SGOTM 11 - Team Newbie

[AlanH]

Welcome to your SGOTM 11 team thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game here, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest. I hope you enjoy the game.

The starting saves will become available on the SGOTM Progress and Results page on September 9th, at midnight, server local time.

Thanks again to Gyathaar for coming up with the variant and developing the map.

You are Shaka of the Zulus, and your mission is to dominate the World. The world is standard sized, but crowded with 13 rivals grouped into several power blocks locked into mutual protection pacts. You are out in the cold.

All victory conditions are switched on, but the winning team will be the one that achieves a Domination victory earliest. Domination is defined for this game as 75% of world land plus coast, and 75% of world population.

Here's the start.

​

Map Parameters
Playable Civ - Zulu
Difficulty - Emperor
Opponents - 13: America, Arabia, China, Egypt, England, France, Germany, India, Japan, Korea, Ottomans, Russia, Scandinavia.
World - Standard, Continents, 60% water, 4 billion years old, temperate
Barbarians - Roaming

The map is handbuilt, and therefore may not have a standard configuration.

Game mods:
The game uses the default rules as defined in the SGOTM Reference Thread, with the following modifications:

- Domination requires 75% of world territory and 75% of world population.

The SGOTM Mediterranean resources are included, as you can see from the starting screenshot. If you have played SGOTM 9 then you will be ready. Other players will need to download and unzip this small graphics mod pack. Details are provided in the SGOTM Reference Thread..

Please ensure that you have incuded the line: NoAIPatrol=0 in your conquests.ini text file.

Please visit the following links to ensure that you are adequately prepared, skipping references to PtW or Vanilla versions of Civ3.

The GOTM Reference Thread.
The SGOTM Reference Thread.

Notes:

A. ONLY Conquests version 1.22 (C3C) is supported for this SGOTM. All teams will compete for a single award.

B. All teams must play the sponsored variant - the laurels will be awarded for the fastest Domination victory. The wooden spoons will go to the team with the lowest final Jason score, having completed the game.

C. You MUST play from the start file assigned to your team. All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Enjoy your game

 

[socralynnek]

Signing in and (kind of ) out.

I will be on a short holiday from Saturday to the 18th, so skip me until then.
On 19th I can probably play.

My suggestion for a name: Team No-Team

 

[archphoenix]

hello, everyone, I am new to SGOTM, I know the game will be played by each member for several turns, but who in charge it, that is a who is the leader of this team?

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

Morning all. I too am on leave between Sept 16th and Sept 24th. So it would be good if the team order could take account of this. Thanks.

How many suggested team names do we have now? Thousands!

As for finding a team captain I suggest the guy with most SGOTM experience (don't know who that is).

Oh, and based on no calculations whatsoever I reckon we settle 1S.

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

I think we should call ourselves Team Newbie/Noobie/n00bie (however you want to spell it).

 

[archphoenix]

I vote on Team Newbie.
furthermore, I summarize the member:
archphoenix
1.Regent.
2.new to SGOTM.

Bucephalus
1) Emperor
2) No.

paperbeetle
1. Emperor
2. New to SG

socralynnek
1. emperor
2. more than once...

taxpayer's Money
1. Regent (despite PaperBeetle's kind, but optimistic promotion to monarch)
2. New to this lark.

Wardancer
1) Emperor
2) Succession game n00bie

so socralynnek must be the captain.
but he ia away until 19th, so I perfer someone will stand up to elect himself.

 

[PaperBeetle]

PaperBeetle signing in.
I support both the name Team Newbie (although, despite early reservations, I was starting to like the poetry of the One Eyed Teddies) and the nomination of socralynnek as captain. I can play Protector to the Throne until his return from exile. Ya, I mean holiday

Incidentally, Wardancer is currently on holiday too. He is expected to return to the wired world on Saturday or Sunday. The guy is a fast dom specialist, which should be handy in this game, and I also rate his choices of early town placement (of course, we can all discuss that at great length anyway, yummy dot-maps!), so perhaps we can fit him into the team order at a point when we expect to start churning out settlers?

 

[Bucephalus]

Bucephalus checking-in. I'll go with the flow re. names, and leader choice.
I've not played SGOTM before, but I have some SG experience.
Should be a lot of fun.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Ah excellent. Then feel free to correct me on SG etiquette. I have read some of the classics (like the GK2 Training Day and Sirian's no-workers game), but never actually participated.

 

[Bucephalus]

Ah excellent. Then feel free to correct me on SG etiquette. I have read some of the classics (like the GK2 Training Day and Sirian's no-workers game), but never actually participated.

OK, no problem.

It is usual practice that, before any gameplay, the team agree's on some ground-rules regarding which decisions may be made unilaterally, and which require team consultation and approval.

The former commonly includes such things as battlefield stuff, worker turns, buying/selling resources, trading techs, etc. (of course, these decisions will still be made within the framework of the agreed overall game strategy).

The latter commonly covers War declaration, MA's, ROP's, and anything else which may represent a major policy shift.

Hope this helps.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Sounds like a good framework. A tactics verus strategy kind of thing. I would suggest putting most per-turn deals into the latter (consult) category, as they represent either a long-term comitment or a permanent comitment (to having a damaged rep).
And research choices too? Our research path pretty well defines our overall strategy...

My expectations/thoughts about the game:
- For the MPPs to have the most impact on the game, the members of each bloc should not be spread over different continents, or we would just organise dogpiles like we would in any normal military game.
- So I think our map is several continents, each with one or two MPP blocs. Then when we attack another civ, we really have to deal with their friends too.
- When the AI calculates its strength, does it also include the strength of its pact-buddies? That would put us in increased danger of being dowed, and make it harder for us to sue for peace.
- The AI won't fight each other, and as a result tech will be fast. I would expect cavalry to be the weapon of choice for much of our warring.
- But then cavalry was the natural choice in the last SGOTM too. Would Gyathaar make this game so similar?

 

[archphoenix]

I have no SGOTM exp, but I have read parts of certain sgotm10 thread.
I wish that war happen between AI-group,that will be great.
for cavalry, I think too long to get it. maybe no more 5 citys we settle, before we have to declare to claim more tiles.

 

[PaperBeetle]

If we find more than one bloc on our landmass then certainly we must cause war between them at all costs. In fact, that is so powerful that I think there will be only one bloc per landmass. Which would mean either there are many civs per MPP, or many continents. Well, we will see...
Causing wars between continents would be handy too, of course. I wonder if the continents are seperated by sufficient water that they cannot be introduced to each until Astronomy.

I think you are right that land will be tight with so many rivals, although we have a low water level, at least. So yes, we will surely be fighting on our continent before cavalry. I was worrying that when we get overseas, the other continents have Gunpowder already. If that is so we may be best served by going on to cavalry.

Also, the land we see here at the start is good for fighting, not researching. But we know so little about it . The fundamental question: is that water fresh or salty? Either way, we surely want to settle next to it, but the immediate issue is whether the moo can be irrigated.

 

[Taxpayer'sMoney]

I agree with PaperBeetle - we need the locked alliances in wars against each other. Although my experience of getting Civs to fight each other suggests that rather than our allies actually doing damage to our enemy, they are at least not doing damage to us (or trading between themselves).

I reckon diplomacy/trading is going to be a big part of this game. Personally I think we'll need to secure plenty of luxuries that we can use for the purposes of buying our friends into war.Also we'll need to protect our reputation. As usual we should look to act as tech brokers early on so some early naval exploration (that's mapping the seas, not examining our belly buttons) will be required. All the more reason to settle next to the water, even if it is coastal.

One question: Do you think it's possible that the one civ from two different locked alliances could sign an MPP together? That could be painful...

 

[Bucephalus]

I wonder if , upon meeting a civ, will we also then 'know' that civ's pact buddies? If not, in the event of going to war with that civ, how could the allies declare war on us, a civ that they haven't met?

 

[socralynnek]

I am fine with being captain, I have the same position in the current Civ4 SGOTM2 in our team.
This will probably be my last post before my small holiday.

My thoughts on how to play:
- First player plays 20 turns, others 10, maybe in later game 5
- Use common sense: if there is a really important decision, then stop playing and ask the team
-Take your time to play and don't rush it, better play less than ten turns but play them carefully.
-Tell when you are away and your turn could come up s.t. you can be skipped
-Do detailed logs while you are playing
-Screenshots are nice for discussion
-The beginning of the game is decisive, so play carefully especially there although it might seem fast and easy.
-If the team decides for a playing style then stick to it, there is nothing worse than each player playing his own style as then it will be worse than each individual style.

Have I forgotten something? Surely I have...
BTW please also subscribe to this thread.

The roster (proposition):

PaperBeetle
Taxpayer's Money
Wardancer
archphoenix
Bucephalus
socralynnek

Now to the game: It's hard to make a strategy when we don't know with whom we share our landmass. I'd move the scout S and then W to see whether the water is fresh. If so I'd probably Settle 1SE, otherwise maybe even in place.
Research: I wouldn't go for a Republic slingshot, maybe a Monarch slingshot considering the settings.

 

[PaperBeetle]

There is this exchange from the sign-up thread:

Is it possible to see these Mutual pacts from the beginning in the Diplo screen or does this need some IA Tech so we will have to wait and see who declares on us when we start a war?

You can see alliance relations in diplo screen from the start (after you meet the civs ofcourse). It has a seperate checkbox/line type

Which doesn't completely answer the question. I would imagine that when we meet our first rival, we won't automatically get contact with their friends. If we dow them, I presume their buddies do join the war, getting a "free" contact with us in the process. It might be a bit suicidal, but it would be a way to transmit contacts, which is not usually possible in C3C until Printing.
Also, I think we won't be able to see the MPPs unless we have embassies. That could cause some head-scratching if we find ourselves deciding whether to start an early war.

edit: a bit of cross-posting...
So, about the start... is anybody desperate to play the start, or desperate not to? And does anyone have thoughts on what to do?
The obvious place to settle is 1SE, so as not to squelch the beegee, worker improves the moo; but can it irrigate? If so, then we have a six-turn sword/settler combo factory on. If not, then I'm not so sure what the best course of action is.
Actually, as there is much that we don't know about the area yet, but that the scout can tell us, I suggest the first player does some scout moves, and maybe the settler, and then we have a team debrief on what was revealed...

 

[archphoenix]

@PaperBeetle
for socralynnek's roster, YOU are the first to play the first 20 turns.
I eager to play but exp hinder me and maybe who play will be no more difference.
for a theory of optimization, maybe we will spend 20 days to play 20 turns, the player move scout, then post a screenshot to discuss, and so on ... let me waste tens of screenshot
further more,
do we need to make sure these by asking in maintain thread?
1.all group contact each other at 0 turn so our POT and WC is useless for trade.
2.when we meet our first rival, we won't automatically get contact with their friends. If we dow them, I presume their buddies do join the war, getting a "free" contact with us in the process.
3.A1 in Group A can sign MPP with B1 in group B,so A and B merged..
by the way,
on tech,write is need to establish embassy, which need war alliance, so we maybe begin at alphabet MAX.

 

[PaperBeetle]

@PaperBeetle
for socralynnek's roster, YOU are the first to play the first 20 turns.
I eager to play but exp hinder me and maybe who play will be no more difference.
for a theory of optimization, maybe we will spend 20 days to play 20 turns, the player move scout, then post a screenshot to discuss, and so on ... let me waste tens of screenshot

Okay, I have the save. It runs okay . I'm nervous!
I'll post the result of the scout move as soon as I've summoned the courage to select that unit and move it... I might take you up on that one move per day theory. Well, in fact I guess I will spend Saturday posting up spreadsheets of possible starts, and then play the moves mostly on Saturday night / Sunday morning (gmt), stopping to report on anything that happens that wasn't predicted in the spreadsheet. Most likely, that is when the scout (or scouts) or meets another civ.

 

[PaperBeetle]

The Zulu scout heads down to the shore, takes out his canister, and lets it fill with water. Nervously he carries the canister back to Shaka, careful not spill the water. With the eyes of the Zulu nation on him, the great leader raises the canister to his lips, and takes a hearty swig. "Pgagh! This is salty!" Shaka exclaims, spraying the scout with seawater. "What am I supposed to do with this? Can I feed this to my cattle? Go now and find me sweeter water." And so the scout turns and strikes out to the East...



I went east because (a) the going is faster there, and (b) I wanted to know if the tile SW of the goats was a beegee. No such luck.
So now do we settle in place or 1SE? Socralynnek may be right; it is not so important to move to the coast, as we will have core towns on the coast anyway. I will make some spreadsheets.