Patria Grande: Civilizations of the Americas

[Galgus]

So I was thinking about the Cherokee the other day, and thought about this UA:

Civilized Tribes - -33% from influence. Research technologies faster when being influenced by other Civilizations.

So say you're up against Brazil and they've gotten to the "exotic" level of influence. Your science per turn increases by...let's say 10%. And then the research bonus increases as the influence level increases (with Dominant providing the largest.)

It's supposed to simulate how the Cherokee adapted to and assimilated parts of American/Spanish/English culture before Andrew Jackson screwed them over.

For a UU, some form of Rifleman replacement would be good - as a reference to their part in the American Civil War, which is downright fascinating.

Its rather unintuitive and not very satisfying to get a bonus by neglecting , since a decent flow would essentially negate the UA.

Could it work with trade routes instead somehow?

 

[ubergeneral]

Good ideas but I hate the idea of using the term "Civilized tribes"
It's derogatory to native americans, implying that they normally aren't civilized. Every tribe would have developed into a modern nation Cherokee were certainly ahead in that matter but that isn't enough to say other tribes couldn't adapt.

Peoples like the Inuit have made the transition into modern days. This is why I mentioned greenland before, because it is a modern nation that is all native american.

 

[TPangolin]

Y'all ready for Bison? Cree, Blackfoot and Sioux just got a whole lot more interesting. (also wigwams).

 

[ehecatzin]

Y'all ready for Bison? Cree, Blackfoot and Sioux just got a hole lot more interesting. (also wigwams).

Hell yeah, and dont forget about Cacao, mesoamerica got some resource love too.

 

[hangman]

Hell yeah, and dont forget about Cacao, mesoamerica got some resource love too.

Well if not, there's still lots of civ 4 files we can convert!

 

[Reedstilt]

Since the Totonacs aren't otherwise represented, I think it would be cool to add either El Tajin or Cempoala as a Mercantile City-State. Bonus points if their unique resource is Vanilla.

 

[ubergeneral]

Why do we need so many native american tribes?

Anyone feel this project is getting bloated?

at this point I think we need to really cut some civs down and then do more later if there is still an interest

anyways here are my thoughts

1. like with south america native americans and colonies should be split 50/50

narrow down the project a bit

for we don't need every tribe that existed in mexico. I know there were alot and ones like the Olmec and Toltecs are requested often. But part of me thinks that many of the smaller tribes should be merged into a other civs, instead of doing a civ for each one

As for North America there are way too many native american tribes. There should be a mix of native americans and colonal powers

Here is my list

Natives

Cherokee - Famous for having large claims of land and learning new technologies. Could easily have become a modern nation if the american govenment had acknowledged their lands

Shawnee- Held Vast areas of land on the ohio river. Their leader is very well known.

Navaho - Desert tribe. Famous for their dwellings

Sioux - Civ 2. Large tribe, fought off the americans in battle

Haidna - Totem Poles

Mississippian "Moundbuilders" - Had a large trade network and built a large city near the Mississippi river

Modern nations

Canada - commonly requested, large peaceful nation, known for it's Moose and Polar Bears, and not much else

Texas -
The cowboy civ. The wild west was a short period of time, that has left an enormous impact on american culture. Frequently they are depiced having their unsual life style in the desert ranching, mining or farming. Very often they had conflicts with native americans, sorta making them fit in with all the native civs. While the nation of Texas was short lived, it could have become a huge nation with ambitions of expansion if history had gone even a little different. It lasted as long as Grand Colombia, but has had a bigger cultural impact

Confederate States of America -

Very short lived and controversial. The split between north and south and the resulting civil war is something very important to Americans. The Culture to this day, is different in the northern United States compared to the South. While today we feel united, if history went different, it's possible that the Confederacy would still exist. Imagine how different the world wars would have been if the united states was still split? They should definitely be added.

California -

I'll admit this was a free nation for about a month, but despite never having independence, The culture in California is profound.

First off its absurd the amount of culture that comes out of this one state. It's the reason why American culture is so dominant world wide. What makes this state more bizarre are all the contradictions it has. It's part agricultural, while in the suburbs the wealthy live lavish lives and the people in the inner city live in poverty. It leads our nation in technology as well. Near San Francisco is Silicon Vally where most of the technology in the united states is developed. California in interesting politically as well. Don't like the Governor? Elect action movie star, Arnold Swatznager, he'll tell the congress to stop being girly men and do their job. The funny part was, he did a good job as Governor and after he was done, he went back to making movies.

The Mormons -

Another bizzare subculture, they almost got their own state. I personally don't know much about them and their beliefs but they are the only religion in the united states that still has polygamy. They really should be included.

The Almish -

Ok this is the weakest one, but still would be pretty funny to have. The Almish are a religion sect that have rejected techology as one of their beliefs. They don't use electricity, or cars. They ride around in their horse and buggy, wearing funny looking clothing, but they still shop at wal-mart. Who would have guessed?

The Inuit-

Yes this is a modern nation. The inuit tribes did not get pushed off their lands. But what really impresses me is Greenland. Greenland used to be part of Denmark, but in 2009 they got their independence. The Island is built up like a modern nation but it's people are mostly inuit. Now that the ice is melting natural resources have been discovered getting the attension of the United States, England and China. While things like Dog Sleds and Igloos are importent too, I feel that the Inuit have really made the transition into modern times hence why they are here

I feel that north america needs less native american tribes and more modern nations. America is really diverse! Lets have fun splitting it up.

 

[TPangolin]

I think I'd rather have Native American civs way more than the Amish, Californians and the Mormons. Personally I don't feel this project is bloated at all - and if anything I find it rather ambitious.

 

[pyroflare77]

Yes, North America is a very diverse continent. Having less Native American tribes, however, accomplishes the opposite of diversity. If religious sects count as civilizations now, boy is there a lot of work to do.

 

[Kuserab]

Yeah, because we really are over saturated with the peoples of the Americas in media, ubergeneral. Fact is that these are some of the most systematically and criminally underrepresented peoples in the world. That's just a fact - these are societies that simply don't exist to a vast majority of people. And that's something that must be fought tooth and claw. So a project like this I find to be wholesome and heart-warming: to represent and introduce some of the most interesting, varied, and complex of these societies to one of the only video games where they'll fit. Do you know how many native americans and peoples of the americas are represented in gaming as NOT the villain or generic enemy mobs? Next to none.

So I apologize if I come across strongly, but to criticize perhaps one of the best and most promising projects in this community for representing TOO MUCH seems incredibly unfortunate. Especially when we've got so many other groups, teams, and brilliant modders adding so many other parts of the world near non-stop.

 

[Homusubi]

Yeah, because we really are over saturated with the peoples of the Americas in media, ubergeneral. Fact is that these are some of the most systematically and criminally underrepresented peoples in the world. That's just a fact - these are societies that simply don't exist to a vast majority of people. And that's something that must be fought tooth and claw. So a project like this I find to be wholesome and heart-warming: to represent and introduce some of the most interesting, varied, and complex of these societies to one of the only video games where they'll fit. Do you know how many native americans and peoples of the americas are represented in gaming as NOT the villain or generic enemy mobs? Next to none.

So I apologize if I come across strongly, but to criticize perhaps one of the best and most promising projects in this community for representing TOO MUCH seems incredibly unfortunate. Especially when we've got so many other groups, teams, and brilliant modders adding so many other parts of the world near non-stop.

Agreed. When it comes to North America, it would be far better to include as many native tribes as you can. Canada, yes, but not any of the other modern North American civs you mentioned (I'm counting Mexico as Central America here). The USA needs to know that it's not the only country in the world, and making California a civ isn't going to help that one bit.

 

[Zipa_DH]

I don't see how California is a better option than olmecs, which was one of the first civilizations of Mesoamerica, and there's their importance and influence over other cultures, also, toltecs and olmecs are from different ages. Native american peoples are like peoples in Greece, Mesopotamia and India. They may look all the same, but all are different and unique.

And Gran Colombia didn't disappear, just now it's smaller...

 

[Homusubi]

Practically any native civ is better than any of the colonial civs that are now part of the US...

 

[hangman]

Why do we need so many native american tribes?

Anyone feel this project is getting bloated

Nope. There are TONS of worthwhile Native American civilizations (not just tribes!) that are worthy of having their own civs. Please learn more before you jump to those conclusions.

for we don't need every tribe that existed in mexico. I know there were alot and ones like the Olmec and Toltecs are requested often. But part of me thinks that many of the smaller tribes should be merged into a other civs, instead of doing a civ for each one

Okay, here is where your ignorance shows. The Olmecs and Toltecs were not just tribes. They were proper civilizations. The Olmecs could potentially be compared to Sumer or Egypt, while the Toltecs were viewed by the Aztecs as the Romans viewed Greece. Not only that, but the Olmecs and Toltecs were totally unrelated, and a blob civ simply wouldn't work because there really aren't enough shared characteristics between the two.

Canada - commonly requested, large peaceful nation, known for it's Moose and Polar Bears, and not much else

Canada is too boring, IMO. I've seen Canadians here with the same opinion. But in any case, I'm pretty sure it's been done already.

Texas -
The cowboy civ. The wild west was a short period of time, that has left an enormous impact on american culture. Frequently they are depiced having their unsual life style in the desert ranching, mining or farming. Very often they had conflicts with native americans, sorta making them fit in with all the native civs. While the nation of Texas was short lived, it could have become a huge nation with ambitions of expansion if history had gone even a little different. It lasted as long as Grand Colombia, but has had a bigger cultural impact

Eh, maybe, but I think we'll survive if it waits a bit

Confederate States of America -

Very short lived and controversial. The split between north and south and the resulting civil war is something very important to Americans. The Culture to this day, is different in the northern United States compared to the South. While today we feel united, if history went different, it's possible that the Confederacy would still exist. Imagine how different the world wars would have been if the united states was still split? They should definitely be added.

Already been done. Like, numerous times.

The Inuit-

Yes this is a modern nation. The inuit tribes did not get pushed off their lands. But what really impresses me is Greenland. Greenland used to be part of Denmark, but in 2009 they got their independence. The Island is built up like a modern nation but it's people are mostly inuit. Now that the ice is melting natural resources have been discovered getting the attension of the United States, England and China. While things like Dog Sleds and Igloos are importent too, I feel that the Inuit have really made the transition into modern times hence why they are here

Already been done.

I feel that north america needs less native american tribes and more modern nations. America is really diverse! Lets have fun splitting it up.

You say America is really diverse and then ignore the most diverse part of it

 

[Krajzen]

The idea of making Mormon Civ is so brilliantly absurdly bizarrely super insane especially if we are going to exclude Toltecs and Olmecs in order to get... mormons... Come on, man

And Amishes... OK, so we can finally start making mods with music bands turned into civilisations (and Sumer is turning over in his grave)

 

[COF]

The idea of making Mormon Civ is brilliantly absurdly bizarrely super insane especially if we are going to exclude Toltecs and Olmecs in order to get... mormons... Come on, man

I found the Amish to be even more laughable.

What would their UA be?
All Science points turned into Faith per turn after entering the Industrial era or something like that?

 

[Reedstilt]

I found the Amish to be even more laughable.

What would their UA be?
All Science points turned into Faith per turn after entering the Industrial era or something like that?

They should still be able to win via Space Race: Wagon Train to the Stars!

 

[JFD]

Once done, I would love to see an Americas scenario with all of these civs - or at least all that will fit.

 

[ehecatzin]

I think what we have here is a common case of confusing America with Murica, not much to point out that others havent, calling classical civilization "tribes" kinda show where this was going.

Also adding every rebel faction for colonial nations would be impractical, maybe we should also add the Yucatan Republic (seeing as it actually was independent longer that Texas) or the Republica of Rio Grande, now that would get the proyect bloated and out of focus IMHO.

Once done, I would love to see an Americas scenario with all of these civs - or at least all that will fit.

That would be great, it would make for very cool playthroughs.

 

[matiss00]

If ther were made scenario like that, then thereshould be couple of scenarious that would resemble different timelines- tribes, colonization, revolutions and nowadays