Simple Question - Do you believe in a god?

[CurtSibling]

...just go nuts.

I think 99% of CFC are qualified to join too!

 

[Bill3000]

I believe in god. I'm an edenist. We believe, that we are not cast out of the garden of eden, because..well it's best summed up in our creed " I don't even LIKE apples!"

Therefore god gives us permission to sleep with whoever we want to, throw rocks at cops and just be general bastards to all we meet. We are the chosen people after all.

Screw atheism! I'm joining this religion right here and now!

 

[toh6wy]

I usually call myself atheist. However, to say that I know for absolute certain that God doesn't exist seems arrogant to me. And yes, it even seems a little bit arrogant to me to say with 100% certainty that the FSM doesn't exist, or that anything doesn't exist. Now, based on what I know and have observed about the universe around me, I feel I can say that such things seem extremely unlikely, but I hesitate to utterly rule anything out because it's impossible to conclusively prove the non-existence of something. The idea of a deity or higher power of some sort doesn't at all fit with my conception of the universe, so for all practical purposes, I live my life as if no such thing exists. Same goes for unicorns and leprechauns and gigantic ethereal toasters? or whatever.

 

[Corlindale]

I'm standing between Agnosticism and Atheism, trying to hold my balance long enough to decide which side to fall to.
I tend to answer this kind of question with "agnostic, leaning on atheist". Basically means that I'm not certain that there isn't some kind of "higher being", but I see no real reason to assume that there is.
I also think the idea of organized religion is fundamentally flawed, seeing as I would think religion is essentially a completely subjective matter, on which no objectively acceptable evidence can be produced.

 

[mdwh]

I am asking if you have belief in a god, or if you reject such thinking.
Another option is the believe it when I see it choice, agnosticism.

I didn't read your poll question that way - my belief when given evidence is a different question to my belief now.

I answered "no" because I don't believe in God - there's no "maybe", because I know that I don't believe. But I might be willing to change my mind when supplied evidence.

I usually call myself atheist. However, to say that I know for absolute certain that God doesn't exist seems arrogant to me. And yes, it even seems a little bit arrogant to me to say with 100% certainty that the FSM doesn't exist, or that anything doesn't exist.

I don't think any atheist in existence (even "strong atheists") would say those things though.

Just because I can't prove with 100% certainty that something doesn't exist doesn't mean I believe in it. And (for the strong atheists), if someone believes something is extremely likely (or unlikely), believing it to be true doesn't seem unreasonable, let alone arrogant (e.g., I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, or I believe my computer isn't made of jelly - is that arrogant?)

So yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with labelling oneself an atheist.

 

[Red Door]

Yes, I believe in the Lord, and his son Jesus Christ.

 

[puglover]

What makes Christianity right, but Judaism and Islam wrong?

Judaism falls short. It doesn't recognize Jesus' divinity as prophecied, and thus Jews are burdened with sin already paid for. They are only half right, in that the law applies to them, but the mercy is absent.

Islam, on the other hand, goes too far, Mohammed adding to the messages of Judaism and Christianity to suit his own culture.

Why is it surprising that prophecies made in a book come true later in the same book? This happens in stories from almost every mythology in history.

The same book? Most of the prophecies I refer to come from the Hebrew texts. Isaiah, Genesis, and Ezekiel all have messages which point to events in the gospels of the New Testament.

How is either the design of the universe or human altruism a clue that God exists?

The universe itself had to have a cause. And considering the fact that everything in this universe is in a state of decay, something outside the universe would have to be it's source.

Human altruism doesn't seem to have a rational place in the human condition. Survival of the fittest doesn't apply when a man throws himself in front of a train to save a child. I think this points to something beyond materialism, something supernatural that is the source of Good.

These are not "proofs" for God's existence of course, and before anyone asks, I am not claiming them to be proofs. But they are evidence for God, and I believe they are sufficent to rationalize my faith.

And also we love to brainwash our people, to make sure the social structures of our cultures remain where they are.

I do not know a single Christian who promotes the faith in order to brainwash people, or ensure their political power, and that's certainly not why I believe.

 

[CurtSibling]

I do not know a single Christian who promotes the faith in order to brainwash people, or ensure their political power, and that's certainly not why I believe.

Unfortunately, you do not know every one of the billion christians on Earth, do you?

Not everyone of your flock is squeaky clean and living by the book.

And some sects do indeed use brainwashing to ensure control.


...

 

[Tycoon101]

I believe in a god that cannot be understood... Yet. Humanity needs to gain more knowledge before it can properly understand the god.

 

[Gogf]

The same book? Most of the prophecies I refer to come from the Hebrew texts. Isaiah, Genesis, and Ezekiel all have messages which point to events in the gospels of the New Testament.

Fine. Why is it surprising that the second book in a series fulfills the prophecies of the first?

I don't see any reason to believe anything that the bible tells us.

The universe itself had to have a cause.

I don't see any reason to believe that.

And considering the fact that everything in this universe is in a state of decay

Huh?

something outside the universe would have to be it's source.

Your logic doesn't make any sense. "The universe is in decay" (which I would dispute), "therefore something else created it."

Human altruism doesn't seem to have a rational place in the human condition. Survival of the fittest doesn't apply when a man throws himself in front of a train to save a child.

If that child is a member of the same species as him, than it probably does.

I also wonder how many people would actually throw away their life to help a total stranger. I presume that people are much more likely to sacrifice themselves for their family, and for young children, both of which carry strong evolutionary benefits.

I think this points to something beyond materialism, something supernatural that is the source of Good.

Even if self-sacrifice doesn't provide any evolutionary benefits (which I suspect to be a faulty assertion), it's very possible that's it's merely a fluke of evolution that we have yet to evolve away from.

 

[Masquerouge]

Judaism falls short. It doesn't recognize Jesus' divinity as prophecied, and thus Jews are burdened with sin already paid for. They are only half right, in that the law applies to them, but the mercy is absent.

Islam, on the other hand, goes too far, Mohammed adding to the messages of Judaism and Christianity to suit his own culture.

Yet why are people still Jews, or Muslims, if Christianity is right?

 

[PrincepsAmerica]

Yet why are people still Jews, or Muslims, if Christianity is right?

What kind of question is that?

Why do people believe anything? What does the truth value of something have at all to do with what people actually believe?

 

[Masquerouge]

What kind of question is that?

Why do people believe anything? What does the truth value of something have at all to do with what people actually believe?

It matters when a religion pretends to have "the truth" and declares that other religions are false or incomplete.
And since most religions do this, you can thus see the logical problem. If there is truly a God, then all of them but one are actually right. Which one? You don't want to get that wrong.

Or, to put it another way, if you come to a place where each person tells you that only they have the truth, and all the others are lying, will you actually think that one single person in that place is right?

 

[puglover]

Unfortunately, you do not know every one of the billion christians on Earth, do you?

Not everyone of your flock is squeaky clean and living by the book.

And some sects do indeed use brainwashing to ensure control.


...

"Some sects" "you don't know everyone"

Somehow it seems your view of Christianity is more rabid conspiracy theory than accurate worldview.

Fine. Why is it surprising that the second book in a series fulfills the prophecies of the first?

I don't see any reason to believe anything that the bible tells us.

The books of the Old Testament were not written by the same people as the New Testament. Remember that the prophets lived at least 400 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, yet their prophecies were precise and fufilled by the life of Jesus.

I don't see any reason to believe that.

Everything else has a cause. It would be faulty reasoning to make the beginning of the universe an exception.

Huh?

There is no self-sustaining matter in this universe, and nothing lasts forever. In that case, how could anything material have brought the universe into being?

Your logic doesn't make any sense. "The universe is in decay" (which I would dispute), "therefore something else created it."

My assertion is that something exists outside of this material universe: the supernatural. To bring the universe into existence, the object/person in question must be timeless and self-sufficent, qualities no earthly matter has.

 

[puglover]

If that child is a member of the same species as him, than it probably does.

Why? After all, if not for morality, I could care less about my species if I were well off. And yet we care for others.

I also wonder how many people would actually throw away their life to help a total stranger. I presume that people are much more likely to sacrifice themselves for their family, and for young children, both of which carry strong evolutionary benefits.

Evolutionary benefits? A truly moral or heroic person gives his life for others regardless of such benefits.

Even if self-sacrifice doesn't provide any evolutionary benefits (which I suspect to be a faulty assertion), it's very possible that's it's merely a fluke of evolution that we have yet to evolve away from.

That'd be odd, considering how much we value it.

Yet why are people still Jews, or Muslims, if Christianity is right?

Because individual experience varies, and what is valid evidence for one may not be valid evidence for another.

It matters when a religion pretends to have "the truth" and declares that other religions are false or incomplete.
And since most religions do this, you can thus see the logical problem. If there is truly a God, then all of them but one are actually right. Which one? You don't want to get that wrong.

It certainly is a valuable truth.

Or, to put it another way, if you come to a place where each person tells you that only they have the truth, and all the others are lying, will you actually think that one single person in that place is right?

Happens in trials all the time. One person proclaims it happened one way, another witness says otherwise. Doesn't change the fact that there is indeed truth. Besides, who says all people of opposing religions are lying? Many are simply misinformed.


EDIT: Broke up an exceptionally long post into two long posts. Excellent discussion, all.

 

[Tycoon101]

Everything else has a cause. It would be faulty reasoning to make the beginning of the universe an exception.

Except for your God.

*Sidesteps the impending wave of rage*

 

[Gogf]

The books of the Old Testament were not written by the same people as the New Testament. Remember that the prophets lived at least 400 years before the birth of Jesus Christ, yet their prophecies were precise and fufilled by the life of Jesus.

I still see no reason to believe what the bible tells me. Unless you can give me convincing evidence that the New Testament was written without knowledge of the old (which I doubt that even the most fervent believers would argue), I don't see how this demonstrates the veracity of the bible.

Everything else has a cause.

Wrong. There are plenty of things in quantum mechanics that happen "without a cause."

It would be faulty reasoning to make the beginning of the universe an exception.

No, it wouldn't. It would also not be an extrapolation of every-day experiences onto the most cosmic of scales.

There is no self-sustaining matter in this universe

I'm not so sure about that. I'm not even sure scientists understand exactly what matter is. Can you give me a link to something sort of non-Wikipedia study that shows that there is no self-sustaining matter that we know of?

More importantly, you can't make a sweeping generalization about the entire universe based on the pitiful amount of matter we have actually come into contact with. We know that there are such things as anti-matter and dark matter, for example.

and nothing lasts forever

I don't see how you can know this. It's quite possible that the matter in the universe has been here forever. If it has, then, by definition, it has already lasted forever. Infinity is infinity, no matter which direction it extends in.

In that case, how could anything material have brought the universe into being?

I never said that anything material brought the universe into being.

My assertion is that something exists outside of this material universe: the supernatural.

I don't see any reason to believe this whatsoever.

To bring the universe into existence, the object/person in question must be timeless and self-sufficent, qualities no earthly matter has.

Why do you feel that wherever the universe came from must have been "timeless" and "self-sufficient"? What makes you think that no "earthly matter" posses these qualities? Why is your view of matter limited to that found on earth?

Why? After all, if not for morality, I could care less about my species if I were well off. And yet we care for others.

Evolutionary benefits? A truly moral or heroic person gives his life for others regardless of such benefits.

That's not how evolution works. Individuals are prepossessed towards behaviors that give their species an increased chance of survival.

That'd be odd, considering how much we value it.

Which, I think, is a reason to believe that self-sacrifice is an evolutionarily beneficial act.

Because individual experience varies, and what is valid evidence for one may not be valid evidence for another.

Why do you believe the "Gospel of Jesus" but not the "Gospel of Muhammad"?

 

[CaptainF]

I think the "I'll believe it when I see it" phrase doesn't really sum up agnosticism nicely enough.

Me personally, I'm one of those agnostics who is more likely to say "It can't be known one way or the other."

 

[warpus]

Everything else has a cause. It would be faulty reasoning to make the beginning of the universe an exception.

Random quantum fluctuations don't have a cause. The Universe is not deterministic.

 

[Gogf]

I think the "I'll believe it when I see it" phrase doesn't really sum up agnosticism nicely enough.

Me personally, I'm one of those agnostics who is more likely to say "It can't be known one way or the other."

That's not agnosticism. Unless you believe that there is equal reason to believe that God exists and that he does not, then I would classify you as either a "weak atheist" or a "weak theist." Your views haven't been proven correct, but they are the most reasonable conclusion.