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Just wanted to note that I haven't left this, I fully intend to come back to this when I get back from interstate adventures.
The DYOS Consul
- Thread starter Thorvald of Lym
- Start date
Well I'm about a month late to read the DYOS Consul. @CivGeneral. Don't worry too much about what others think, the point is to have fun doing what you love, even if I guess that means moving on from DYOS 
. If what you're making seems stale then why not do a full reboot? Start on a completely new angle or something? I don't know, it will just keep getting very lonely without you. You are to a large extent what keeps holding up DYOS
. If what you're making seems stale then why not do a full reboot? Start on a completely new angle or something? I don't know, it will just keep getting very lonely without you. You are to a large extent what keeps holding up DYOS
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Later tonight (my time), I'm going to post up my decision on whether or not to return to DYOS or not.
As for the last sentence, despite the vitriol atmosphere, I'm surprise that I'm still relevant.
To be quite honest, I've involved myself with a community that's far more friendly and supportive than what I found here. I used to find making comics for DYOS fun, but now, I see myself as a....scapegoat creator and blamed for it's downfall. It's no longer fun contributing when people say my comics are not interesting and have a "strong dislike" for them. It just....saps any remaining enthusiasm and interest to this project. Especially after coming out of a depression a few months back.CivGeneral. Don't worry too much about what others think, the point is to have fun doing what you love, even if I guess that means moving on from DYOS
There's the snag, I've debated about it for a while to do a full reboot in the middle of the story. But that would leave a bunch of people confused and even more ticked off.
As for the last sentence, despite the vitriol atmosphere, I'm surprise that I'm still relevant.
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
A great man in someone's signature once said:
"Ultimately, I really make these comics to please myself. The rest of you are just along for the ride. If you try to please other people, then you'll never be happy with what you've done."
Do you know who's signature that was in?
Did that stop becoming relevant because TK decided he didn't like you or me?
Please don't go. The Drones need you. They look up to you.
"Ultimately, I really make these comics to please myself. The rest of you are just along for the ride. If you try to please other people, then you'll never be happy with what you've done."
Do you know who's signature that was in?
Did that stop becoming relevant because TK decided he didn't like you or me?
Please don't go. The Drones need you. They look up to you.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Pretty much this.
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
And because one person didn't like you, you've decided that all the positive comments and snarky remarks of everyone else don't matter?
Refer to that great man's quote in that signature again.
TK didn't provide constructive criticism. Why should his word matter?
Just like the word of the two people I will not name. Haters gonna hate, don't let them get to you.
Refer to that great man's quote in that signature again.
TK didn't provide constructive criticism. Why should his word matter?
Just like the word of the two people I will not name. Haters gonna hate, don't let them get to you.
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I agree with Sytles on this issue, those people may have not left in word until recently but they left in spirit long ago. But whatever decision you make I will support you. 
I know I left the fray after XI was over and all, but I also kind of wanted to put my 3 cents into the discussion as well.
I don't think the main problem was the quality of CivG's or Stylesrj's comics, but rather their impact on the overall thread, namely CG's.
Basically, the fact that CivG was proclaimed by all to be the main character and poster of the whole project also eventually meant that his comics directed the overall story of DYOS towards his perspective, and not much else.
Most sub-stories that wanted to stay relevant to the overall plotline eventually needed to lead towards CivG's plotline, which everyone has had mixed opinions about during the course of XI.
(These opinions were especially evident due to the "hacker revival" that made an effort to cancel out the initial climax that CivG made in order to develop it further, and which became dependent on Thorvald's and Tailless' efforts (forgive me if I forgot anyone here))
But generally what that meant was that under every circumstance, everyone felt the pressure to connect their storyline with CivG's as soon as possible in order to have a role in the main story, and in order to not be seen as a "mere sidestory".
This was not entirely CG's fault. He was the poster who could make the largest quantity of comics in little time, only really rivalled by few others, and because of that he had the most exposure and was eventually labelled to be the face of DYOS. My guess is that it happened during the DYOS X days, but my historic knowledge within that vicinity is limited, so I can't really say for sure, but that's my theory.
But this is where the problem lies. No matter what you deem the quality of CivG's stories, there's always that one problem for newcomers to take into account. They generally will have to follow the main story to stay relevant, no matter how much praise they get for their side-stories or small one-off jokes, they won't really be a part of the "true fun" that DYOS has in store for them unless they go for the direction which CivG was made responsible for.
This is the case for "hiatusers" too. This is more of a personal perspective of course, but the reason why I don't go in on the story is simply because I don't have the creative freedom that allows me to make my story both relevant and fun for ME to make.
I don't like the direction that CivG or Styles is going, or ever has been going to.
I always felt that their influence was in the way of me being able to carry my Lucifer plotline out successfully, and that was generally because what I wanted just didn't fit in with what CivG wrote his comics to be.
As it stands, only a few people are posting as it is. CivG and Styles posting the majority. The cycle seems to be the same, and that's really what will keep me away.
This is not CG's or Styles' fault. They're just capable of making a large quantity of comics. It's because DYOS as a whole currently makes it important for the story to be coherrent. That makes limitations for the users, and they may have way less creative fun than those who are directing the story already.
That's modern DYOS for you in general. Changing that to remove all limitations would generally just make this whole thing into a seperate "drawing thread" where people show off comics instead, and that's not what is the point of DYOS.
We're basically just under unfortunate circumstances, because this has become more of a project than a game to us.
Those are my doubled-up 6 cents. I'll stop bothering you now.
I don't think the main problem was the quality of CivG's or Stylesrj's comics, but rather their impact on the overall thread, namely CG's.
Basically, the fact that CivG was proclaimed by all to be the main character and poster of the whole project also eventually meant that his comics directed the overall story of DYOS towards his perspective, and not much else.
Most sub-stories that wanted to stay relevant to the overall plotline eventually needed to lead towards CivG's plotline, which everyone has had mixed opinions about during the course of XI.
(These opinions were especially evident due to the "hacker revival" that made an effort to cancel out the initial climax that CivG made in order to develop it further, and which became dependent on Thorvald's and Tailless' efforts (forgive me if I forgot anyone here))
But generally what that meant was that under every circumstance, everyone felt the pressure to connect their storyline with CivG's as soon as possible in order to have a role in the main story, and in order to not be seen as a "mere sidestory".
This was not entirely CG's fault. He was the poster who could make the largest quantity of comics in little time, only really rivalled by few others, and because of that he had the most exposure and was eventually labelled to be the face of DYOS. My guess is that it happened during the DYOS X days, but my historic knowledge within that vicinity is limited, so I can't really say for sure, but that's my theory.
But this is where the problem lies. No matter what you deem the quality of CivG's stories, there's always that one problem for newcomers to take into account. They generally will have to follow the main story to stay relevant, no matter how much praise they get for their side-stories or small one-off jokes, they won't really be a part of the "true fun" that DYOS has in store for them unless they go for the direction which CivG was made responsible for.
This is the case for "hiatusers" too. This is more of a personal perspective of course, but the reason why I don't go in on the story is simply because I don't have the creative freedom that allows me to make my story both relevant and fun for ME to make.
I don't like the direction that CivG or Styles is going, or ever has been going to.
I always felt that their influence was in the way of me being able to carry my Lucifer plotline out successfully, and that was generally because what I wanted just didn't fit in with what CivG wrote his comics to be.
As it stands, only a few people are posting as it is. CivG and Styles posting the majority. The cycle seems to be the same, and that's really what will keep me away.
This is not CG's or Styles' fault. They're just capable of making a large quantity of comics. It's because DYOS as a whole currently makes it important for the story to be coherrent. That makes limitations for the users, and they may have way less creative fun than those who are directing the story already.
That's modern DYOS for you in general. Changing that to remove all limitations would generally just make this whole thing into a seperate "drawing thread" where people show off comics instead, and that's not what is the point of DYOS.
We're basically just under unfortunate circumstances, because this has become more of a project than a game to us.
Those are my doubled-up 6 cents. I'll stop bothering you now.
Thorvald of Lym
A Little Sketchy
I basically agree wholeheartedly with everything Dae said. I have no problem with CG and Styles' pages on their own merits (well, I did with Styles before he took a machete to the windy dialogue); the problem is that for good or ill, you are the face of DYOS, so you are essentially setting the standard. I've talked with CG before about his gravitational effect on the plot and how it's ended up shutting people out; hell, as a newbie way back in DYOS 6 my biggest concern was "How will CivGeneral react to this?"
How to fix this, I don't know. Telling CG and Styles to rein themselves in won't work if the rest of us can't labour any faster (the second half of the problem that went critical during XI), and while I've ghostwritten quite a few of his pages recently I don't dare ask him to do my comics for me (mainly since my characters can't be Gmodded
). Kan' and Capt2 looked to be on the right track by literally crossing over, but while I'd like to see much more of that, at the same time infinitesimal micro-management and pre-planning will further erode the sense of spontaneity that once-upon-a-time kept this whole thing so fresh.
How to fix this, I don't know. Telling CG and Styles to rein themselves in won't work if the rest of us can't labour any faster (the second half of the problem that went critical during XI), and while I've ghostwritten quite a few of his pages recently I don't dare ask him to do my comics for me (mainly since my characters can't be Gmodded
). Kan' and Capt2 looked to be on the right track by literally crossing over, but while I'd like to see much more of that, at the same time infinitesimal micro-management and pre-planning will further erode the sense of spontaneity that once-upon-a-time kept this whole thing so fresh.
Stylesrj
Tabitha SEAL
That makes a lot of sense.
I agree with both statements above and well...
I guess that's all I can really say about that matter.
DYOS isn't turning into something fun for me, my only real motivation for not packing up and leaving is that I'm too proud of my work, my stories and that there are people who will think "Ding dong! The witch is dead!" and then perhaps return to do the equivalent of relieving themselves on my grave and not making anything meaningful afterwards.
I agree with both statements above and well...
I guess that's all I can really say about that matter.
DYOS isn't turning into something fun for me, my only real motivation for not packing up and leaving is that I'm too proud of my work, my stories and that there are people who will think "Ding dong! The witch is dead!" and then perhaps return to do the equivalent of relieving themselves on my grave and not making anything meaningful afterwards.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Make that two people since Kan unfrended me out of the blue a while ago (likely at the time when he made an announcement to leave). Likely because of this whole DYOS debacle.
Thanks, you're one of the few DYOSers and friends I cherish
.Believe it or not, there are some comics that I made that I wanted to keep as a sub-storyarc (eg. the ending of the Second Galactic Civil War & Darth Hakai ambushing me). I'm still pretty much open to other people's ideas, especially after I gotten out of my depression. Heck, I'm supprised that E350tb's storyline hasn't caused anyone to bat an eye.
This is the problem that I have. If people don't like the direction were going, don't keep silent about it. Speak up and we'll adjust accordingly. Don't just go "I have a strong dislike" and "I don't find them interesting", Offer suggestions. If there's no objections, were just going to think that everything is alright. As Stylesrj said before, "I'm like DOS, I won't tell you if anything is wrong unless I say something" (or something like that). I know I'm partly to blame for not letting people speak up during my depression, but that's over and I'm more willing for constructive criticisms.
I actually did not mind your contributions...up until the introduction of Mr. Toyoda at the time (But I've gotten over it). Believe it or not Thorvald, that's was my biggest concern as when when I started contributing to another community outside of CFC.
Well, you know that I can make an attempt to Gmod/SFMed your characters Thorvy.I don't dare ask him to do my comics for me (mainly since my characters can't be Gmodded
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
For my own insight into it: the Kan/Captain crossover was the greatest fun I ever had in DYOS and absolutely encourage others to try the format. It worked, however, because Captain2 and I do get along very well and can accept making compromises on our own comics if it means the other gets to have their own fun, playing off each other, and we got to have some absolutely hilarious planning sessions.
It failed, as you picked up on, because there's no 'spontaneity' in it. By the half-way mark of the story we knew how it would end so, for me at least, there was little desire to actually draw the story because I had it in my head and was fine with that. Some of my best stuff (I'm thinking T-Rex-with-a-jetpack here) came about because I suddenly had the image in my head and simply had to draw it that very day.
That just doesn't work for DYOS as a whole, though for a time I was very eager to try a large-scale version of the Gnoman Empire format. There's just no way to make everyone feel happy if they're going along a planned route, and there's no way to encourage folk to get their comics in on time (self-deprecating remark here). At the same time, for myself, I just cannot keep up with the current format of DYOS and, frankly, I just don't want to.
No, CG. You're construing that part of my post as a singular point. Liking or disliking your comics is not what this is about.
You should have no qualms with me disliking your story, because just because I disliked it, it doesn't mean that you should be limited because of that. The creativity I want is dismissed due to your influence which was of no fault of your own. You're simply capable of producing a large quantity of comics because of your GMod posing, and because of that you WILL become the main focus.
And that's exactly the thing. We should NOT try to direct your story for you. Granted suggestions would be nice, but would you REALLY want me to set it up so half of New Port City was vaporized due to The Composer merging Lucifer and his brother into another L_J-esque abomination? In a story arc that not only would diverse the focus entirely away from the whole hacker affair and have no relevance to the initial plotline of XI?
Heck, even if it was a possibility, it would at least take qua-double the time it took to end off the extended Hacker Xen plot to end off that story arc.
It'd be the Gem-arc all over again, and all because we'd have to fit both yours and my story into one cohesive storyline.
That large an influence would also have consequences to YOUR creative freedom to tell a story. That's the influence that I wanted. That's what did not fit with your story as it was. That's why I stopped posting after realizing I would be in the way.
Don't misunderstand me. I've already said this, but this is not the fault of your own. Your influence was given to you, not conquested from others.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Whelp......it's night time at my end so here's my decision. To be honest, I've actually had mixed feelings about this. I do apologize profusely for shutting people out during the process, losing friends in the process .
Initially, I thought about just pulling the plug and leaving DYOS as a whole. I was strucked by some DYOSers who wanted me to still be around and still contribute. To be honest, I was very touched by it. I initially took a month hiatus to refresh myself and experiment with XNALara, obviously with the flak I've received, it took much longer.
If I do return back to DYOS, it's going to be going in with a new approach and perspective. More open towards compromises and collaborations. I would also like to note that I'm open to other sub-plot and welcome them whole heatedly.
To that end, I've decided to return to DYOS.
In what way can I not have your creativity unintentionally dismissed due to my influence? I still apologize for letting my influence shut you off in your own creativeness.
. Initially, I thought about just pulling the plug and leaving DYOS as a whole. I was strucked by some DYOSers who wanted me to still be around and still contribute. To be honest, I was very touched by it. I initially took a month hiatus to refresh myself and experiment with XNALara, obviously with the flak I've received, it took much longer.
If I do return back to DYOS, it's going to be going in with a new approach and perspective. More open towards compromises and collaborations. I would also like to note that I'm open to other sub-plot and welcome them whole heatedly.
To that end, I've decided to return to DYOS.
First, sorry for construing your post. TK's post has been on my mind for quite some time.
In what way can I not have your creativity unintentionally dismissed due to my influence? I still apologize for letting my influence shut you off in your own creativeness.
Well you don't really need to give any regards to my position in the story anymore since my current "artistic" labour lies elsewhere.
Thorvald has seen that himself, and he too can probably indicate that I can in no way merge what I'm doing right now with another DYOS project. It simply would not comply with what DYOS is.
But the answer to your question could basically be this:
It's situational and complicated. My creativity would basically ruin your storyline if I was allowed to carry it out. My stories are often that destructive. Heck, if I decided, we'd be throwing the whole sci-fi universe away in favour of a middle-age fantasy realm with dragons and all that. Nobody wants that. lol
But there could be a way to integrate your influence towards others and make it more newcomer-friendly.
Personally, I'd say that your best bet at the moment would be to try to make a true collaboration with someone for the next few months. Most preferably a newcomer to DYOS. Try to start a small discussion with him/her about what you both want, and you may well have a fused subplot-line to go for.
Then when you've done that, switch it up and collaborate with someone else.
The issue with this is however that you will have to depend on someone else, and your creative freedom would be limited as well. You will also have to decide upon deadlines for each other, and the comics can turn out to be obligatory for you.
Basically, you will implement limitations upon yourself and the newcomer, but you'll be capable of having collaborative storylines in small doses.
If interest increases in DYOS again, the consul can come to a discussion about a plot-resolution when approaching the climax as per usual. Then everyone can take turns in furthering the climax.
It's far-fetched but that's really all I can have on my mind at the moment. I am honestly wasting my own time by doing this, since my suggestion probably doesn't work and it has no relevance to me anymore. But we'll see.
In any case, now I'll truly stop bothering you anymore. I pray you can find a resolution yourself.
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
Ah, it's the circle of the DYOS Council. See you all again in six months.
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Why do you stay subscribed to this thread when you have made it very clear you don't want to be associated with it at all? Do you enjoy making inflammatory comments like that? Because that's a bit of a dick move.
Kan' Sharuminar
Fluffy
Because I still get folk saying, "Hey Kan, you should draw something for DYOS", so I look into the thread in the hope things have gotten better, or that some new poster will inspire me to create something. But instead it's literally the same comics and drama that's been occurring for years now, and I can't be arsed with any of that anymore.
By all means, though, continue. I genuinely hope you're all having fun with the storytelling and creating lots of varied, creative comics.
By all means, though, continue. I genuinely hope you're all having fun with the storytelling and creating lots of varied, creative comics.
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