He already has HE and NE. With so many strong cities
3) Pigswill has enough troops (though not right where needed), good techs, and a good reason to kill MM.
4) Mice is in good shape to finish MM. that's enough to say it's a good game! He even has elephants he can use to finish MM who certainly traded him the ivory
5) I've got goodtechs. And cyrus provides me with some good cities. And I've got good realtions to the 2 big boys on the continent. HE due this turn should help a bit.
And I'm sorry about the wrong statements in my first spoiler, I got confused with a test game I run
weaknesses from each games IMHO:
1) VuDu is low on developpement (37 pops vs 62 to cam's game is really low + no new cities). Techwise, it's a soso game (lacks compass and optics and philo, among others, to be competitive, although education in 1 is cool
)2) Cam_h's game lacks techs! Some easy techs could have been traded a while ago. + units are low (he used them, obviously
). Relations are not good.3) Pigswill's game is low on cities, though his cities are well developped. He obviously got attacked by MM before he got ready
.4) Mice's game lacks developpement. only 6 cities, with 49 pop points. But MM's cities can make up for this
Relations are not very good. techwise, he chose a different route, with a drawback : no engineering. Building non stop units is good for a war, but the capital lacks gold modifiers (youy have banking, you have a shrine, build the bank and the grocer!)5) My own lacks workers! Badly!
the good points of our games:
1) VuDu is on the verge of education = universities just next door. No war = time to build them.
2) cam has 12 cities, with the most population. He already has HE and NE. With so many strong cities
3) Pigswill has enough troops (though not right where needed), good techs, and a good reason to kill MM.
4) Mice is in good shape to finish MM. that's enough to say it's a good game! He even has elephants he can use to finish MM who certainly traded him the ivory
5) I've got goodtechs. And cyrus provides me with some good cities. And I've got good realtions to the 2 big boys on the continent. HE due this turn should help a bit.
And I'm sorry about the wrong statements in my first spoiler, I got confused with a test game I run
Thanks all for your thoughts on the games (and related).
I'm not sure if Calavente is available to do the vote count or not on the basis of his post.
Please direct your votes to Cabert within the next day or so, and as always
you can't vote for your own game;
3 votes for the most successful submission
2 votes for the second most successful submission
1 vote for the third most successful submission
(It's a lot easier judging four games than seven!)
For the next 'trash' round we'll play to 1400AD (40 Turns) - but more on that after the vote.
For your info', I've now done a report at post #139 on my game as set out on the previous page.
... you can get an easy 2-for-1 without improving the fortunes of America or Mali. In my Round, I ended up suing Julius for Horseback Riding, but I can't see a big problem with trading Calendar for HBR with Cyrus. Getting Calendar in a trade seemed to me to be a good move.
I'm not sure if Calavente is available to do the vote count or not on the basis of his post.
Please direct your votes to Cabert within the next day or so, and as always
you can't vote for your own game;3 votes for the most successful submission
2 votes for the second most successful submission
1 vote for the third most successful submission
(It's a lot easier judging four games than seven!)
For the next 'trash' round we'll play to 1400AD (40 Turns) - but more on that after the vote.
For your info', I've now done a report at post #139 on my game as set out on the previous page.
Hmmm - well Cabert is very keen on tech' trading, and in this case I think he's rightvudu said:I tend to avoid a lot of trades, because they never seem good enough to me. Maybe I'm too greedy
... you can get an easy 2-for-1 without improving the fortunes of America or Mali. In my Round, I ended up suing Julius for Horseback Riding, but I can't see a big problem with trading Calendar for HBR with Cyrus. Getting Calendar in a trade seemed to me to be a good move.what's the deadline for voting?
I've 2 games at 11 votes and 10 votes, so every voice counts but Calavente soundedlike he wouldn't be there for a while, and armstrong is unheard of for a long time now.
Shall I wait to tomorrow night?
I've 2 games at 11 votes and 10 votes, so every voice counts but Calavente soundedlike he wouldn't be there for a while, and armstrong is unheard of for a long time now.
Shall I wait to tomorrow night?
I think that we go for the '11 voter' now as I agree that neither Armstrong's or Calavente's votes look too promising in terms of promptness.
If Armstrong or Calavente vote or post by the time you read this - count them in.
I've just realised that if the vote counter's game happens to be in a tie, technically they should vote for the other game with their casting vote as they can't vote for their own. This seems a little unfair on the vote counter, so in case of a tie where the vote counter's game is one of the tied games, perhaps the final one should be determined by the toss a coin?
If Armstrong or Calavente vote or post by the time you read this - count them in.
I've just realised that if the vote counter's game happens to be in a tie, technically they should vote for the other game with their casting vote as they can't vote for their own. This seems a little unfair on the vote counter, so in case of a tie where the vote counter's game is one of the tied games, perhaps the final one should be determined by the toss a coin?
(no other votes)Congratulations again to Cabert! 
Sorry to make you declare yourself the winner!
At it happens, I have been stuck at home for a day unexpectedly, so I'll slam together a game for the 'trash' round ... again to finish at the end of the 1400AD turn.
I've been reflecting on this round, and I have some general thoughts;
Population
As observed back in P666-01, I really like to push the population as high as it will go in cities before hitting unhappiness problems (or less commonly working too many farms to stagnation and then being unable to work high
or 
tiles without going into starvation).
At Monarch, the A.I. advantage in and as we well know is larger than Noble and Prince, so we must compensate by boosting population as quickly as practicable so we can quickly get to our maximum or potential. I don't think gradual growth, with an even spread of 
, , and is optimal for the Monarch player to keep up with the A.I. in terms of productivity.
There are of course shortcomings with relying on maximum city populations - a cancelled trade deal, war weariness, lack of Emancipation, etc. will tip the balance to the empire feeding useless unhappy citizens. Then again - as we're playing 1.61 - there's always the Slavery 'bonus-' exploit.
Time to Fight
I thought that this last Round was an ideal time to start making up some ground on the leader(s) - the period between 'Currency and Courthouses' and 'Universities' is a time where we can expand without sending our
rate 'down the toilet', and yet don't have to drop everything in order to slam together Universities 'all over the shop' to in turn be able to build Oxford University.
At this point, Roosevelt has about 20% of the landmass and a sizable Power lead. Even in my game with 12 cities my landmass was a smidge under 20%. With all of the A.I. productivity benefits, I find it is 'generally' more difficult to win from a point where we only have an 'average' sized empire. I would like to have about 15 cities at least during the Industrial Era, and as such I'm glad that Cabert's game (17.2% land area) gives us 10 cities (and a war!) to build from.
Science Centre
One of the shortcomings in my game was the lack of religious spread, but only VuDu (as far as I can see) put multiple monasteries in T1 (Tenochtitlan) - well done
... although some more Cottages there would have been good too!
OK ... on to 1400AD!
Sorry to make you declare yourself the winner! At it happens, I have been stuck at home for a day unexpectedly, so I'll slam together a game for the 'trash' round ... again to finish at the end of the 1400AD turn.
I've been reflecting on this round, and I have some general thoughts;
Population
As observed back in P666-01, I really like to push the population as high as it will go in cities before hitting unhappiness problems (or less commonly working too many farms to stagnation and then being unable to work high
or tiles without going into starvation). At Monarch, the A.I. advantage in
and as we well know is larger than Noble and Prince, so we must compensate by boosting population as quickly as practicable so we can quickly get to our maximum or potential. I don't think gradual growth, with an even spread of , , and is optimal for the Monarch player to keep up with the A.I. in terms of productivity. There are of course shortcomings with relying on maximum city populations - a cancelled trade deal, war weariness, lack of Emancipation, etc. will tip the balance to the empire feeding useless unhappy citizens. Then again - as we're playing 1.61 - there's always the Slavery 'bonus-
' exploit.Time to Fight
I thought that this last Round was an ideal time to start making up some ground on the leader(s) - the period between 'Currency and Courthouses' and 'Universities' is a time where we can expand without sending our
rate 'down the toilet', and yet don't have to drop everything in order to slam together Universities 'all over the shop' to in turn be able to build Oxford University. At this point, Roosevelt has about 20% of the landmass and a sizable Power lead. Even in my game with 12 cities my landmass was a smidge under 20%. With all of the A.I. productivity benefits, I find it is 'generally' more difficult to win from a point where we only have an 'average' sized empire. I would like to have about 15 cities at least during the Industrial Era, and as such I'm glad that Cabert's game (17.2% land area) gives us 10 cities (and a war!) to build from.
Science Centre
One of the shortcomings in my game was the lack of religious spread, but only VuDu (as far as I can see) put multiple monasteries in T1 (Tenochtitlan) - well done
... although some more Cottages there would have been good too! OK ... on to 1400AD!
Cam_H said:Congratulations again to Cabert! Sorry to make you declare yourself the winner!
To be true, i'm glad to be the winner
I'm not too humble generally speaking, but sending votes to one of the candidates kind of defeats the point of secret votes
I hope calavente and armstrong show up again. The roster is getting thin...
On my part, it's more like "no more pop than improved tiles". And since i was low on workers, it's not getting high
right! that's what slavery is forAt Monarch, the A.I. advantage in commerce and hammers as we well know is larger than Noble and Prince, so we must compensate by boosting population as quickly as practicable so we can quickly get to our maximum
hum, it's not the exploit that is important here, it's more the 4 pop = 1 university
Time to Fight
I thought that this last Round was an ideal time to start making up some ground on the leader(s) - the period between 'Currency and Courthouses' and 'Universities' is a time where we can expand without sending our
At this point, Roosevelt has about 20% of the landmass and a sizable Power lead. Even in my game with 12 cities my landmass was a smidge under 20%. With all of the A.I. productivity benefits, I find it is 'generally' more difficult to win from a point where we only have an 'average' sized empire. I would like to have about 15 cities at least during the Industrial Era, and as such I'm glad that Cabert's game (17.2% land area) gives us 10 cities (and a war!) to build from.
That's why I went for cyrus : more land to grab, good cities.
Science Centre
One of the shortcomings in my game was the lack of religious spread, but only VuDu (as far as I can see) put multiple monasteries in T1 (Tenochtitlan) - well done
Hint for every one : there is only one city with judaism in my game (it's the HE one). Don't wait for scientific method to spread it a bit...
will do.
Shall I try some exotic moves again
![[pimp]](/images/smilies/pimp.gif "Pimp [pimp]")
?Well, I've played my Round, and I hope the team doesn't pick mine as 'trash', because we've really got a runaway on our hands now! 
... on the other hand, with a little effort we could take out Rome and Persia for good.
... as in 'No - I did not take out either Rome or Persia for good!'
I'll let the other team members play before uploading my game and 'discussing tactics' a.k.a. 'crisis management meeting'.
I'm starting to wonder whether we should embark on a more 'active' marketing campaign for a couple of extra players.
... on the other hand, with a little effort we could take out Rome and Persia for good.
... as in 'No - I did not take out either Rome or Persia for good!'I'll let the other team members play before uploading my game and 'discussing tactics' a.k.a. 'crisis management meeting'.
Calavente intimated that he was just skipping the last Round, Armstrong however ...cabert said:
I'm starting to wonder whether we should embark on a more 'active' marketing campaign for a couple of extra players.
I would expect nothing less.cabert said:Shall I try some exotic moves again
I had enough improved tiles for all population, and two more cottages being built for the growth due in a few turns. I was surprised to see in everyone else's games there were unimproved tiles being worked. I also noticed that in the last game, but thought it may not have been as important since we were going for an earlier win with war. Is that not as important as I think it is?Cam_H said:VuDu (as far as I can see) put multiple monasteries in T1 (Tenochtitlan) - well done
I'm with you - it's important - especially given that we're playing one notch higher.
... There are exceptions; Forests often are a useful source of and I tend to want to keep them because of the 
bonus. Newly captured cities ... well you take what's there. Oasisi (?) ... well, you can't do much there anyway ...
But you're right - rarely is there much of an excuse for working unimproved tiles around established cities.
If it's Cabert's game that you have in mind, he did concede that he was lacking Workers.
... There are exceptions; Forests often are a useful source of
and I tend to want to keep them because of the bonus. Newly captured cities ... well you take what's there. Oasisi (?) ... well, you can't do much there anyway ...But you're right - rarely is there much of an excuse for working unimproved tiles around established cities.
If it's Cabert's game that you have in mind, he did concede that he was lacking Workers.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Played my set. Pure trash. Crisis management will indeed be required. Report and save to follow later (after I lie down in a darkened room for a couple of days).
Edit: a couple of days of lying in a darkened room later:-
Edit: a couple of days of lying in a darkened room later:-
Spoiler :
Apologies for the lack of screenies in the report.
Please find a somewhat nervously posted submission.
I will be unable to vote this round as I will be away from my Civ CD. I'm prepared to count the votes if you wish, but will only be accessing my work computer from time-to-time.
Please find a somewhat nervously posted submission.
Spoiler :
Here's mine. Oh dear I cant seem to get the hang of this map. Took Persepolis and then lost it soon after. Took it again in 1390.Oxford is far away, and I'm confused about where I would go after this point. Build up and try to out run Ghandi/Roosevelt ? Or is war necessary at this point. (First Monarch game)
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