The Independent City-State of London

[Commodore]

So it appears there is a petition going around for Mayor Sadiq Khan to declare London an independent state and should apply to join the EU. The reasoning behind this petition is that while 52% of the UK voted for leaving the EU, 60% of Londoners voted to remain. The creators of the petition, and even Mayor Khan himself, reason that these results show a clear divide between London and the rest of the UK, so they should just go their separate ways instead of "passive-aggressively voting against each other."

London (AFP) - Tens of thousands of Londoners signed a petition for their metropolis to stay in the European Union on Friday, as Mayor Sadiq Khan said the city must have a say in Britain's exit negotiations.

More than 40,000 people signed a petition on the change.org website saying: "Declare London independent from the UK and apply to join the EU".

While Britain voted 52 percent in favour of leaving the EU in Thursday's referendum, 60 percent of Londoners voted for Britain to stay.

"London is an international city, and we want to remain at the heart of Europe," the petition said.

"Let's face it -- the rest of the country disagrees. So rather than passive aggressively vote against each other at every election, let's make the divorce official and move in with our friends on the continent.

"This petition is calling on Mayor Sadiq Khan to declare London independent, and apply to join the EU," it said.

Khan himself issued a statement on the negotiations for Britain's departure from the EU.

"It is crucial that London has a voice at the table during those renegotiations, alongside Scotland and Northern Ireland," the pro-EU mayor said.

"Although we will be outside the EU, it is crucial that we remain part of the single market," he said.

"Leaving the single market of 500 million people -- with its free-trade benefits -- would be a mistake. I will be pushing the government to ensure this is the cornerstone of the negotiations with the EU," he said.

Another petition entitled "London to remain part of the European Union" garnered over 9,000 signatures on change.org, saying the vote to leave the EU was "a vital decision that we don't agree with".

A Twitter account @London_Stays was also quickly set up and many people tweeted under the hashtag #londonstays in the wake of the vote.

"Really hoping we're just out, not out out," said Katy Ball. Another user tweeting as @ldn_republic wrote: "No longer British but a Londoner".

"I am now officially all for Scottish independence, a united Ireland and the City-State of London," Clare Fenwick tweeted.

Besides London, Scotland and Northern Ireland were the only other parts of the UK where a majority voted in favour of Britain staying in the EU.

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands-londoners-demand-independence-brexit-160010322.html

What do our UK members think of this petition? Have any of you signed it? If this did happen, what city would be the new capital of the UK since obviously the current government would have to move out to make room for the new independent government of the London City-State? Also, what do you think London becoming independent would do to the world economy and power balance? What would it do to the UK as a nation?

EDIT: One final question for the discussion: If Londoners really do want to stay in the European Union, should they be allowed to break away from the UK to do so? Or should they be forced to stay part of the UK in the name of political and economic stability?

 

[Old Hippy]

London has always been a city state its people are not English they are Londoners

recommend you watch "London the Modern Babylon" if you haven't seen it the whole movie is free on YouTube

Spoiler :

Link to video.

 

[FriendlyFire]

While London and the young voted overwhelming to stay in the EU.
I cant envision London as some like of EU micro nation. UK will just have to wait for the older generation to pass away / lose political power before reapplying to enter the EU again.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Some people really want to break up their country because they lost a vote?

 

[Phrossack]

Some people really want to break up their country because they lost a vote?

Because their economic well-being is being damaged against their will.

 

[Kyriakos]

'International' cities were also used before the first great world war. Hint: it didn't go well.

 

[Arakhor]

Some people really want to break up their country because they lost a vote?

I'd have thought Americans would be well-versed with that particular concept.

Of course, it's a silly idea, but it shows the depths of feeling regarding Brexit and how insisting that 52% of the population should decide matter for the other 48% is somewhat ridiculous. Farage said as much when he was expecting to lose.

 

[Traitorfish]

Some people really want to break up their country because they lost a vote?

Because their economic well-being is being damaged against their will.

More than that, they might have realised that a country that would vote this way, that would subscribe to the sort of self-image implicit in the Leave campaign, isn't a country they feel very much a part of.

The right have been saying for years, decades, that "London isn't English any more"; apparently some Londoners are beginning to wonder if they might not be on to something.

 

[Snorrius]

Truro? Also make Cornish a state language and abolish outdated English.

 

[Rashiminos]

Some people really want to break up their country because they lost a vote?

There are things like "irreconcilable differences."

More than that, they might have realised that a country that would vote this way, that would subscribe to the sort of self-image implicit in the Leave campaign, isn't a country they feel very much a part of.

The right have been saying for years, decades, that "London isn't English any more"; apparently some Londoners are beginning to wonder if they might not be on to something.

Londoners feel European in much the same way as New Yorkers feel American/USian.

 

[Traitorfish]

Londoners feel European in much the same way as New Yorkers feel American/USian.

I wouldn't phrase it quite like that. Many Londoners certainly seem to feel a strong connection to the world beyond British national borders, but I don't think that connection is specifically European. There are a lot of people in London with origins in Asia, Africa and the Americas as well as Europe, and that all plays into the sense of global citizenship. The analogy to New York is valid, but it's more in the sense of a mediator between national and global culture: New York is where America and the World overlap, and London is where Britain and the World overlap. So the apparent decision of the British electorate to close themselves off the World, to secede from planet Earth- and that's what a lot of voters seemed to think they were doing- is going to shake the identity of a lot of Londoners, and leave them wondering, if London isn't there to mediate between Britain and the World, what is it for? And if Britain doesn't think it needs London, if it no longer seems interested in cultural function that Londoners hold so dear, then should London feel like it needs Britain?

 

[Rashiminos]

I wouldn't phrase it quite like that. Many Londoners certainly seem to feel a strong connection to the world beyond British national borders, but I don't think that connection is specifically European. There are a lot of people in London with origins in Asia, Africa and the Americas as well as Europe, and that all plays into the sense of global citizenship.

Of course. The transition from European order to World order (arguably American Imperialism) comes later.

The analogy to New York is valid, but it's more in the sense of a mediator between national and global culture: New York is where America and the World overlap, and London is where Britain and the World overlap. So the apparent decision of the British electorate to close themselves off the World, to secede from planet Earth- and that's what a lot of voters seemed to think they were doing- is going to shake the identity of a lot of Londoners, and leave them wondering, if London isn't there to mediate between Britain and the World, what is it for? And if Britain doesn't think it needs London, if it no longer seems interested in cultural function that Londoners hold so dear, then should London feel like it needs Britain?

No. If the hierarchy in Europe is the future they choose, let that future have them.

 

[Traitorfish]

Of course. The transition from European order to World order (arguably American Imperialism) comes later.

...What?

 

[Rashiminos]

...What?

Globalism. All peoples of Earth under a common economic and political system.

 

[Traitorfish]

Well, I think we're maybe on two different pages, here. What I'm saying that the "Londoner" identity, and the sense of Britishness held by Londoners, hinges on London's role as a mediator between national and international culture. It's not about allegiance to some predicted New World Order, it's just a simple function of the fact that people living in large, highly multicultural cities are going to have a sense of themselves, their city and their country quite different from somebody living in a small-town monocultures. (Or, as is often the case, people who grew up in a small-town monoculture and feel threatened by its decline.)

The Leave vote, which is widely and clearly understood as a vote for a smaller, more closed, and, let's be quite honest, a whiter Britain, runs entirely contrary to many Londoner's sense of identity. It runs contrary to the identity of many young Britons, and certainly those from multicultural urban environments, but particularly so in London, because Londoners have built an identity out of their multiculturalism in a way you don't find in the regional cities, so it's not surprising that some of them have started to wonder if "Londoner" and "Briton" are compatible identities.

 

[Rashiminos]

Well, I think we're maybe on two different pages, here. What I'm saying that the "Londoner" identity, and the sense of Britishness held by Londoners, hinges on London's role as a mediator between national and international culture.

Like a middle-manager?

The Leave vote, which is widely and clearly understood as a vote for a smaller, more closed, and, let's be quite honest, a whiter Britain, runs entirely contrary to many Londoner's sense of identity. It runs contrary to the identity of many young Britons, and certainly those from multicultural urban environments, but particularly so in London, because Londoners have built an identity out of their multiculturalism in a way you don't find in the regional cities, so it's not surprising that some of them have started to wonder if "Londoner" and "Briton" are compatible identities.

It's fitting that you're describing an application of identity politics, given that identities are, in theory, (de)constructed.

 

[Traitorfish]

Like a middle-manager?

No, a middle-manager mediates between a concentrated, high-status authority and dispersed, low-status functionaries. The sort of mediation I'm talking about is between popular cultures, between Britain and Bangladesh or Cyprus or Hong Kong or Barbados. It is, at least in the imagination of Londoners, an exchange between equals- and if reality falls short of that ideal, it's in favour of Britain: we may not be an Empire anymore, but we're still richer and more powerful than most other countries in the world.

Or were, at any rate. I guess we'll have to see where that one goes.

It's fitting that you're describing an application of identity politics, given that identities are, in theory, (de)constructed.

All politics are identity politics, at some level. Some are just more explicit than others.

 

[crabapple]

City of London is already pretty independent! See the City of London corporation!

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London_Corporation

 

[Rashiminos]

No, a middle-manager mediates between a concentrated, high-status authority and dispersed, low-status functionaries. The sort of mediation I'm talking about is between popular cultures, between Britain and Bangladesh or Cyprus or Hong Kong or Barbados. It is, at least in the imagination of Londoners, an exchange between equals- and if reality falls short of that ideal, it's in favour of Britain: we may not be an Empire anymore, but we're still richer and more powerful than most other countries in the world.

London is more of a financial center than a cultural center, so it's more the former than the latter (wealth inequality and so on). One can use propaganda to "construct" reality in furtherance of identity politics. What are the material (and other) implications of their supposed imagination?

 

[Kyriakos]

Do you remember the good old days before the ghost town?

Also not seeing how south of the Thames is "a mediator between UK and Europe". It barely looks european as it is..

Although i am mostly surprised that there is no restraint on all this talk. It would never happen here that cities would call to become international so as to stay in the Eu.