Republican Bidens and the Failure of the Democratic Party

[Gorbles]

Whenever we, for any reason and in any way, allow Republicans to control things!

When we allow? "allow" here is doing a lot of work. Be contextual

If voters are to be understood (as Sommer claimed), suggesting that they allowed something is missing the point. Or, the very least, you need to accept that you're pointing at the folks that should've done better.

 

[Gori the Grey]

No. Remember. It's two predictions. If progressives don't vote for Biden, Trump may well win. If Trump wins, he will certainly enact policies that progressives won't like. Roe is evidence for the validity of the latter of the two predictions.

 

[KMRblue1027]

I don't think it's really much of a prediction so much as accepting that progressives make up roughly 20% of the population and liberals another 1/3 or so. If they consistently coalitioned together they'd hold all 3 electable parts of the federal government. Not enough to be filibusterer proof as the Senate is super R biased enough so that the Dems have maybe a ceiling of 56 votes. But neither side of the theoretical coalition is consistent enough at voting to do this. If the Dems move any further left especially on social issues they'll lose African Americans (it's already happening slowly anyway) while moving any further rightward on pretty much any issue would lose their second largest voting block (and their most constant one to turnout) the educated professional class. They're stuck basically.

 

[Lexicus]

I can't speak for him directly but in general Democratic circles yes they absolutely blame both Republicans and leftists for the complete collapse of SCOTUS because it's simple math. Duverger's Law is 100% a fact in 1st past the post election systems like the United States. You ether vote for one of the two major parties that's closest to your views or you're effectively voting for the other side. This is why strategic voting is a thing. If Progressives didn't sit out 2000 or 2016 none of this would have happened in their view.

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In my opinion it's the candidate who loses who is most to blame for losing.

Btw, if you're going to talk about strategic voting then please don't pretend we have a national popular vote for the President. Strategic voting in the US is only a valid thing in like 5 or 6 swing states. Everywhere else you can vote how you want because it doesn't matter to the outcome.

 

[KMRblue1027]

In a 1st past the post system that's unfortunately the case, like i hate it myself but there isn't enough of a voting reform push by any side to abolish it. The systemic issues very often override any push for overall popularity as you rightly say the EC exists. There's more then 6 swing sates too if you count close ones that haven't flipped yet like Georgia unexpectedly did in 2020. FL, TX, NC are all pickups for a Dem candidate while VA and NV are for a GOP candidate.

 

[Gorbles]

No. Remember. It's two predictions. If progressives don't vote for Biden, Trump may well win. If Trump wins, he will certainly enact policies that progressives won't like. Roe is evidence for the validity of the latter of the two predictions.

It wasn't phrased as two predictions. It was phrased as a singular line, in a singular sentence to boot! I've quoted it twice now. But like I said, neither you nor I can answer what I've asked.

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

No. Remember. It's two predictions. If progressives don't vote for Biden, Trump may well win. If Trump wins, he will certainly enact policies that progressives won't like. Roe is evidence for the validity of the latter of the two predictions.

Is there anything predictable about those who previously voted for Trump? I guess some will move away from the center, and others will return to the center.

 

[Lexicus]

In a 1st past the post system that's unfortunately the case, like i hate it myself but there isn't enough of a voting reform push by any side to abolish it. The systemic issues very often override any push for overall popularity as you rightly say the EC exists. There's more then 6 swing sates too if you count close ones that haven't flipped yet like Georgia unexpectedly did in 2020. FL, TX, NC are all pickups for a Dem candidate while VA and NV are for a GOP candidate.

You are imagining FL and TX as swing states? Dream on...

 

[innonimatu]

I don't disagree with this. Obama is a huge traitor to the people who voted for him. However, I think you are overstating the influence of the permanent bureaucracy/deep state/CIA in recent elections. If they considered Trump to be a genuine threat to their future, Trump would have committed suicide through five bullets in the back of the head by now. And Trump is even more willing to engage in lawfare than the Democrats or the permanent bureaucracy is. I think that Trump's willingness to "drain the swap" is mostly an act, I don't think he'll come close to implementing Project 2025 because he won't want to.

The Democrats and the Republicans are both effectively the party of the bourgeoisie. The Democrats are the party of bourgeoisie who wish to uphold the status quo, "Nothing will fundamentally change". The Republicans are the party of bourgeoisie who dream of Fascism. I really think it is that simple.

I think there is a pretty big faction, concentrated among the lower hierachy but those are the ones executing operations, who supports Trump. And cannot be commanded either to murder him, or to stand quiet if he is murdered. Down that path starts civil war. Which is why it hasn't happened and is unlikely to happen.
As much as the upper bureaucracy hates Trump personally, they expect to outlive him anyway. The guy is old.

 

[Arwon]

Strategic voting in the US is only a valid thing in like 5 or 6 swing states. Everywhere else you can vote how you want because it doesn't matter to the outcome.

Internalising this single piece of nuance would make US political discourse among the non-insane share of the US population so much more bearable.

 

[innonimatu]

The odd thinh with american politics, among those of contemporary western countries, is why it is taking so long for new parties to emerge. The last big crisis, covid, showed that the TINA discourse of both parties was false. It was possible to do stuff like closing borders or transfering wealth to the poorer. Trump's personal appeal is the future election, now that he is no longr a newcomer, probably rests on that more than anything else: people will remember the federal government did intervene with direct subsidies to the population, no qualifications demanded. And that Biden was the one cancelling the checks.

 

[Birdjaguar]

The odd thinh with american politics, among those of contemporary western countries, is why it is taking so long for new parties to emerge. The last big crisis, covid, showed that the TINA discourse of both parties was false. It was possible to do stuff like closing borders or transfering wealth to the poorer. Trump's personal appeal is the future election, now that he is no longr a newcomer, probably rests on that more than anything else: people will remember the federal government did intervene with direct subsidies to the population, no qualifications demanded. And that Biden was the one cancelling the checks.

What policy positions would a new party assume that would make it worthy of 20% of the electorate?

 

[Narz]

Are you a Christian? Why aren’t you trying to convert people in the third world right now?

What's that got to do w my question?

If you read my posts you know the answer to that.

 

[Comrade Ceasefire]

What policy positions would a new party assume that would make it worthy of 20% of the electorate?

Free beer and free assault rifles?

 

[Zardnaar]

Free beer and free assault rifles?

And cheese.

 

[NinjaCow64]

What's that got to do w my question?

Because the question is as absurd as the one you asked me.

Again - we don't all need to be Che Guevara to think that Socialism is good.

Additionally, one of the reasons that the west sucks is because it is ruining every part of the planet. If it was as easy to opt out of global capitalism by moving to China or something then millions would have done it already.

 

[Zardnaar]

Because the question is as absurd as the one you asked me.

Again - we don't all need to be Che Guevara to think that Socialism is good.

Additionally, one of the reasons that the west sucks is because it is ruining every part of the planet. If it was as easy to opt out of global capitalism by moving to China or something then millions would have done it already.

Lol China isn't socialism and it's only doing as well because they moved away from it after Mao impoverished them.

There's even less safety net there than in those evil capitalism countries.

It's not that socialism is bad it's an admirable ideal. Attempts to implement it however always end the same way for sone strange mysterious reasons.

And CFCs residents "socialists" defend the indefensible and lean more towards wannabe authoritarianism.

They're not out to fix the world just want to rule it.

And a lot of attempts to implement said socialism were also environmental disasters as well.

Alot of projection also going on. Capitalism vad therefor socialism good with jo thought how to get from A to B.

Real socialists do discuss that there's no real attempt here at CFC even amount yourselves. We know why.

 

[Narz]

Because the question is as absurd as the one you asked me.

It's a legit question.

You hate the west (your words). And for now you get to enjoy the spoils of living there so presumably if you play your cards right in life you can talk your "west" money and privilege and eventually move somewhere else either to make a positive difference or for your own quality of life (or both).

Was inquiring what societies you were most impressed by and might want to live in.

 

[NinjaCow64]

Real socialists do discuss that there's no real attempt here at CFC even amount yourselves. We know why.

What "real socialists on CFC"? What are you talking about?

It's a legit question.

You hate the west (your words). And for now you get to enjoy the spoils of living there so presumably if you play your cards right in life you can talk your "west" money and privilege and eventually move somewhere else either to make a positive difference or for your own quality of life (or both).

Was inquiring what societies you were most impressed by and might want to live in.

I believe I have answered that question - I cannot escape the west's influence by moving. Real life doesn't work like that.

 

[Zardnaar]

What "real socialists on CFC"? What are you talking about?


I believe I have answered that question - I cannot escape the west's influence by moving. Real life doesn't work like that.

Long on gotcha moments not much debate about socialist movement, theory or ideas.

Just USA bad, yay authoritarianism. Same song sheet.