The Independent City-State of London

[Traitorfish]

London is more of a financial center than a cultural center, so it's more the former than the latter (wealth inequality and so on). One can use propaganda to "construct" reality in furtherance of identity politics. What are the material (and other) implications of their supposed imagination?

In this case? A prolonged headache for a regime trying to govern from a city that might be tempted to regard it as a foreign occupation.

 

[Flying Pig]

A lot of the Leave vote was about people rejecting what they saw as a foreign occupation of cereal-cafe-attending, sandal-wearing, Guardian-reading London types. If Londoners see the UK government as a foreign occupation, that's as much indicative of how foreign they are relative to the rest of the country as it is the other way around. Which of those is the 'real Britain' isn't something we can say, but 52% of people reckon it's not London.

 

[Rashiminos]

In this case? A prolonged headache for a regime trying to govern from a city that might be tempted to regard it as a foreign occupation.

I'd agree. Better to let Europa make that case than drag Londoners kicking and screaming away from it. If you love them, let them go (which could be said for a number of similar situations).

 

[Traitorfish]

A lot of the Leave vote was about people rejecting what they saw as a foreign occupation of cereal-cafe-attending, sandal-wearing, Guardian-reading London types. If Londoners see the UK government as a foreign occupation, that's as much indicative of how foreign they are relative to the rest of the country as it is the other way around. Which of those is the 'real Britain' isn't something we can say, but 52% of people reckon it's not London.

I'd venture that most of that 52% vote for England, rather than Britain, which is something very different, even if their imagination and vocabulary might prove too stunted to grasp it.

 

[Flying Pig]

Hm. The highest proportion of people who give their nationality as 'British' rather than English/Scottish/Welsh etc live in England. Englishness is much less pronounced as a way of feeling than Welshness, Scottishness and Irishness.

 

[Traitorfish]

As I said, the vocabulary and imagination may not be there, but it doesn't mean the distinction isn't made. A lot of England has never really had to reflect on the relationship between Britain and England, because Britain-but-not-England was always something that happened to other people, and it's become clear in the last few decades that the distinction between the two is confusing and distressing to a lot of people, and a lot of them are responding, as the Americans and the Australians did once upon a time, by abandoning the whole project- if not, in this case, the associated territorial claims.

I mean, you note yourself that Englishness isn't trumpted in the same way as Scottishness or Welshness, but the proportion of people in England identify as English-only is approximately the same as those in Scotland identifying as Scottish-only or those in Wales identifying as Welsh-only, and I'd be willing to bet there's no small overlap between that 60% who don't fancy themselves British and the 52% who didn't fancy themselves European.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

The more separatist freedom-fighters there are, the better!!!

 

[Phrossack]

The more separatist freedom-fighters there are, the better!!!

Chechnya forever!

 

[innonimatu]

Of course, it's a silly idea, but it shows the depths of feeling regarding Brexit and how insisting that 52% of the population should decide matter for the other 48% is somewhat ridiculous. Farage said as much when he was expecting to lose.

Would these sore losers now calling for more referenda rather have decisions be taken by minority?

That's "European" democracy, sure enough: a minority decides and the majority must accept it, because they're ignorant, or old, or whatever. They're just... unfit to decide, right? Who do those bloody untermenschen think they are to expect their majority vote to be respected? Die already, old people! Die already, small-town people. Die already, poor suburban dwellers.

The mask of the fake left dropped. This kind of reaction is exposing the fact that the Labour Party got taken over by an elitist cadre of self-styled technocrats who can outdo even the old conservatives in arrogance and despise for the english "lower" classes. It was past time this was exposed. So it can be fixed.
They know that there is a popular reaction gaining momentum. That's why those MP aligned with this dominant current in Labour want to recapture the leadership of the party - to block a change in the party. And if they fail now, which It seems to me they will, they're going into retirement - finally. The UK has not yet exited the EU, but something good is already coming out of that vote.

 

[Arakhor]

Would these sore losers now calling for more referenda rather have decisions be taken by minority?

Given that we managed to get a Conservative majority with only a 30% Tory vote, we've already had over a year of decisions made by a government that two-thirds of the country didn't elect. In that regard, even a 45% minority such as in the Scots referendum would be a 50% improvement.

 

[W|M]

Parliament also ended up with a misrepresentation error lower (so better) than 647 (out of 650) constituencies, so it's even worse than it looks


Link to video.

 

[onejayhawk]

Is this the one-city challenge?

J

 

[innonimatu]

Given that we managed to get a Conservative majority with only a 30% Tory vote, we've already had over a year of decisions made by a government that two-thirds of the country didn't elect. In that regard, even a 45% minority such as in the Scots referendum would be a 50% improvement.

You won't find me defending FPTP systems, I much prefer proportional representation. But every system has its issues, it's up to the people of the UK to choose one - as it doesn't affect me (unlike the EU issue) I'm not inclined to participate in discussions about those.

 

[Takhisis]

Hm. The highest proportion of people who give their nationality as 'British' rather than English/Scottish/Welsh etc live in England. Englishness is much less pronounced as a way of feeling than Welshness, Scottishness and Irishness.

Because of generations of trying to impose ‘Britishness’ as a national identity. In the context of a Greater England being formed by deception, force or a combination of both, it's natural that they wanted to resist.

Still, a cuppa is a cuppa.

The more separatist freedom-fighters there are, the better!!!

Chechnya forever!

Is this the one-city challenge?

Interesting analogy. Just as in the case of Civ3, you have to wrap things up by 2020 or else you lose.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Given that we managed to get a Conservative majority with only a 30% Tory vote, we've already had over a year of decisions made by a government that two-thirds of the country didn't elect. In that regard, even a 45% minority such as in the Scots referendum would be a 50% improvement.

I do love these little numbers games that only tell half a truth in order to mislead the real situation.

 

[Zkribbler]

... obviously the current government would have to move out to make room for the new independent government of the London City-State...

Maybe 10 Downing Street could then Tenxit from London, EU.

 

[Smellincoffee]

Because their economic well-being is being damaged against their will.

But when people protest about that in general they're smeared as Tories.

 

[Takhisis]

People protesting about their economic well-being are, usually smeared by Tories.

 

[Arwon]

Presumably in 10 or 15 years we'll have a united Ireland, an independent Scotland and a walled off Free City of London as EU members while the rump Kingdom of England and Wales sees its general elections contested primarily between the Tories and whatever Farage changes UKIP's name to.

 

[Kyriakos]

Presumably in 10 or 15 years we'll have a united Ireland, an independent Scotland and a walled off Free City of London as EU members while the rump Kingdom of England and Wales sees its general elections contested primarily between the Tories and whatever Farage changes UKIP's name to.

Possibly.
Then again, in 10 years from now who knows what kind of other crap will be going on, eg massive war in the ME with euro powers taking part too.