Science & Culture benchmarks

[KaptainK714]

I have had good luck(?) with CivV at the lower levels and am going to make the jump to deity.
What is a good benchmark for per turn science & culture? say years 1 AD, 1000 AD, 1500AD to know i am not falling behind say for space or cultural victory

 

[loki75]

I think it's better to speak in turns. I don't keep track, but I know I will lose if:
1- I have not reached education with NC around turn 100,
2- I have not more than 800bpt by turn 200.
These numbers will usually lead to science victory between turn 230-270.

 

[loki75]

More than bpt, you will need at least 6 unused GSs when you reach advanced ballistics.

 

[Crafty Bison]

For cultural, try to stick at an average of a policy every 10 turns. Should be a little slower to start and speed up towards the end. After the freedom finisher, it should be 6-7 turns from then on. Still being around on turn 300 is very precarious.

 

[Buccaneer]

For cultural, try to stick at an average of a policy every 10 turns. Should be a little slower to start and speed up towards the end. After the freedom finisher, it should be 6-7 turns from then on. Still being around on turn 300 is very precarious.

That is my benchmark for culture as well.

 

[Anelyn]

Am playing on epic speed, so I can't relate to your turns, but on epic, from modern era I would generate a policy between 10-15 turns (4 cities, going at 800-970 culture / turn in current game - depending if am on golden age or I can keep all cultural CS allies - there's loads of wars going around - and 149 happiness, capital has 52 citizens and still growing fast, but loads of unemployed citizens now despite all specialist slots filled and all tiles worked).

 

[TheSleepwalker]

For cultural, try to stick at an average of a policy every 10 turns. Should be a little slower to start and speed up towards the end. After the freedom finisher, it should be 6-7 turns from then on. Still being around on turn 300 is very precarious.

I'm at a point where I can get my culture to about a policy every ten turns or less, which I'm happy about.

I think it's better to speak in turns. I don't keep track, but I know I will lose if:
1- I have not reached education with NC around turn 100,
2- I have not more than 800bpt by turn 200.
These numbers will usually lead to science victory between turn 230-270.

But in games where I'm trying to focus on a science victory, I still can't figure out how to get my science anywhere close to these numbers around turn 200, for the life of me.

 

[Buccaneer]

But in games where I'm trying to focus on a science victory, I still can't figure out how to get my science anywhere close to these numbers around turn 200, for the life of me.

Try this by around turn 200-220:
- 4-5 cities each with 10+ pop
- each with university and public school
- each running 3 scientist specialists
- Scholasticism policy
- 4 of the 5 policies completed in Rationalism
- 10 or so allied city-states
- probably a science-centric belief or two

 

[TheSleepwalker]

Thanks for the tips!

Out of all of those points, my biggest failings are keeping allied with city states and timing my Rationalism policies properly.

 

[Jigokuro]

I also play deity for science and I am missing clearly something in the mid game. I'll have NC on 8x and education by 11x and jump right on universities and RAs. Typically not multiple at once but normally 4 will be started by 13x and at least 3 of those I'll be able to just keep renewing (someone will backstab). I enter the Renascence by Oxfording astronomy and immediately build observatories (all town are by mountains) everwhere. As far as I can tell I hit every early benchmark terrifically and miss nothing after...
However, I'm never anywhere even close to hubble at 200. I'll have barely gotten scientific theory by then, satellites is more like 22x!
Any ideas what I'm missing in between? maybe more culture to get the 3rd rationalism (+RA) faster? That alone couldn't be it...

 

[The Pilgrim]

I also play deity for science and I am missing clearly something in the mid game. I'll have NC on 8x and education by 11x and jump right on universities and RAs. Typically not multiple at once but normally 4 will be started by 13x and at least 3 of those I'll be able to just keep renewing (someone will backstab). I enter the Renascence by Oxfording astronomy and immediately build observatories (all town are by mountains) everwhere. As far as I can tell I hit every early benchmark terrifically and miss nothing after...
However, I'm never anywhere even close to hubble at 200. I'll have barely gotten scientific theory by then, satellites is more like 22x!
Any ideas what I'm missing in between? maybe more culture to get the 3rd rationalism (+RA) faster? That alone couldn't be it...

Not sure that Oxfording Astronomy is the best with multiple cities. It's one more RA you need later on. In that regard, ideally you'll have ~4 RA's resolving by 140, not running before 130. In the perfect scenario they'll clear Scientific Theory and the second wave will grant you Plastics and Research Labs 30 turns later. This way you get the Hubble with no competition by 200 and ~220 finish.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Out of all of those points, my biggest failings are keeping allied with city states and timing my Rationalism policies properly.

Everything is map and level depended. You don't really need Patronage and CS to hit these numbers if your cities are big enough. If you're teching fast enough to unlock Plastics about this time, your bpt will be even higher. Scholasticism is helpful though. I've recently got 1000bpt at 210 with OCC and ~10 allies.

 

[Unresolved]

How do you guys get so many RA's? I can only get 1-2 DoF's a game. The other civs are friendly, but apparently not friendly enough.

 

[The Pilgrim]

What are you doing that pisses them off? Hover over relationship status and you'll see all diplo modifiers. If there are many red ones, they are not really friendly.

Rapid expansion, attacking CS under their protection, signing a DoF with their enemy, just being close, building wonders they want, allying CS they want, spying, having weak military, having strong military and using it effectively (i.e. attacking multiple times) - this is a partial list of things that aggravate AI. Avoid as many as you can. If you stay small and tall, yet have a decent defense, don't declare war on anyone, exchange embassies and play nicely, they usually come to you by themselves, you won't even have to ask them. Also, every game is different. Having lots of friends is not always possible. Although I had games when I was able to maintain DoF's with all 7 civs, but more often it's 3 or 4.

 

[Unresolved]

I didn't really do anything to piss them off. One of them was hostile in the beginning and DoWed me(on Prince, so not a big deal), but I didn't attack his cities. I held 4 cities all game, but only two of them ever DoFed me. Though half of them offered a DoF in the last 15 turns >.>.

Some of them coveted my lands I believe.

 

[Browd]

Sometimes land coveting and building wonders they wanted can make them grumpy enough to refuse DoFs, but not usually. Competing for the same CSs can also irritate the AI. Try buttering them up with some below-market trades and, more powerful (but riskier), denunciations of their worst enemies.

 

[Unresolved]

I think I'll try the below-market trades next time. One of the DoF's I actually made was with the guy everyone else hated .

 

[Browd]

Yeah, DOFing everyone's enemy is counter-productive.

Since the AI can show up at random times suggesting DOFs, you need to keep an eye on the Global Politics screen (at least every 5 turns) and actually read the pop-up notifications about interactions between other civs.

Or use InfoAddict.

 

[Unresolved]

Hmm, I'll keep a closer eye on that stuff. Thanks for the help

 

[The Pilgrim]

Check the modifiers next time. You'll get clues for sure. Signing a DoF with civ that is hated by everybody else is a good enough reason to leave you diplo-isolated. Make sure you look at Global Politics screen from time to time to know who hates who and who is the most popular of the bunch.

Some things have positive impact on relationships. Like liberating workers/settlers from barbs and returning them, signing DoF's with the same leaders they did, selling stuff for lower than full price, fighting against common enemy, denouncing the same leaders, sharing intrigue etc. Some are stronger, some are weaker (low price trades are rather weak, however altogether modifiers add up, so it can't hurt).

Diplomacy in Civ5 is far from being perfect, but it can be manipulated to your favor (to the extent, fortunately). But again, every game is different. Every leader is different. Some are hostile just because. Some were spawned next to you and covet your lands. Whoever covets your land will unlikely become a friend. If I remember correctly, you conquered a CS in one of your games? Don't know if it's the same game you're talking about, but capturing CS is the biggest no-no if you want to make AI friends.