The Independent City-State of London

[Arakhor]

I do love these little numbers games that only tell half a truth in order to mislead the real situation.

Well, they have been in vogue for a couple of months.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'd venture that most of that 52% vote for England, rather than Britain, which is something very different, even if their imagination and vocabulary might prove too stunted to grasp it.

Turns out I was right about this, by the way.


source

Assuming that the proportions identifying as "English not British", etc. are the same as in the 2011 census, then 47% of English voters, so about 40% of voters total, ticked "English, not British" in 2011 and "Leave" in 2016. That seems a little high, so I'd guess that the results of the Ashcroft Poll showed less "English only" voters, probably because it allowed the option of "more English than British". But, either way, what we can is that there is a substantial bloc of people in the UK who regard themselves as primarily or exclusively English, that this bloc mostly voted Leave, and that this bloc probably represented a solid majority of "Leave" voters.

I think what we're seeing here is the emergence of an English nationalist bloc. One not clearly recognised, even by itself, but which clearly has tremendous electoral weight. And it's not a voter bloc who are probably worried about "the real Britain", except insofar as they treat "Britain" as a short-hand for "England, and whatever bits of the Empire we have left".

(Which makes me feel a bit sorry for the Orangemen who happen to be marching down my street as write this. They've spent three hundred years proclaiming their Britishness, their zealous loyalty to the Protestant succession, and suddenly it turns out those among the English they'd assumed to be the firmest allies aren't interested in any of that at all, they just don't like people with a funny accent. It's almost tragic.)

 

[Tahuti]

Which makes me feel a bit sorry for the Orangemen marching who happen to be marching down my street as right this. They've spent three hundred years proclaiming their Britishness, their zealous loyalty to the Protestant succession, and suddenly it turns out those among the English they'd assumed to be the firmest allies aren't interested in any of that at all, they just don't like people with a funny accent. It's almost tragic.

Britishness just ain't what it used to be. The Glorious Revolution was started because of the dominance of Catholicism in Britain at the time and the desire to have it supplanted by Protestantism. This of course doesn't play a role any more. What does play a role is the devolution Scotland got and England didn't (you rightly point out that England formally is a country within the United Kingdom, though that's even more of a reason).

The tables have flipped: British nationalism is moving towards becoming a form of Left-wing nationalism, with an increasing focus on Celtic heritage as opposed to Anglo-Saxon heritage, which English nationalists view as being threatening. British nationalism will likely go down the route of Belgian nationalism: Once created to keep the country together by those in power, it now is taken increasingly less serious as the powers that be in that country have change.

 

[bathsheba666]

Given that we managed to get a Conservative majority with only a 30% Tory vote, we've already had over a year of decisions made by a government that two-thirds of the country didn't elect. In that regard, even a 45% minority such as in the Scots referendum would be a 50% improvement.

Aren't you counting only voters ?

In terms of the population, I believe the Conservatives achieved less than 25% of the people voting for them....

...which makes even more piquant their introduction of a law that Unions can only call strikes if a significant majority of their members actually vote for it.

btw.. As a Guardian reading Londoner who is outraged by this leap off the cliff face, I am troubled that my outrage might not count, as I do not wear sandals and never went to a cereal cafe.

 

[innonimatu]

I am very, very disturbed that a large group of people claim to support democracy and at the same time believe that they must to depend on foreign backing to advance their political agenda. Such a group is unfit to fight politics on the grounds of parliamentarian democracy.

Or has the new left turned itself into a vanguard party backed by the "International European"? What does it stand for then? The old international socialist had an agenda, and made it public... The "IE" has... what?

 

[Traitorfish]

I am very, very disturbed that a large group of people claim to support democracy and at the same time believe that they must to depend on foreign backing to advance their political agenda. Such a group is unfit to fight politics on the grounds of parliamentarian democracy.

Yeah, but like Tovergieter said, the Loyalists aren't really relevant anymore.

 

[Tahuti]

Yeah, but like Tovergieter said, the Loyalists aren't really relevant anymore.

I wonder what made you think innonimatu was taking a Loyalist point of view.

 

[Traitorfish]

What I meant was: the Loyalists in Ireland have always relied upon the support of a foreign power, namely Great Britain, to advance their political agenda. Point being, political factions in one country calling on foreign patronage is not a new, "disturbing" phenomenon. It's just politics.

And Innonimatu knows this, of course, but I guess he's feeling theatrical today.

 

[Takhisis]

When is it ever not a proper day for theatrics on the Internet?

 

[Birdjaguar]

London shouldn't run away from the UK. It should be moving towards something new. The EU is the wrong target. Lots of small political entities want to exit their current situations and be independent whether or not they are economically viable. They just want out. It has been a growing trend for a long time. Such a realignment is mostly disruptive and fights the other trend to homogenize and globalize everything. I'm not sure either trend can be stopped. What we need is a new model for globalization that is not rooted in the traditional geographic/nation state we have currently.

How about London, New York, Singapore and Hong Kong forming their own political entity that is independent of their current situation. Rather than being a nation based on traditional national politics, it would be a nation based on global financial and cultural standards. A reboot of of what a global entity should be. Let them build a new model of how both culture and business should be integrated and governed. Then, perhaps, in a few decades, other political entities which exhibit acceptance of these new standards can ask to be included. Running away can be great, but running to is usually better.

Money talks and an independent London could be the catalyst for a new way of looking at how we want to structure our future world.

 

[W|M]

Londoners, especially outside the suburbs, seem to associate themselves much more with Britishness than with Englishness, which is more associated with the countryside, especially seeing as English nationalism is usually associated with racist whites, and London is very multicultural

 

[dutchfire]

London shouldn't run away from the UK. It should be moving towards something new. The EU is the wrong target. Lots of small political entities want to exit their current situations and be independent whether or not they are economically viable. They just want out. It has been a growing trend for a long time. Such a realignment is mostly disruptive and fights the other trend to homogenize and globalize everything. I'm not sure either trend can be stopped. What we need is a new model for globalization that is not rooted in the traditional geographic/nation state we have currently.

How about London, New York, Singapore and Hong Kong forming their own political entity that is independent of their current situation. Rather than being a nation based on traditional national politics, it would be a nation based on global financial and cultural standards. A reboot of of what a global entity should be. Let them build a new model of how both culture and business should be integrated and governed. Then, perhaps, in a few decades, other political entities which exhibit acceptance of these new standards can ask to be included. Running away can be great, but running to is usually better.

Money talks and an independent London could be the catalyst for a new way of looking at how we want to structure our future world.

A Hanseatic League for the 21st century.

 

[Birdjaguar]

With upgrades by Apple, Google and Amazon!

 

[Tahuti]

With upgrades by Apple, Google and Amazon!

It's more accurate to say Apple, Google and Amazon are going to take a few cues from the Hanseatic League in order to make their creepy practices more effective.

 

[Mise]

I signed that petition. I didn't and don't take it seriously.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I signed that petition. I didn't and don't take it seriously.

"I voted leave, I did't think it would win."



That's how you get Nazis.

 

[Mise]

I signed the petition to start serious debate on regionalism in the UK. The petition itself isn't even an officially recognised parliamentary petition (the kind the demands a response from parliament upon gaining 10,000 signatures).

A vote in a referendum or election and a signature on a petition are clearly not equivalent.

 

[warpus]

How about London, New York, Singapore and Hong Kong forming their own political entity that is independent of their current situation.

So a "Free City" type of arrangement. Isn't that essentially what Singapore is already? I dont' think it'd fly with London, there's no way the UK would allow it to become sovereign, it's the heart of the UK.

 

[Lexicus]

"I voted leave, I did't think it would win."



That's how you get Nazis.

Hopefully not in this case. I am very confused as to why anyone on the left seems to think this result represents anything other than a triumph for the forces of reaction.

Yeah, the EU is stupid and run by crooks, but if you live in the UK and think Leaving is going to save you from crooks, you're in for a rude awakening.

 

[Arakhor]

I rather get the impression that several people voted for Leave as a protest vote, which might be their democratic right to do so, but makes them actively incompetent too.