Spoonwood's Hall of Fame Attempts

[Spoonwood]

It took a long time to get trade routes up on that map. So much so that by the time I had them up, I could only trade for one luxury. I didn't realize that the land on the right lead to the other AIs initially. A huge amount of territory settled:

Sigh.. it seemed weird that I had trade deals with The Ottomans, but couldn't trade gpt for Byzantinian gold at the normal rate. I had previously gone to war with Germany and Persia to liberate luxuries from Greece signing them into those wars, and it worked.

Later Sumeria got their network hooked up, and I had the same issue with the trade rate not seeming right. I signed a military alliance with Sumeria against Persia and Greece, and then the exchange rate was the normal 1 gpt for 18 gold of theirs.

Then I remembered I had been signing some RoPs looking for Greece or trying to get some lump sums of gold. I went back to an old save, and saw that I had an RoP with Greece that hadn't expired when I had started the wars. So, anyone I trade gpt with would need to stay at war with Persia or I get the 1 gpt for 3 or 4 gold rate. Alright, I'll try another map.

 

[Spoonwood]

I had a decent game going with the Inca for Large Deity Conquest. The first war went well. But, I kind of got in the mood where I don't want to kill all of the AIs. I guess I could come back to that one.

I started on a Sid Large 130k attempt with Persia. But, I kind of built too much infrastructure and it looked like I would face bombers eventually. I guess I could go back. But, I also kind of missed playing as agricultural.



I have a Huge Demigod 160k attempt with The Maya right now. It looks promising. I have done a fair amount of pillaging. I've also sometimes had the AIs give me gpt for a lump sum of gold. Then I buy the gold back in a military alliance against some other AI. It took me a long time to spawn military great leader. Maybe 30 elite victories and no military great leader? Then I got two MGLs in a row! And a third after one more elite victory in between.

Here's a screenshot of the luck I had in this one early:

We did research Literature after that. We didn't do any middle age research, trying to focus on infrastructure, but with Military Tradition nearing, we gave up on putting in culture for getting our military up. We researched Electricity in 5 turns and got an SGL! But, I used it on a university, since I didn't have an MGL yet. We're researching Replacable Parts. I've thought about researching Sanitation (some AI got Medicine... we got very luck in that in 3 AIs they got Steam Power and Medicine as their free techs), since justanick said elsewhere how he puts in hospitals to make it feel like more of a civilization. But, I don't know if I want to clean the pollution in a mass culture game. Once we learn Replacable Parts, highly corrupt areas will start their cultural builds.

 

[BlackBetsy]

I've thought about researching Sanitation

I have found that AI will hold off on Sanitation for a bit, it's less expensive that other techs, and that the AI will pay through the nose for it. Even though it's not required, it may even be worth researching in a high level science victory game for the ability to trade it for gpt or other techs.

By the way, the 100k culture game you lost to a misclick last month, that was a real masterpiece.

 

[Spoonwood]

I tried some starts with a maximum run on Writing. It's possible to learn it it in less than 50 turns on a Huge Emperor map, but just barely. So, I decided to go with the more standard 50 turn run on Writing. I wanted a kind of jungle/marshy start.

Huge Emperor Spaceship. Playing as The Iroquois against maximum opponents, with no one scientific.

3450 BC - Trade Alphabet for Ceremonial Burial and 10 gold.

2110 BC - Upon meeting France and England, our fourth and third contact with India and Arabia as the first two, we trade Pottery and Ceremonial Burial and 199 gold for Masonry. Trade Masonry and 18 gold for The Wheel. Trade The Wheel for 152 gold. Trade The Wheel for Bronze Working and 10 gold. Trade The Wheel for Warrior Code. We have horses one tile away from the capital.

1790 BC - Finish Writing.

1550 BC:

Also, trade Iron Working for Mysticism and 4 gold from Arabia.

And we have iron near our third city.

1500 BC - Meet The Hittites who have Writing and Horseback Riding.

1450 BC - Trade Mysticism and 175 gold for Mathematics from France. Trade Mathematics and 133 gold for Horseback Riding from The Hittites. Trade Horseback Riding for 175 gold from France. Sell Rome Mysticism for 57 gold.

1300 BC - Complete Code of Laws.

1100 BC - Learn Philosophy and The Republic. Do not revolt, since two settlers are about to finish.

1075 BC - Revolt and draw 5 turn Anarchy. The Hittites have Map Making, but it would cost both Code of Laws and Philosophy at the moment.

 

[Spoonwood]

I have found that AI will hold off on Sanitation for a bit, it's less expensive that other techs, and that the AI will pay through the nose for it.

I already have their gold and gpt. Mostly with deals like this, though this one makes for a small example and earlier I used luxuries not resources:

Babylon can only cancel if their declare on us (which will happen eventually, but not for a turn or two). Note also that ((10 x 18) + (3 x 18)) = (180 + 54). And (180 + 54) = 234. So, that's the optimum rate of exchange (though I don't always use the optimum rate). Then we make a deal like this:

Then with the capital pillaged out, Babylon stays at war, while also we get our lump sum of gold back (the science slider will get turned back up before the end of the turn).

To my surprise, there's still a huge amount of gold per turn from the AIs by this point on this Demigod Huge map. This isn't quite all of it at the moment, but most of the gpt comes from Greece in this screenshot:

Oh, I see 244 gpt and 56 gpt. I think I didn't have 5400 gold at the time. So, I loaned out what gold I had for that first bit of gpt. Then I pillaged and reroaded. Then loaned out the rest of the gpt. Then reroaded and maybe reacquired a luxury or resource (I do stop reacquiring a luxury or resource after a bit... but not before any wars start for sure).

If doing this, I recommend trying to keep around 7200 gold a few turns after the AIs learn Banking. Before I had the Military Academy and purchased armies, I would also change builds to horseman and then purchase iron or saltpeter and for a few turns less reroad iron or saltpeter. Then zoom to the city when a horseman build completes and upgrade to cavalry. With some we love the Expert Javelinist days in effect also, I think we had 7 cities that could make 30 shields per turn during the golden age, and a bunch that made 20 shields before that. Short-rush a worker even, then change to horseman, upgrade horseman to cavalry. Well, that's the most efficient way to do that sort of thing. Then purchase worker-armies later, or buy armies every other turn. Straight purchasing likely could be effective enough, instead of upgrading spearmen, horseman, and trebuchets. A massive battalion of units can get built that way, so long as you can get the capital... by which I mean gold... of course you will have a capital city or lose.

Even without pillaging, there's the possibility of taking out loans of gold for gpt to upgrade units. Especially if you could combine that with a military alliance. Finish the war before 20 turns ends, and then you can keep their gold. Or if you have a bunch of gold, loan out your lump sum of gold for their gpt. Then buy back the lump sum with a military alliance. Or if they waltz into your land and the military advisor tells you that they are stronger. Wind some AI with stupid demands. Make some gpt for hard good deal. And then tell that AI to leave or declare. Then you can keep the hard goods for free.

Use things like that, along with obtaining technologies also (getting all of their gpt helps to get technologies) and Sid level AIs look less dangerous... unless they attack you early. Well, I got conquered in 3000 BC by a Byzantine spearman the other day on Demigod, when my warriors went out to get contacts. So, it can happen.

By the way, the 100k culture game you lost to a misclick last month, that was a real masterpiece.

I think losing speaks for itself. But, thanks

Edit: I see that Babylon has one turn left on giving us 388 gpt. I may have seen more than 400 gpt once or twice, but I think I'd still recommend keeping at least 7200 gold in reserve once they have Banking. Maybe more for a bit if you have a lot of cannons to upgrade or something.

 

[Spoonwood]

Strangely I had started a Huge Emperor Spaceship (or was it Monarch?) game a few weeks ago. As Germany. Germany makes sense to me historically, since many of the early spaceflight engineers were German by birth, but had moved to the USSR and more so America for one reason or another. But, German's traits? They feel good for Always War. I've mostly played that sort of game on pangea maps, and Always War Emperor pangea sounds tough. Militaristic also didn't fit all that well with doing research early in my opinion. I mean, how does one use that trait? Go to war for more elite units and fight a lot. Except, that conflicts with doing research well, since early war isn't good for one's economy.

Finally, I remembered that militaristic also gives cheap harbors. So militaristic enables a bit faster growth and more commerce a bit earlier in each city. An archipelago map also then seems more fitting for more harbors getting built earlier. More elites might also get used for factories or spaceship parts instead of armies.

All scientific friends, Japan, and all agricultural friends/enemies. And it turns out that makes for a complete list. Sedentary barbarians.

I played around some with a lake start.

3050 BC - Finish Pottery, swap settler prebuild to granary.

3000 BC - Meet Enkidu spearman. Sumeria lacks Warrior Code. Trade Warrior Code for Ceremonial Burial and 10 gold.

2430 BC - Learn Mysticism from popped hut from the huns with our 2nd city. No military out so far.

1425 BC - Complete Alphabet.

I don't think I like not building military with a lake start especially. 60% luxuries at some points slows things down.

Watching some of them at Emperor level in debug mode. The AIs initially research at maximum. When do they start to use the tax slider, and why? It's probably infrastructure, though maybe they can change their tax rate on their turn to purchase technology? Some uneven amounts of lump sums gold appear due to trading.

2230 BC - After learning Ceremonial Burial, Sumeria this turn completes research on Mysticism.

1830 BC - Iron Working learned by The Aztecs and The Inca.

1750 BC - The Dutch learn Writing.

1700 BC - Japan has Horseback Riding.

I note Sumeria has 16 gold. Two cities each have one gold that they make. And I find the cause of them using the tax slider:

Babylon doesn't have a temple, nor does Japan, nor do The Celts.

Conclusion: Gifting AIs Ceremonial Burial earlier might slow down the tech pace, while also making them richer in the short term.

 

[Spoonwood]

Observing more I see Amsterdam complete The Colossus and start on a spearman due in 2 turns with 2 turns left to reach size 7, sitting on a lake. Then once the spearmen completes, a worker gets made. You did that backwards there William.

1000 BC - The Byzantines learn Map Making.

925 BC - Japan has Polytheism (no temples for them so far and still maximum research).

825 BC - Greece has Mathematics.

750 BC - Persia jumped from 30 gold to 138 gold. The Byzantines dropped from 76 gold to 0, but learned a few technologies. They have 7 temples. It doesn't look like they are sending Persia gpt, but have 70 or 80% science now.

The Maya in a coastal city complete The Pyramids.

730 BC - The Dutch start on The Great Lighthouse in an apparent cascade:

On the next turn Persia completes The Great Lighthouse.

670 BC - Babylon has Code of Laws!

550 BC - The Byzantines, Persia, and Babylon have Philosophy.

410 BC - Korea has Currency.

330 BC - The Inca have Monarchy.

70 BC - The Byzantines have Construction.

 

[Spoonwood]

I tried a few times with warriors scouting and sedentary barbarians, but barbarians just end up too probable. Barracks cost too much, I think, this early. I had planned to scout with a worker for a hut to pop for a settler.

But, it looks like the initial 7 turn worker even with some shield waste payed off:

 

[Spoonwood]

Hooray!

 

[Spoonwood]

1525 BC - Have two curraghs out. Also two huts close. Waiting to pop these until units no longer come as needed for military police. 2nd luxury about to hook up also:

 

[Spoonwood]

It won't last more than a single turn, but no luxury slider feels good.

1350 BC - Meet The Maya and The Aztecs. Trade the Maya Alphabet for Masonry and 16 gold. I had planned for 002 to put out a settler, but swap build to the Palace. Might be a little overrun on the Museum of Mausollos, unless I can get The Great Lighthouse.

1275 BC - The Aztecs have Writing.

1250 BC - Spot Mayan unit walking near our borders. Guess those huts need popped soon.

1225 BC - Meet The Inca who also lie on our home island. At least there doesn't seem as much motivation to keep these agricultural neighbors around. One city already having a granary starts on barracks. Sell Writing For Iron Working and 78 gold from The Inca. They have dyes. Trade Iron Working to The Aztecs for Ceremonial Burial and The Wheel. They have incense. No Lighthouse needed to trade for them:

1200 BC - Trade Code of Laws for Mysticism and 56 gold to The Inca. Start popping huts. The Inca complete The Pyramids.

1175 BC - The Inca have Polytheism.

1125 BC - Trade Code of Laws to the Aztecs for Horseback Riding and 1 gold.

1050 BC - Swap some tiles and it drops Philosophy from 2 turns to 1 turn. Learn Philosophy and revolt using "what's the big picture?" Start research on Literature. We drew 4 turn anarchy. Palace prebuild swaps to Museum of Mausollos, which still needs some time to finish.

1000 BC - Settle a city in range of horses and a fish.

Do you see how I'll get a worker in 1 turn, then a settler in 3 turns as the capital just grows to size 7 here?

925 BC - Meet Japan. Sell them Mysticism for 110 gold. We could have sold them Pottery. They also spices and we saw a warrior on our home island. These AIs don't look happy. Build an embassy with The Inca. I had waited on this deal before, but the Incan leader still is Annoyed. Trade him Philosophy and Horseback Riding and 6 gold for Polytheism. That takes him up to Cautious. Gift Japan Masonry taking them from Annoyed to Polite. Trade Mysticism to the Maya for 26 gold. That takes their leader up to Polite. The Celts complete The Oracle.

875 BC - The Inca swap their capital to the Temple of Artemis and have another city now working on the Museum of Mausollos. Pop hut just ahead of Incan scout. And unsurprisingly, it's more barbarians.

850 BC - The Inca have Map Making. The Lighthouse costs 300 shields, the MoM 200 shields. But, the MoM is scientific. And we have ivory. So, stick with the MoM. Still, trade The Republic to the Inca for Map Making and 37 gold. One settler starts walking towards iron. Spot a 2nd source of iron also.

825 BC - Museum of Mausollos completes. Start on Great Lighthouse prebuild for Statue of Zeus with Literature due in 2 turns, and Mathematics after that.

800 BC - Literature completes and start on Mathematics, projected in 5 turns. Oops... forget to get a worker from Japan that I saw they had with MapStat.

775 BC - Icey area starts on a harbor:

750 BC - Aztecs start on The Great Lighthouse.

730 BC - Join two workers to the tourist city. See Japan has ivory in their borders. The Byzatnines complete The Great Lighthouse.

690 BC - Learn Mathematics. Start research on Currency. 10 turns left on Statue of Zeus.

670 BC - Settle near an iron source which has a lake and a grassland cow.

 

[Spoonwood]

570 BC - Trade Philosophy to the Aztecs for Incense and 51 gold.

550 BC - Sign Right of Passage with The Inca, so we can road a tile or three to hopefully hasten luxury availability.

530 BC - Statue of Zeus completes. The free settler city starts on the little library, and the big library maybe next? Spot borders with curragh which seems to warrant moving back and a venture into deeper waters.

510 BC - Sell the granary in the 2nd city. Well now:

490 BC - The Inca start on The Hanging Gardens. Trade Mathematics to the Inca for 2 workers and 13 gold. Meet Persia from deep waters.

470 BC - Still wanting many more settlers and workers, queue up the capital. The scientific trait works nice for this sort of thing. Usually, I don't think quite this far ahead (and kind of only doing such more recently), but here:

One way to think about this which isn't quite how I think: the capital will go down to size 4.5 with the worker produced. Then it will finish the library at size 6.5. Then it will produce one worker while growing to end up at size 6. Then it gets more food, and goes back to size 5.5 having made a worker. Then it can produce a settler in 3 turns and end up resetting back to size 5.

Starting at size 5, the next part of the cycle would be a horseman. Then two workers to get back to size 5.5. Then a settler.

The first phase takes 4 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 8 turns. The second 3 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 8 turns also. The golden age will then be over, so it will go back to settlers and workers or start on it's marketplace.

470 BC - The curragh in deep waters floated. Copernicus rushes The Temple of Artemis.

We had used the luxury slider at 20% for one city, but now it can drop since this road will complete:

Temple of Artemis completes and start on The Great Library, which hopefully can change into The Great Wall, since it can be a less expensive tourist attraction. Cuzco completes The Hanging Gardens.

430 BC - Persia starts on The Great Library. Trade Philosophy to Japan for 157 gold.

Oh, our capital can get a little library in 3 turns:

The last row for the shield box isn't visible. But, personally I often look at the box and then see how it can line up or just be short or get a build in due to emphasize production, sort of counting geometrically.

390 BC - Learn Construction and gift Persia up, while getting their lump sum of 97 gold also. Trade them The Republic for Monotheism. Get everyone else The Republic, Currency, Construction, and Code of Laws. I could have done that earlier probably. It says 9 turns for The Great Wall after swapping from The Great Library. Get Feudalism as our free tech, and start on Theology.

 

[Spoonwood]

310 BC - We meet The Byzantines and trade them Construction for 175 gold. Feudalism gets traded for Engineering also. We gift them The Republic so that sooner rather than later we might manage to sell them technology for more gold. They do have a source of furs.

270 BC - Contact with The Celts gets made. They get technologies to build infrastructure and The Republic.

250 BC - We sell Japan The Republic for 47 gold. Our next contact has some gold:

We gift them The Republic and Construction also. Theology gets learned.

230 BC Our extra city completes The Great Wall. It starts on The Great Library, though some others have Literature and thus it's build may change.

190 BC - We Trade Feudalism for Dyes, 1 gold, and 22 gpt from The Inca. Also Feudalism to Persia for 166 gold.