The Russian Problem

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That's an interesting idea, you are suggesting he is containing it?

To a degree, not intentionally of course but while nationalist he isnt so to an insane degree. An insane nationalist would have probably just invaded Ukraine rather than kept to messing with the russian parts.
 
"I am very glad Mr. Hitler has taken charge in Germany to-day. One must fear what might occur were he to be overthrown by that nation's communist ideologues."
 
You are forgetting about Novgorod Republic :p

What if Russians themselves do not want democracy? Or they do, but Russian style. Like democratically electing Putin until he dies.
Oligarchy's do not equal democracies...

As for the 2nd part, that could very well be true, that Russians don't want it. That's kind of my point, they haven't known it much, and it might not be what they want.
I wasn't claiming they did, just noting that historically they've had a handful of years of democracy out of the past thousand.
 
What if Russians themselves do not want democracy? Or they do, but Russian style. Like democratically electing Putin until he dies.

The will of the people should be respected, but.. Putin is of course exploiting the whole "Us vs them" trope to full effect. The Russian people are right now behind him, and I don't find that surprising one bit. People tend to follow strongheaded leaders, especially when the country is going through some problems, and especially when there is a perceived or real external threat. (The U.S. does this well too, but I don't think quite as well due to that country's democratic and free speech princples. What I mean - As soon as the cold war was over they were sure to shift the "boogyman" label from "the communists" to "the terrorists". A clear external threat that leaders can exploit to rally people behind them. In Putin's case the external threat is the west and the potential victims are Russians in Russia and especially abroad. If you listen to his speeches, you will hear him make reference to these things. He knows how to exploit them well.)

A single victory on the battlefield can temporarily hide 20 problems with the economy (or whatever) as well, and Putin knows that too.. so he's exploiting it as well. I just wonder how long he can keep this up before it blows up in his face.

All I hope for is that the Russian people see through his BS sooner rather than later. He is essentially trying to throw what he perceives the West's tactics in places like Kosovo back at the U.S. and the rest of the west. It's a very childish way to look at it, but at home it is helping Putin quite a bit.. so I don't think he's going to stop anytime soon. He also wants a buffer zone between Russia and the west and is doing everything he can to make that happen, even if that means illegally sending troops across the border, lying about it, and facing increasingly damaging sanctions.

So I think he is going to be try to be this super tough super awesome leader who does amazing things for his country and isn't afraid enough to face the west for as long as it helps him. You might expect to see a picture of him standing with one foot on a dead bison sometime soon, with of course his shirt off, and a rainbow flaw burning in the distance. Putin is all about his image. In fact, I would even say that his image is really all that exists, as far as we are concerned. Putin's personality is behind a mask that he controls very well. He isn't a mastermind or anything like that, but I believe he just understands the underlying dynamics of PRopaganda very well, so we aren't actually ever seeing what he's all about. We are only seeing what he wants the Russian people to see.
 
The will of the people should be respected, but.. Putin is of course exploiting the whole "Us vs them" trope to full effect. The Russian people are right now behind him, and I don't find that surprising one bit. People tend to follow strongheaded leaders, especially when the country is going through some problems, and especially when there is a perceived or real external threat. (The U.S. does this well too, but I don't think quite as well due to that country's democratic and free speech princples. What I mean - As soon as the cold war was over they were sure to shift the "boogyman" label from "the communists" to "the terrorists". A clear external threat that leaders can exploit to rally people behind them. In Putin's case the external threat is the west and the potential victims are Russians in Russia and especially abroad. If you listen to his speeches, you will hear him make reference to these things. He knows how to exploit them well.)

A single victory on the battlefield can temporarily hide 20 problems with the economy (or whatever) as well, and Putin knows that too.. so he's exploiting it as well. I just wonder how long he can keep this up before it blows up in his face.

All I hope for is that the Russian people see through his BS sooner rather than later. He is essentially trying to throw what he perceives the West's tactics in places like Kosovo back at the U.S. and the rest of the west. It's a very childish way to look at it, but at home it is helping Putin quite a bit.. so I don't think he's going to stop anytime soon. He also wants a buffer zone between Russia and the west and is doing everything he can to make that happen, even if that means illegally sending troops across the border, lying about it, and facing increasingly damaging sanctions.

So I think he is going to be try to be this super tough super awesome leader who does amazing things for his country and isn't afraid enough to face the west for as long as it helps him. You might expect to see a picture of him standing with one foot on a dead bison sometime soon, with of course his shirt off, and a rainbow flaw burning in the distance. Putin is all about his image. In fact, I would even say that his image is really all that exists, as far as we are concerned. Putin's personality is behind a mask that he controls very well. He isn't a mastermind or anything like that, but I believe he just understands the underlying dynamics of PRopaganda very well, so we aren't actually ever seeing what he's all about. We are only seeing what he wants the Russian people to see.

I think the big difference is that when the US leadership spins up a 'terrorist stronghold in XXXXXX' threat the American people, who in large fraction don't even know where XXXXX is, lose interest pretty fast. On the other hand, I doubt there is anyone in Russia who doesn't know that:

1) Ukraine is a former core state of the USSR.

2) Ukraine directly borders on Russia.

3) Ukraine hosts significant strategic interests of Russia, in terms of bases, resources, and industries.

In the end, Putin is going to have very little difficulty keeping Russians convinced that they can't afford to just let Ukraine join the anti-Russian league. Heck, I'm not even Russian and I'm convinced.
 
"I am very glad Mr. Hitler has taken charge in Germany to-day. One must fear what might occur were he to be overthrown by that nation's communist ideologues."

He has been in power for well over a decade, feel pretty safe saying he is no Hitler at this point.
 
He has been in power for well over a decade, feel pretty safe saying he is no Hitler at this point.

Mussolini came to power in 1922 you big meanie.
 
It's kind of pointless to talk about dictators in terms of the unilateral regime headed by the man whose medals weigh more than he does. Putin is no less a dictator for failing to have openly murderous purges or an intimidating title.
 
Being so popular the government legitimately defers to your will isnt the same as being an actual dictator whom doesnt require the will of anyone else to operate.
 
C'mon man. You know America gets to define what is or is not a democracy.

American democracy has been going downhill since Nixon.

Even its elite institutions are failing it, with the supreme court deciding the election for Bush while declaring that its ruling cannot be used as a precedence for law.
Corruption is inevitable but not at its highest government institutions, (courts, bank, law)
 
C'mon man. You know America gets to define what is or is not a democracy.

Try Freedom House. Oh, whaddya know, they rate Russia as "not free".

I think the big difference is that when the US leadership spins up a 'terrorist stronghold in XXXXXX' threat the American people, who in large fraction don't even know where XXXXX is, lose interest pretty fast. On the other hand, I doubt there is anyone in Russia who doesn't know that:

1) Ukraine is a former core state of the USSR.

2) Ukraine directly borders on Russia.

3) Ukraine hosts significant strategic interests of Russia, in terms of bases, resources, and industries.

In the end, Putin is going to have very little difficulty keeping Russians convinced that they can't afford to just let Ukraine join the anti-Russian league. Heck, I'm not even Russian and I'm convinced.

So Ukrainians don't get a say in the direction they want to take their own country in. Because of course Ukraine is nothing but a borderland of Russia, amirite? Got it.
 
So Ukrainians don't get a say in the direction they want to take their own country in. Because of course Ukraine is nothing but a borderland of Russia, amirite? Got it.

Don't worry about context or anything, amirite? Got it.
 
1. Russians are badass
2. Russians are badass
3. Ukrainians are supported by the West

Therefore, by unviolable logic, Russia is evil.
 
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