Tupac08 - Simply Sid

[del62]

It may even be to our advantage to renegotiate peace for a tech with the portugese before stealing, possibly industialisation which we can then use in a renegotiated peace with Babylon for electricity, but wait till we are ready for war with portugese first. Hopefully we can steal a few techs then finally get caught

 

[Daeron]

It may even be to our advantage to renegotiate peace for a tech with the portugese before stealing, possibly industialisation which we can then use in a renegotiated peace with Babylon for electricity, but wait till we are ready for war with portugese first. Hopefully we can steal a few techs then finally get caught

Don't forget though that we have a pretty nasty stack of Portugese units on our continent. We could actually make use of that after buying techs.

Renew peace for a lot of gpt and techs, then ask them to remove or declare if we've annoyed them to the point of furious. Biggest issue is having plenty of units to deal with that stack once Portugal declares. Most of our units will be tied up with China after all.

 

[CKS]

Just a quick note: I'm six turns in, China is down to two cities, and the Portuguese on our continent are moving, possibly toward the Babylonian town. It should take two turns to get rid of the Chinese and get set to defend against the local Portuguese units, and at that point I'll be actively trying to provoke the Portuguese. If they declare on Babylon, we may be able to get stuff from Babylon for an alliance, too.

 

[CKS]

China is gone, Portugal has declared on Babylon. I hope to finish my turns tonight.

 

[Daeron]

You really are the bearer of good news.

Are we supplying Babylon still with saltpeter. It might be necessary so they don't fold too soon.

 

[CKS]

Yes, we are still giving the Babylonians saltpeter.

I've got most of the Portuguese units in our area trapped, and we should be able to deal with them pretty handily when they declare on us. I expect to be at war by the end of my turnset. The next player can have fun pillaging.

 

[CKS]

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 0:
Short rush some rifles. MM for cash and shields, although rails will change things rapidly.
IBT: Nothing exciting.

Turn 1:
Rail from core to outer cities. Build Enschede 2 and Tillburg 2.
IBT: China paces.

Turn 2:
Finish railing from core to outer cities. Connect most core cities to rail backbone.
IBT:

Turn 3:
Ask China to leave or declare. Despite being furious with us, they leave. I declare.

Pusan: There are 10 military units on tiles adjacent to Pusan. Army 7/17 kills 2 vet rifles and a pike. Cav kills longbow to raze city. Vet cav 5/5 kills elite longbow. Vet cav 1/4 kills cav. Cannons go 5/9 vs cavs, vet MDIs go 2/4, 2/5 killing redlined cavs. Cannons 3/3, vet MDI 4/5 kills cav. 2 rifles, 3 muskets, 5 pikes left surrounding the ruins.

Tabriz: Cav army 17/18 kills 2 rifles at Tabriz, one roaming rifle. 1 cav dies, 5 kill cavs, 2 kill riders at Tabriz, raze Tabriz and destroy a boat. 4 of the cavs promote to elite.

Seoul: Cav army kills 2 rifles in Seoul, one musket on the way in, captures 2 slaves. Promotes and redlines razing city, captures 2 trebs.
Cannons 3/4 redline cav, 3/4 MDI kills it. Cav 3/4 kills cav.

Inch'on: Cav army kills 2 rifles, one cav. It takes 5 cavs to kill the remaining 3 cavs hiding behind the frigate. Raze the city.

Tsingtao: Cav army 4/13 kills rifle. Two cavs retreat removing one hp from a rifle. 2 cannons are defending. Cover with knight army, but don't attack with it.

Cav dies, cav 2/4 kills cav on mountain near Ningpo.

Cannons advance on Tsingtao and Ningpo.

Build Zwolle 2.

I've covered everything I can that I think is reachable.

IBT:
Get booted from Babylonian lands that used to be Chinese. Pike attacks 1/4 cav, cav promotes to 2/5. Cav retreats from swiss merc on saltpeter mountain, cav kills 2/4 cav near Ningpo. Lots of motion from defenders near ruins of Pusan, lots of workers running away. Frigate tries to bomb.

Turn 4:
Pillage saltpeter. Cannons go 4/7 at Tsingtao. 2 2/4 rifles showing. Knight army goes 1/13, kills both vet rifles. Conscript rifle, unfortified, retreats two cavs, kills 2 more, reduces 9/13 army to 6/13 before dying. 4/4 cav kills vet cav, razes city, collects 2 cannons, 3 workers.

Ningpo: cannons go 3/7, 3 rifles - 1 vet, 2 regs.

By Holwerd 2: Cannons go 1/3 vs conscript rifle, 3/5 cav kills it.

Kaifeng: Army 11/18 kills 2 rifles. Elite cav dies to cav, two more kill cavs, raze city, collect 5 workers.

Rush some settlers. Build some cities.

IBT: Cav kills cav that took Kaifeng. Cav dies to Swiss Merc on mountain.

turn 5:
Ningpo: Cannons go 5/11. Army kills 2 rifles, elite cav kills rifle, vet rifle kills longbow, razes city, collects 6 workers.

Xinjian: Army kills 2 rifles, Army kills rifle, razes city, collects cannon and 3 workers.

Kill 5 wandering rifles, 1 pike, 1 cav.

IBT: No attacks. Portuguese are moving. Amsterdam riots because I forget to raise the lux slider; I fix the other cities before they riot.

Turn 6:
Raise lux slider.

Hangchow: 13/13 3-cav army dies to rifle. 10/18 4-cav army kills 3 rifles. Cav retreats from longbow, cav kills longbow, takes city so we can reach Macao easily. Abandon it after razing Macao.

Macao: 13/13 3 cav army loses 1 hp killing first rifle, redlines 2nd rifle and dies. Cav army kills rifle. Cav kills redlined rifle, razes city, collects 6 workers.

Kill off some wandering units; Great Leader from MDI. Very next attack, 2nd great leader from MDI!

IBT:
Portugal declares on Babylon. Chinese rifle kills cav, 4 cav unload off a boat!

turn 7:
Cannons get 5 hits at Hyangsan, cavs go 2/3 vs redlined rifles to take city.

Armies go 13/18, 9/13 killing 4 rifles at Chengdu. Knight army kills longbow, takes city and 3 cannons. China is gone. Lux to 0%.

IBT: Nothing of interest

Turn 8:
Railing. Not enough cash for a safe steal, so will wait until next turn.

IBT: Portuguese take Cheju from Babylon.

Turn 9:
Try to steal from Portugal - we get nothing, but we don't get caught.
Renegotiated peace with Portugal, got Industrialization for 600 gpt. Can't get both Industrialization and Medicine. Should have tried this before stealing, but probably wouldn't have made a difference. Renegotiated peace with Babylon, got Electricity for Industrialization, coal, gems, ivory, and spices. This has the added benefit of strengthening Babylon in their war effort. We ask Portugal to remove their troops and they declare on us.

Bombard rifles and infantry. 17 hits.

5/5 cav dies to 3/4 cav on grass. 5/5 cav dies to 1/4 cav on grass, it promotes. 5/5 MDI kills it.
At Cheju: 4/4 cav captures two workers, kills 4/4 cav. Cav 2/4 kills 2/4 cav to take city. Its citizen is Babylonian; the flip risk isn't that high, but I sell its improvements and abandon the city. Outside the city, one cav dies and the second one kills the last Portuguese cavalry on our continent.

Two 4-cav armies kill 6 rifles. 5/5 cav kills longbow. 10 wounded infantry and one guerilla remain. Third 4-cav army kills 3 infantry.

MDI army and Knight army land in Portugal. I don't want to send the cav armies until I see if the Knights get attacked.

Raise lux to 10% because of lost lux trade.

IBT: 5 3/4 infantries and one 4/4 guerilla attack New Maastricht 2; all 6 are dinged by cannons and die. The 2/4 infantries don't attack. Our armies aren't attacked, nor are our galleons, which I had expected to lose. Lots of boats go by, but no landings.

Turn 10:
Land the 3-cav armies in Portugal. Start pillaging. Move cavalry, rifles, cannons to core, so they'll be conveniently located. They aren't all there, but a lot of them are. I haven't seen any boats except on that western edge, but they haven't been coming after us, either. Rail.

We are in good shape. We own our continent. China is gone. We are at war with Portugal and have armies over there to pillage. Unless Portugal has something to attack our armies, it is just a matter of time.

Both Replaceable Parts and Espionage would be nice to have, though. We can save money for steals - about 3 turns per safe steal from Babylon - or we can switch to researching them ourselves. If we switched all our taxmen to scientists, we could learn them each in 8 turns or so. I think we are probably better off researching, especially since Babylon doesn't know espionage yet. We can't steal from Portugal because we are at war with them.

With our cannons upgraded to artillery, we could start in on the Portuguese cities; we need to take out about half of them to reach domination.

 

[CKS]

Two other things:
I haven't optimized our core for anything, as it is only partially railed and I'm lazy.

There is a galleon with full movement in New The Hague. I think we should load it with some cavalry and send it across to Portugal, and then load those cavalry into our armies. They'll be safer, and when we get to attacking instead of just pillaging, we'll need 4 cavs in an army for the increased attack strength (since we'll fighting infantry). (Remember, I lost two basically full strength armies to rifles.) Once we get replaceable parts and espionage, we can spend our money cash-rushing armies, but we'll be able to build enough cavalry to fill them from our other cities.

 

[del62]

Will have a look at save tonight

 

[tupaclives]

I think we research full-speed to espionage and have a pre-build ready to claim the intelligence agency the turn the tech comes in. We might be able to trade it + cash to Babylon for replaceable parts but at that point we might as well shut off research and just steal (if we can steal every 3 turns thats a lot faster than 8-turns for self-research). Careful steals have virtually the same success rate as safe steals but we just have a lower chance of getting away if it fails.

We don't need Infantry, nor artillery, nor double worker speed urgently enough to warrant going for replaceable parts first I feel. I think once we have Espionage + Rep Parts we need to go for refining as quickly as possible to find portugese oil. Once we have the Portugese oil spigot permanently shut off we can start preparing ourselves for the eventual invasion of Portugal (bombers. Lots and lots of bombers, and an infantry army or three, then we simply move a cav army next to a city, bomb the defenders into nothing, take the city (or raze it probably is better), rinse and repeat. I think that once we know for sure that Portugal's oil is switched off it just becomes a slog through to an eventual victory.

 

[del62]

ok

i have played through six turns before reading tupaclives comments and we get replcacable parts in 1, we can get espionage in 5 next or we could go medicine then scientific method to gambit on the TOE, either the portugese have not researched scientific method yet or they cant build it because they are in mobilisation.

Meanwhile Babylon is collapsing against the portugese onslaught as we pillage portugese improvements,

portugal definately have flight and motarised transport

EDIT: note with its soon to be built coal plant Amsterdam will be producing just over 80 shileds per turn allowing 5 turn armies and a 8 turn run at TOE

EDIT: The portugese no longer have wine, Iron or Saltpeter

 

[tupaclives]

If we can nab ToE then why not, getting Hoover's would be useful (though not the end of the world if we miss out on it). If we reckon we can get it then let's go for it.

 

[CKS]

On stealing:
With an embassy, safe steals have a 52% chance of success while careful steals have a 44% chance. With spies the chances are 68% and 60%. The extra 8% is more significant when stealing with an embassy.

Remember, though, it costs more to steal from Portugal than from Babylon; it will be more like an attempt every 4-5 turns. The difference between research and stealing is going to be minimal. As we rail, we'll get more specialists, but that will help either way.

On Babylon:
At least they have that big island, so their final collapse will be delayed.

On Portugal's oil:
There aren't very many places it could be (marsh, desert, tundra). Upon reflection, I bet they have a source on their tiny island (Arequipa). We may need a naval blockade, though I bet it is next to the city. We should probably send some frigates to bombard and blockade.

 

[del62]

On Babylon:
At least they have that big island, so their final collapse will be delayed.

The Portugese have already captured a city on that Island

On Portugal's oil:
There aren't very many places it could be (marsh, desert, tundra). Upon reflection, I bet they have a source on their tiny island (Arequipa). We may need a naval blockade, though I bet it is next to the city. We should probably send some frigates to bombard and blockade.

A naval blockade when they have Battlrships and destroyers running around is easier said than done, and they also have airports

 

[CKS]

A naval blockade when they have Battleships and destroyers running around is easier said than done, and they also have airports

Very true. And it will get more difficult when they have the Babylonian island. If that island is their oil source, though, we'll have to take it out somehow.

This makes me wish our rifles and infantry were smart enough to look up and shoot.

 

[del62]

Should get this finished tomorrow, unfortunately the Portugese built the TOE, I must have missed them starting it, anyway it happened before starting medicine, the portugese have Rocketry! I can tell from their TOWs.

We are 2 turns off espionage with an Army swap for Intelligence Agency in 3.

 

[Daeron]

Don't forget the UN, please. Perhaps we should start sucking up to the Mongols just in case.

 

[del62]

Ok the set is complete

A brief summary - We have 4 Armies out pillaging portugal, we did have 5 but a Portugese Tank decided to get frisky with him, (I should have loaded him with another unit), we have 3 more Armies on our homeland.

We have discovered replacable parts and are 2 turns of espionage.

We are at war with both the Portugese and the Babylonoians, and have a minior trade with the mongols, we receive 2gpt in a tech deal.

The turn set.

Spoiler :

Pre turn

Sell New Maastricht Barracks
Sell Hyangsans Barracks

Change Tax men to scientist, we can get RP in 20 or 8

IBT

1255

Dont understand why the Portugese didnt attack any ships
Some workers produced

IBT

1260

Portugese Land Units next to amsterdam, 3 inf and cav on hill

Elite Cav beats redlined inf
Lose Elite Cav vs redlined inf
Vet Cav beats red lined inf
Elite Medieval Inf loses to red lined inf
Army loses quite a few HP against red lined inf but wins
Vet cav beats cav

IBT portugese land inf and tank

1265

Beat both using vet cavs

IBT

Amsterdam completes factory -> coa plant
Portugese land 1 cav

1270

Elite Cav takes cav down

ibt not much

IBT

not much

1280

IBT

First artillarry bombard of cav army
We discover replacable parts
Factory Built in Amsterdam though only 74spt I miscalculated
Wosnan Settler -Settler
Hysang worker foreign -> worker
The Hague Uni-> Factory
Utrecht and Gronigen, Arnhem and Harlem all produce Cav
Taejon Settler
Breda Aquaduct -> Court
Maastricht Settler
New Howlerd 2 Worker -> Wealth
New Middleburg2 Worker -> Wealth
New Breda 2 Worker -> Wealth
Portugese complete TOE - somehow I missed this, I will go espionage

1285

We go espionage
We must have lost war happiness IBT
Sell Steam Power to mongols for Economics 2gpt and 35 gold

Portugal has TOW Infantry Apparently accoding to our advisor -rocketry

IBT

Portugese are building Hoover Dam

1290

A bit of pillaging, and railing
MM Farms

IBT

One more artillery attack on cav army

1295

See 1290, I also notice we are at war with Babylon, must have been from the loss
pf their capital

IBT Tank takes out med inf army

1300

Railing and Irrigating, MM farms and pillaging

Hand off notes

Once we have espionage we can cut off research if we want.
We have an Army being built in our capital due is 3 which can be switched to the Intelligence Agency, or we can use him to mount an initial invasion of portugal, i.e. 3 infantry, with anothe to add, a load of artillery after upgrade and get the wholse thing kicking off

I have a number of towns building aqueducts to improve farms and increase unit support, our units are currently just under the required level

Current Units

6 Galleons in New The Hague
3 Cavalry Armies in Eindhoven and 3 out pillaging in Portugal along with one Knight Army
47 Cannons on a mountain outside Amsterdam
1 Chinese Settler with cannons
One Infantry, two Swiss Mercs and 14 rifles in Haarlem
4 Medieval Infantry in Middleburg
23 Cavalry in Arnhem
Lots of workers busy

Unit Support
Allowed 154
we have 153

 

[del62]

Some Pictures

Spoiler :

 

[CKS]

I think we need the intelligence agency more than the next army. We can't steal without it, and we need to get to refining to find the oil. If the tanks aren't attacking our cav armies, we could start a real attack with them, but I'd rather keep them pillaging for now.

Remember, we can cash-rush armies, so once we are done stealing (or researching) we can quickly get a lot of armies up and running.

When attacking TOWs fortified in cities, a healthy 4-cav army is likely to kill a redlined TOW. If we can starve and/or bombard them down to towns we'll have better luck.

Once we raze the Portuguese cities in the Northeast of their continent, we can use armies to block off that little neck if we need to, so we can settle that section relatively safely. That section won't quite get us quite to the domination limit - it gives us about 200 tiles - so we'll need about 100 more from Portugal (or Babylon).