[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: War News Thread: Round 6

[Birdjaguar]

Benefits to Selenskyj by destroing the dam:

• Destroy more major infrastructure in order to deprive Russian military and civilians of electricity Never been a part of the UA strategy. Their goal has been to preserve necessary infrastructure whenever possible.
• Enables UA to redeploy more troops to the main counter attack (Bachmut region and others), because the Kherson area does not need much defending for weeks or even months Could be, see below
• Shortens Ukrainian offensive/defensive lines by 60 miles, enabling them to concentrate their firepower See below
• Puts nuclear plant possibly at risk, so if it should get critical he can blame it on Russia Ah yes, severely pollute Ukraine for many years so he can blame Russia this week.
• Makes life for Ukrainians on the Russian side of the lower river more miserable and likely refugees Yes, real leadership: make your people miserable and force them from their homes
• Creating chaos and binding resources from local authorities and soldiers This does not make any sense what does it mean?
• Getting more weapons and $ from the west, by blaming the destruction of the dam on Russia The weapons are coming anyway because of Russia's previous destruction of Ukraine

You mirroring attempt doesn't actually work because Russia and Ukraine are not the same and each has very different war goals. The destruction of the dam has very real long term consequences that are not offset by supposed short term gains. How long do you think it will take to repair the dam? How long has it taken Russia to fix the Kerch bridge under conditions that are essentially peaceful?

The UA has not had the opportunity to position demolition charges to blow up the dam. The Russians have. There has been no evidence that the dam was destroyed by any type of air attack. Zelensky has spent months trying to keep Ukrainian infrastructure intact; blowing up a huge and important piece of it makes no sense at all. As for destroying the dam in order to free troops for the new offense the cost benefit ration seems very far out of balance. The dam was a huge and valuable asset to the nation that is not easily replaced. Destroying it to limit the range of their offensive actions seems like a poor military decision. They would want to keep Putin guessing where the attack will come and not narrow the possibilities.

 

[red_elk]

The dam was a huge and valuable asset to the nation that is not easily replaced.

Under claimed and de-facto control by Russia. And to be restored on Russian taxpayers money, unless you suggest Russia is planning to leave the territory.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Under claimed and de-facto control by Russia. And to be restored on Russian taxpayers money, unless you suggest Russia is planning to leave the territory.

Yes, it was under Russian control which makes it less likely that the UA destroyed it. Who will rebuild it is a very open question. Has Putin said he plans on rebuilding it? I think they destroyed it as an fu message that just continues the ongoing destruction of everywhere they have occupied since Feb 2022.

 

[red_elk]

Has Putin said he plans on rebuilding it? I think they destroyed it as an fu message that just continues the ongoing destruction of everywhere they have occupied since Feb 2022.

I don't see "ongoing destruction of everywhere they have occupied". Places which are far away from the frontline get restored, there were major investments in the infrastructure of Crimea.
Tavrida highway, Sevastopol airport, Kerch strait bridge - just few examples. You didn't see all this, because it's not reported in Western media

Mariupol gets gradually rebuilt too. A lot of videos and reports, but mostly in Russian

On the other hand, Ukraine clearly doesn't hesitate to destroy civilian infrastructure in Donbass towns.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I don't see "ongoing destruction of everywhere they have occupied". Places which are far away from the frontline get restored, there were major investments in the infrastructure of Crimea.
Tavrida highway, Sevastopol airport, Kerch strait bridge - just few examples. You didn't see all this, because it's not reported in Western media
Mariupol gets gradually rebuilt too. A lot of videos and reports, but mostly in Russian

Someone shouts at Putin in Mariupol: "It’s all lies. It’s all for show"​

The fragment made it onto a video posted on the Kremlin's website and also posted by many Telegram channels.
In the video recording of this meeting, someone from the side can be heard shouting in the direction of Putin and his entourage: "It’s all lies! It’s all for show!". Thereafter, the security of the Russian president began to look around in all directions.
The Russian president allegedly flew to occupied Mariupol from Crimea on the night of 19 March.

Someone shouts at Putin in Mariupol: "It’s all lies. It’s all for show"

During the visit of Russian president Vladimir Putin to the occupied Mariupol and his communication with alleged residents, someone shouted: "It's all lies. It's all for show". Source: Kremlin website, Latvia-based Russian media outlet Meduza Details: This happened when Putin stopped in the...

news.yahoo.com

‘It’s like the USSR’: residents on life in Mariupol a year since Russian occupation​

The shops are primitive and the prices astronomical,”
portraits of Vladimir Putin and the leader of the self-proclaimed republic in Donetsk, Denis Pushilin, hung on the walls of offices and schools.
The occupying authorities pulled down more than 300 blocks of flats which were destroyed when Russian forces besieged and pulverised the city. The centre was now an “empty wasteland”, a resident said. “To me it looks awful. There are craters. Everything is mutilated.”
Flats had been given to collaborators. A few five-storey residential buildings had been repaired, with electricity, gas and other services mostly restored.
Residents claimed the death toll in the city was 100,000-120,000 – a figure significantly higher than the official toll of 21,000 given by Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s government. One person said 25% to 30% of their friends and acquaintances had perished.
Residents estimated about 50,000 Russians had relocated to Mariupol, from Moscow, St Petersburg, Samara and other cities. “These incomers don’t have any idea of what happened. They watch propaganda on TV and think we were rescued from neo-Nazis,” one person said.
“The brainwashing is very strong,” one person said. “Children are told Russia’s president is the best, and Ukraine is full of bad people and fascists. It’s like the USSR
“I have not come across it. People are arrested and tortured and taken away,” one current resident said

‘It’s like the USSR’: residents on life in Mariupol a year since Russian occupation

People tell Guardian of ‘primitive’ living standards, propaganda in schools and constant risk of arrest

www.theguardian.com

 

[FriendlyFire]

Yes, it was under Russian control which makes it less likely that the UA destroyed it. Who will rebuild it is a very open question. Has Putin said he plans on rebuilding it? I think they destroyed it as an fu message that just continues the ongoing destruction of everywhere they have occupied since Feb 2022.

Our Russian friend is likely just Russian bot account used by several people
What is the point of posting a 12 second video showing 5 building and the rest of the city showeded in fog, even then anyone with eyes can see the wrecked collapased building that made it into the video
While proclaiming that Russia been rebuilding everything.

Especially since Red has repeatly insisted that West media manipulates, Lies and distorts everything
Yet he NEVER seem to apply this to Russia media even when the lies are ovious

 

[keli]

Benefits to Selenskyj by destroing the dam:

• Destroy more major infrastructure in order to deprive Russian military and civilians of electricity
• Enables UA to redeploy more troops to the main counter attack (Bachmut region and others), because the Kherson area does not need much defending for weeks or even months
• Shortens Ukrainian offensive/defensive lines by 60 miles, enabling them to concentrate their firepower
• Puts nuclear plant possibly at risk, so if it should get critical he can blame it on Russia
• Makes life for Ukrainians on the Russian side of the lower river more miserable and likely refugees
• Creating chaos and binding resources from local authorities and soldiers
• Getting more weapons and $ from the west, by blaming the destruction of the dam on Russia

This doesn't pass the sniff test.

1) Destroy more major infrastructure in order to deprive Russian military and civilians of electricity
How? The Dam was already offline. Why would Ukraine be interested in destroying its own electricity?

2) Enables UA to redeploy more troops to the main counter attack (Bachmut region and others), because the Kherson area does not need much defending for weeks or even months
It also enables Russia to redeploy all forces to Eastern Zaporizhzhia. Nobody expected a Russian landing in Kherson and the army with the worse logistics can move its forces to an actual position they want to defend is much more advantageous than adding additional attackers by Ukraine. Sorry, this is just illogical.

3) Shortens Ukrainian offensive/defensive lines by 60 miles, enabling them to concentrate their firepower
So it does for Russia as well. See point 2.

4) Puts nuclear plant possibly at risk, so if it should get critical he can blame it on Russia
So why would Ukraine be interested to blow up its own nuclear power plant in the middle of the country that's also the largest in Europe?
Furthermore:

5) Makes life for Ukrainians on the Russian side of the lower river more miserable and likely refugees
And why is this good for Ukrainians? I don't see the point? Are you just putting random words one after another? You are lacking logic.

6) Creating chaos and binding resources from local authorities and soldiers
So it does for Ukraine as well?

7) Getting more weapons and $ from the west, by blaming the destruction of the dam on Russia
Finally something that at least logically makes sense.

 

[keli]

I don't see "ongoing destruction of everywhere they have occupied". Places which are far away from the frontline get restored, there were major investments in the infrastructure of Crimea.
Tavrida highway, Sevastopol airport, Kerch strait bridge - just few examples. You didn't see all this, because it's not reported in Western media

Mariupol gets gradually rebuilt too. A lot of videos and reports, but mostly in Russian

On the other hand, Ukraine clearly doesn't hesitate to destroy civilian infrastructure in Donbass towns.

1) You only invested into Crimea for military reasons. It's not like you care what happens to Crimeans. If you cared about the local population you wouldn't have annexed them in 2014. You can also see the investment into Donbass, which was/is ruled by warlords and gangs blowing up each other.

2) I will not address any Russian/Russia affiliated civilian deaths until you address what happened in Butcha, Mariupol, Kherson. Showing a few damaged houses while you send rockets daily against Kiev is pathetic, sorry. Oh, and also you blew up one of the largest dams in the world one day ago. Such as the Russian Mir. Nodoby cares about Russian hypocrisy anymore.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

On the other hand, Ukraine clearly doesn't hesitate to destroy civilian infrastructure in Donbass towns.

Are you actually claiming that Ukraine has destroyed more civilian infrastructure in Donbas towns than Russia?

Ukraine also restores places which are far away from the frontline. You know, after Russia targets civilian infrastructure which are far away from the frontline.

You didn't see all this, because it's not reported in Western media

Russia destroyed that same infrastructure it is restoring. It's more difficult to restore the lives of millions of Ukrainians it also has destroyed. And the thousands of lives it's destroying by opression in the occupied areas.

But you don't know about that because it's not represented in Russia media. You're liberating Ukrainians, am I right?

 

[Verbose]

Considering Ukraine has interest to damage Russian defensive positions on the left bank and that the flooding will last only several days, it has motives.
Also considering that Ukraine has been caught blatantly lying multiple times during this conflict and that it apparently started counter-offensive which doesn't seem to go well, everything points to Ukraine as perpetrator.

For Russia, the only outcome is additional problems with defense and with water supply in Crimea.

I said it a long time ago, and it is still the case: Your position on the entire situation is perverse.

 

[red_elk]

I said it a long time ago, and it is still the case: Your position on the entire situation is perverse.

Your position is ignorant and indoctrinated, same is also true for many posters here.

 

[keli]

Your position is ignorant and indoctrinated, same is also true for many posters here.

This is rich by a guy who posts propaganda videos about how nice the beach is in Mariupol after the city had been flattened.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Damages caused by Russia's invasion of Ukraine are estimated at $143.8 billion.

Guys! Guys! look! We restores some stuff we destroyed! We the good guys!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kherson residents flee under artillery fire after collapsed Kakhovka dam floods homes

Distraught residents of Ukraine's Kherson evacuated their homes under artillery fire on Tuesday after they were flooded by the rupture of a vast dam upstream in a disaster that Kyiv and Moscow have blamed on each other.

www.reuters.com

On Tuesday evening, Reuters reporters heard four incoming artillery blasts in close proximity to a flooded residential area in southern Kherson from which civilians were evacuating.

 

[saamohod]

Also considering that Ukraine has been caught blatantly lying multiple times during this conflict

Let me guess. "Ghost of Kyiv"?

 

[Fippy]

Why not put it on ignore?
Almost every day the same propaganda, sad enuf that pro-russian blabla made it's way into CFC but by constantly quoting & replying you just give them more attention.

 

[saamohod]

Why not put it on ignore?
Almost every day the same propaganda, sad enuf that pro-russian blabla made it's way into CFC but by constantly quoting & replying you just give them more attention.

By ignoring lies and propaganda you enable it.

 

[Lexicus]

Your position is ignorant and indoctrinated, same is also true for many posters here.

And here is why it's called the Iron Law of right-wing projection: it never fails

 

[Janskey]

Our Russian friends can probably confirm whether this is true

Meanwhile, last week, a Russian government decree suspended requirements to investigate incidents at energy infrastructure in occupied Ukraine.

From https://www.politico.eu/article/defiant-ukraine-dam-carnage-counteroffensive-kherson/

 

[saamohod]

Our Russian friends can probably confirm whether this is true
From https://www.politico.eu/article/defiant-ukraine-dam-carnage-counteroffensive-kherson/

Looks like authentic

Decree of the Government of the Russian Federation dated May 30, 2023 No. 873
"On the peculiarities of the application in the territories of the Donetsk People's Republic, the Luhansk People's Republic, the Zaporizhzhia region and the Kherson region of the provisions of the legislation of the Russian Federation in the areas of industrial safety of hazardous production facilities and ensuring the safety of hydraulic structures"

"Until January 1, 2028, a technical investigation of accidents at hazardous production facilities and accidents of hydraulic structures that occurred as a result of hostilities, sabotage and terrorist acts is not carried out, ” the last paragraph of the resolution says.

Постановление Правительства Российской Федерации от 30.05.2023 № 873 ∙ Официальное опубликование правовых актов

Постановление Правительства Российской Федерации от 30.05.2023 № 873 "Об особенностях применения на территориях Донецкой Народной Республики, Луганской Народной Республики, Запорожской области и Херсонской области положений законодательства Российской Федерации в сферах промышленной...

publication.pravo.gov.ru

It reminds me how Russia "classified manpower losses during non-war time" in 2014 or 2015, can't remember exactly.