SCENARIO: Age of Imperialism; 1895-1924, Deluxe Version

Angelle said:
One rather radical idea that I have include a continent specific resource that will limit or allow the building of some types of units. Let me elaborate.

Rather than splitting the world into an "Industry" half or "Colonialism" half, Why not have an "Africa", "Asia", "Australian", "America" and "European" sectors of the map. Rather than being able to build "Colonial Infantry" everywhere as long as there are "Colonialism", why not take "Colonialism" away from Africa (for example), put an "Africa" resource for the continent and allow the colonial powers to build African units rather than the generic colonial infantry. This way, we won't need the wonders to be built for the various askari units.

However, this will require a lot of work to be done, including revising the units' cost, units' stats, the wonders, putting in new resources and of course revising the boundaries to confine these resources.

If El Justo if interested, I'm willing to offer my help. A downside would be a delay in the launching of the latest version, but a few days of refining and tweaking I think will bring about a more than proportionate return in terms of gameplay and realism.
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Improvements and wonders are keyed to industry and colonialism. Continent-specific resources would negate all of that and put the entire building tree into complete chaos. There's not enough slots. Plus, you'd have African colonial buildings, Asian colonial buildings, South American colonial buildings, so on and so on, and that would be impossible to do.
 
Leobon said:
Improvements and wonders are keyed to industry and colonialism. Continent-specific resources would negate all of that and put the entire building tree into complete chaos. There's not enough slots. Plus, you'd have African colonial buildings, Asian colonial buildings, South American colonial buildings, so on and so on, and that would be impossible to do.
Click to expand...

Good point.

One way to deal with this is to utilize the formerly "dummy wonders" and turn them into continental specific buildings. This however will be very tedious.

A second method would be a tweaking of the unit resources requirement.

Indeed my idea requires more assessment before it can be considered for implementation. But generally, this idea can be seen as a sort of an extension of the Australia resource principle.

EDIT:

After some thought, I think that the best way would be to introduce generic continental colonial infantry. For example, all the colonial powers can build South American Colonial Infantry in South America with the South American resource. In India, the British can still build their own "British Indian Infantry", while the rest of the colonial powers can build a more generic "Indian Infantry". Of course, it's not as realistic to have a Portuguese "Far East Colonial Infantry" that has the same stats as a German "Far East Colonial Infantry", so why not, for the more powerful colonial powers such as Japan, France, Britain, United States and Germany to have their own unique "Far East Colonial Infantry", such as a "German Far East Colonial Infantry" or a "Japanese Indian Infantry".
 
Some mods have used that method; Germany, Australia, Japan resource, etc. But there is limitation of 32 strategic/luxury resources or problems in game develop. Also, like said, there is a 256 improvement limit (that even the .EXE Guru's SnY and Knuckles said they could not remove). So doing both colonial/industry and continental resources would probably overload Civ 3 modding boundaries. Plus, the whole scenario would probably have to be reworked from the ground-up. :)
 
Angelle, that is definately an interesting suggestion which would be a great starting point for a future mod.

Might that approach not work for the Australia issue though? There are already several australia specific builds that could be used to allow other civs to produce their own Australian units.

Just a thought.
 
tom2050 said:
Some mods have used that method; Germany, Australia, Japan resource, etc. But there is limitation of 32 strategic/luxury resources or problems in game develop. Also, like said, there is a 256 improvement limit (that even the .EXE Guru's SnY and Knuckles said they could not remove). So doing both colonial/industry and continental resources would probably overload Civ 3 modding boundaries. Plus, the whole scenario would probably have to be reworked from the ground-up. :)
Click to expand...

Too bad you can't mod those numbers but I guess that could have unforeseen problems, both good and bad. I do like his idea though.

A Question for anyone: When you go select an active player, you have the barbarians, a list of civs then you have the player slot. Well I'm going to focus on the latter two slots. What happens when you have both slots as say America and you place cities from both selections. What I do know is that side by side they are separated by borders. My question is what would these cities do? Would they be separate civs or what? Also please explain the active player screen.
 
B-29 Bomber said:
Too bad you can't mod those numbers but I guess that could have unforeseen problems, both good and bad. I do like his idea though.

A Question for anyone: When you go select an active player, you have the barbarians, a list of civs then you have the player slot. Well I'm going to focus on the latter two slots. What happens when you have both slots as say America and you place cities from both selections. What I do know is that side by side they are separated by borders. My question is what would these cities do? Would they be separate civs or what? Also please explain the active player screen.
Click to expand...

It will have no effect on gameplay whatsoever. If you look under Scenario Properties>Players in the editor, you realize that Player 1 is the British, Player 2 is France etc. If you switch Player 1 to France and Player 2 to Britain, you'll realize that when you go to set active player, Player 1 had changed to France. So advice is not to temper with the Player slots under the scenario properties, especially if the cities and units are being placed by the active player from the last slot rather than the second.

Leobon said:
I don't know if this is a problem for anyone else, but I've just realized in virtually all my AOI games, AI France builds virtually no Legionnaires... is this true for anyone else?
Click to expand...

There should be a wonder building the Legionnaires in North Africa.


EDIT: On a side note, for my idea, I've decided to go back to the drawing boards and see if it can actually work. Will come back with a detailed plan so at least this idea will have a working chance.
 
Angelle said:
It will have no effect on gameplay whatsoever. If you look under Scenario Properties>Players in the editor, you realize that Player 1 is the British, Player 2 is France etc. If you switch Player 1 to France and Player 2 to Britain, you'll realize that when you go to set active player, Player 1 had changed to France. So advice is not to temper with the Player slots under the scenario properties, especially if the cities and units are being placed by the active player from the last slot rather than the second.



There should be a wonder building the Legionnaires in North Africa.


EDIT: On a side note, for my idea, I've decided to go back to the drawing boards and see if it can actually work. Will come back with a detailed plan so at least this idea will have a working chance.
Click to expand...

Way ahead of you: I made the French Foreign Legion HQ in Algiers autoproduce Legionnaires. Still, France itself never seems to build them at all.
 
great comments all. thanks for sharing. i apologize again for not being able to answer all the remarks here. just so busy. by that i mean at work and at home. but i do read all of the responses :)

few remarks - it's just too much for me to revamp the resources. this would be a gargantuan effort that i'm not ready to tackle. now, i will say that if it ain't broke don't fix it. so keep that in mind. at the moment, i'm satisfied w/ the resource isolation. could it be better? maybe. but too much work for too little in return imo.

haven't gotten out of africa yet for my updates. this isn't so bad though. i was able to plug in all of the new wonders that spawn askari units in east africa (germans, brits, italians). now, it'll be a little different for this new version in that the pre-placed wonders in africa like German E Africa will now spawn 1st gen askari units. this means that there'll be an 1895 version (with long intervals between spawns, like 30-45 turns in between depending on quantity of btln's at the time of ww1 - this is how i quantified it based on the autoproduction) and a ww1 version. i'll likely pre-place a few 1895 versions for the germans, brits, and italians since they had them in place by 1895 (in small numbers, ie 2 or 3 of them pre-placed). brits get a pre-placed wonder in Nairobi that spawns their 1895 askari every few dozen turns and then they can build the King's African Rifles HQ here (british east africa wonder as pre-req, 110% guaranteed it gets built in nairobi). italy gets Italian East Africa which spawns its 1895 ascari every few dozen turns and then a wonder for their ww1 ascari too. germans retain their askari unit but get the extra generation like the brits and italians.

france also gets 2 generations of their Senegalese Tirailleurs.

all wonders and the civp entries for all units and buildings are done for these. lots of cross checking for this stuff makes for bleary eyes :)

i think i've made up my mind on the barbarian additions for this new version. in they'll go. want to try to simulate separatist/insurgent/rebel encounters across the globe. still combing through it all atm but sudan, german sw africa, indonesia, cuba, philippines (great way to replace these two since they got axed as civs) are all on the plate. there's more of course. just need to comb through it all. will take some time to do though. be patient :)

i never estimate release dates. it's just not prudent (for me at least). all i can say atm is that i'm plugging away, making progress, and haven't hit any road blocks yet. so that's all good news. may take a few months to be honest. but you never know.
 
How are you going to incorporate the barbarian/separatist/insurgent/rebels?:confused:

Perhaps isolate cities for them with impassable terrain and allow their units to cross it. Granted they would never be destroyed, but that would further simulate the thorn in the side they were.:cool:
 
El Justo said:
i think i've made up my mind on the barbarian additions for this new version. in they'll go. want to try to simulate separatist/insurgent/rebel encounters across the globe. still combing through it all atm but sudan, german sw africa, indonesia, cuba, philippines (great way to replace these two since they got axed as civs) are all on the plate. there's more of course. just need to comb through it all. will take some time to do though. be patient :)
Click to expand...

For "barbarians", my other suggestions would be Republican revolutionaries in China, Indian separatists, Vietnamese nationalists and maybe even Irish separatists.

As for the idea of continental specific resources, guess its best to leave it for now then. But I hope it'll open up ideas for further discussions in the future.
 
El Justo said:
great comments all. thanks for sharing. i apologize again for not being able to answer all the remarks here. just so busy. by that i mean at work and at home. but i do read all of the responses :)

few remarks - it's just too much for me to revamp the resources. this would be a gargantuan effort that i'm not ready to tackle. now, i will say that if it ain't broke don't fix it. so keep that in mind. at the moment, i'm satisfied w/ the resource isolation. could it be better? maybe. but too much work for too little in return imo.

haven't gotten out of africa yet for my updates. this isn't so bad though. i was able to plug in all of the new wonders that spawn askari units in east africa (germans, brits, italians). now, it'll be a little different for this new version in that the pre-placed wonders in africa like German E Africa will now spawn 1st gen askari units. this means that there'll be an 1895 version (with long intervals between spawns, like 30-45 turns in between depending on quantity of btln's at the time of ww1 - this is how i quantified it based on the autoproduction) and a ww1 version. i'll likely pre-place a few 1895 versions for the germans, brits, and italians since they had them in place by 1895 (in small numbers, ie 2 or 3 of them pre-placed). brits get a pre-placed wonder in Nairobi that spawns their 1895 askari every few dozen turns and then they can build the King's African Rifles HQ here (british east africa wonder as pre-req, 110% guaranteed it gets built in nairobi). italy gets Italian East Africa which spawns its 1895 ascari every few dozen turns and then a wonder for their ww1 ascari too. germans retain their askari unit but get the extra generation like the brits and italians.

france also gets 2 generations of their Senegalese Tirailleurs.

all wonders and the civp entries for all units and buildings are done for these. lots of cross checking for this stuff makes for bleary eyes :)

i think i've made up my mind on the barbarian additions for this new version. in they'll go. want to try to simulate separatist/insurgent/rebel encounters across the globe. still combing through it all atm but sudan, german sw africa, indonesia, cuba, philippines (great way to replace these two since they got axed as civs) are all on the plate. there's more of course. just need to comb through it all. will take some time to do though. be patient :)

i never estimate release dates. it's just not prudent (for me at least). all i can say atm is that i'm plugging away, making progress, and haven't hit any road blocks yet. so that's all good news. may take a few months to be honest. but you never know.
Click to expand...

Well here's an idea you might want to look at: How about for the "fortifications" they act more like roads(graphically) in that by building Fortifications/trenches on two or more tiles adjacent to each other then it will be one continuos line of trench. If you say you can't/won't do it then that's fine. This is only a minor annoyance.

On a similar subject: May I suggest making a "How to" thread on modding? This would include an explanation of the tools on the editor(sadly Firaxis didn't include this), how to create different graphics and how to place your mod on the forum as a download and so forth.
 
B-29, i would love to be able to put something like that together and have thought about it in the past. but it boils down to either writing a manual on how to make scenarios or actually making them :) i prefer the latter :D joking aside, i've written some small posts about modding here and there but never anything comprehensive (although i do indeed have a method to my stuff).
 
Just a quick thought to those who wanted continental resources: You would have to put a resource next to every single city, as the one underneath it already contains colonialism/industry. It would mean almost every single tile has a resource. Autoproducing seems the best way to get specialized units, I think.

Also, about barbarians, will there be camps? How will you stop culture from dispersing encampments? But without camps, Barbarians will be overrun fairly quickly, unless there are so many placed at once that it is ridiculous to hold them back. This conundrum is my only doubt about putting in barbarians. Please tell me if you have found a way around this.

Some random nitpicking: Austria-Hungary is referred to as the Austrian(s) as opposed to Austro-Hungarian(s).
 
resource realigning is just far too much. consider all of the edits needed in the biq for units and buildings. it's just not worth it and doesn't add in any more imo. plus, the country resources are in already.

re the barbs - no encampments since culture has been doled out already. it will simply be a matter of pre-placed units. insurgencies have a shelf life, you know ;)
 
I added Portland in on the west coast
Spoiler :


I also moved st. louis over a square as it was on the east side of the mississippi. I changed charleston to Savannah. From what i've found it was more important and much wealthier than charleston. I changed charleston harbor to savannah cotton excchange. I think Omaha could get squeezed in as well. It was a pretty important railhead and had a major meat packing industry plus a population over 100,000 at the time.

Overhauled china
Spoiler :



I gave them a new unit: the Qing cavalry with a 9/5/3 stats a -1 hp. I did this because of all the light cav they would produce.
 
no changes anticipated in manchuria in terms of sealing it off. reason being that it just ain't feasible imho (we had these discussions before and all the same reasons kept jumping out at me). change whatever you like in personal versions but my personal version, the one that gets uploaded :), will not have it sealed off. looked at it again last night and made the decision. it was an easy one too :) sorry to those that may have stumped for it. change it in your own versions.

i don't want to add to the US side either. by that i mean she's got enough cities and is a straight beast already. Cincinnati went in and that is enough atm.

one more note on manchuria - added in a Kwantung Army HQ wonder for the japanese in manchuria. will spawn a kwantung inf every so many turns so long as the Japanese can capture the city that has the pre-placed wonder pre req.

last wonder - 36th (Ulster) Division HQ wonder available now to the Brits. removed Dublin from the map and replaced it with Belfast. do not want to go down the road of the irish civil war in this scenario nor do i even want to call the Irish Infantry the 'Volunteer' as it just doesn't have the proper connotation imo (they were the loyalist version of soldiers in northern ireland at the time). Ireland at this time is a very difficult entity to reproduce for civ3. so for simplicity's sake, and for the sake of not going down the path of the Irish Civil War, the spawned unit will be an Irish Infantry WW1, a regular part of the British Army and a part of Kitchener's New Army. Scots got their Highlanders in the last version so the Irish will get their due as well. long overdue imo :) special place in 'me heart for the Irish :love:
 
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