[RD] War in Gaza: News Thread

[Bonyduck Campersang]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/22/israel-largest-west-bank-settlement-blinken-visit/

Israeli settlements in the West Bank are considered illegal under international law. Still, Israel has used land orders like the one issued Friday to gain control over 16 percent of Palestinian-controlled lands in the West Bank. The newly seized area includes parcels in the Jordan Valley and between the settlements of Maale Adumim and Keidar.

If Israel confiscates land around Jerusalem, all the way to the Dead Sea, there will be no future for a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem,” said Hamza Zubiedat, a land rights activist for the Ramallah-based Ma’an Development Center. “This is where a Palestinian capital was supposed to be located, according to the American and European talks.”

The land transfer will also cut across the West Bank, dividing the north and south. “If the Israelis annex this area near Maale Adumim, it will be a catastrophe for Palestinians who live in the south,” Zubiedat said. “Palestinian traders, especially in the south, will be cut off, and it will become impossible to have any independent Palestinian ways of life.”

Palestinians have little ability to stop the land transfers. After the 1967 war, Israel issued a military order that stopped the process of land registration across the West Bank. Now families lack the paperwork to prove that they have private ownership over their land. And tax records, the only other evidence of West Bank property rights, are not accepted by Israeli authorities.

In June, the Knesset waived a long-standing legal precedent that required the prime minister and the defense minister to sign off on West Bank settlement construction at every phase. Smotrich enjoys near-total control over construction planning and approvals in the West Bank, and approved a record number of settlements in 2023.

 

[Gorbles]

It depends on what you mean by genocide. I believe we may not agree on that.

It doesn't matter what any of us agree on. It's been debated in the Hague and "they're on the track to it" is far more than a statement to the opposite. It's as simple as that, and avoids getting the thread tied up in it

 

[Narz]

I think that doing nothing was a better option than what they are doing

When someone kills over a thousand of your people you can't do nothing.

It depends on what you mean by genocide. I believe we may not agree on that

Seems like any civilian casualties in a war zone is genocide by some people's definition. The bombings of Dresden, Hiroshika and Nagasaki would've been super genocide by that standard.

 

[Gorbles]

When someone kills over a thousand of your people you can't do nothing

Interesting. So what should Gaza do in the face of 30,000 of their own dead?

Or heck, you want to run the bodycount Israel inflicted during on Gaza prior to October 7th?

Seems like any civilian casualties in a war zone is genocide by some people's definition.

Nah. It's more like nothing can ever possibly be genocide for some people. Doesn't matter what the ICJ says. Doesn't matter what independent experts say. Some person on the Internet knows better, because it makes it easier to stick it to other forum posters on a video game forum

 

[innonimatu]

I think that doing nothing was a better option than what they are doing. But realistically, what they doing, but with more emphasis on civilian lives.

I won't repeat myself but I will link to what I said in the other thread, when I advised the "do nothing" option. The view within Israel was (is) that the problem wasn't not Hamas but the existance of the palestinians and their continued resistance.

So if Israel "did something" as a reaction to that, it inevitably followed that their reaction would be to attempt genocide as a final solution. In no plausible scenario would Israel invade Gaza with its military just to shoot it out with Hamas, the cost to that was much too big for such limited goal. And indeed the occupation force has not managed to defeat Hamas in straight fighting, which they could have chosen to attempt if they had provided properly for evacuation of civilians into some other place within Israel. Something Israel could have done at will but refiused to. The civilian population is being ring-fenced within the bombed area and starved deliberately, by the IOF.

The emphasis on murdering civilians is deliberate, is the goal. The choice of starvation as the main tool to achieve it is both economy of means and a way to delay the international reaction against it. History repeating itself, ironically by the very country that still insists on playing the victim card.

 

[Narz]

Interesting. So what should Gaza do in the face of 30,000 of their own dead?

Or heck, you want to run the bodycount Israel inflicted during on Gaza prior to October 7th?

This is the small guy fallacy (exemplified in Of Mice & men). A smaller guy picks a fight with a bigger guy and if he gets beat up the bigger guy is bully (and if he wins he's a champ). Someone come @ you with a fork & you have a gun they shouldn't whinge when they got hurt worse, maybe just don't get stabby. Hamas chose to act knowing it would suffer worse causalities. They chose it for international attention & sympathy, like Gandhi or MLK but you know, with terrorism

stick it to other forum posters on a video game forum

It's your hobby, you're like my gf's kid, wherever I go there you are ready for some attention

I won't repeat myself but I will link to what I said in the other thread, when I advised the "do nothing" option. The view within Israel was (is) that the problem wasn't not Hamas but the existance of the palestinians and their continued resistance.

So if Israel "did something" as a reaction to that, it inevitably followed that their reaction would be to attempt genocide as a final solution. In no plausible scenario would Israel invade Gaza with its military just to shoot it out with Hamas, the cost to that was much too big for such limited goal. And indeed the occupation force has not managed to defeat Hamas in straight fighting, which they could have chosen to attempt if they had provided properly for evacuation of civilians into some other place within Israel. Something Israel could have done at will but refiused to. The civilian population is being ring-fenced within the bombed area and starved deliberately, by the IOF.

Maybe I don't have the right information, but when has Hamas engaged in "straight fighting" recently? It's not the 1700's, armies don't line up in rows & shoot each other, especially in this kind of war. Hamas launched a massive string of terror attacks & then hid among civilinans. Again, what is Israel meant to to do? And is Israel slaughtering Palestinian civilians willy nilly in the West Bank or setting up concentration camps in Tel Aviv? The war-zone is Gaza because that's what Hamas wanted. I have sympathy for the innocents there but if Hamas actually cared their leaders should just surrender to be executed but with a list of demands. They glorify suicide to kill Jews but why not surrender & actually stop the suffering you created, if Hamas surrenders & Israel keeps up the over the top tactics ok then I'll join the crowd in condemning them. When your people are attacked in a over the top war an over the top reaction is to be expected (and the ball in is Hamas court)

The emphasis on murdering civilians is deliberate, is the goal. The choice of starvation as the main tool to achieve it is both economy of means and a way to delay the international reaction against it. History repeating itself, ironically by the very country that still insists on playing the victim card.

And comfortable Americans & Europeans smug in judging them meanwhile we've been doing sanctions for a century. When they're doing it they don't care (maybe "oh yes of course I was against the war in Iraq" but that's about it), if it's happening in Africa "meh, that's wrong I guess, I don't know much about it" but nothing brings everyone together like condemning Israel after they've been attacked.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Someone come @ you with a fork & you have a gun they shouldn't whinge when they got hurt worse, maybe just don't get stabby.

This is the most idiotic thing I've read in this thread, not least because that's not how this works in real life either. If I stab someone with a fork and they shoot me with a gun, that someone won't be allowed to just walk away.

This is a good – if harrowing – example of the absolutely insane genocidal logic coming from Israel's defenders, that if A attacks B first then B has the permission to do anything they like to A. Israel could literally put Gazan men in gas chambers, enslave Gazan women, and chuck Gazan children into the sea, and these ghouls would still be going 'Maybe Hamas shouldn't have started it'.

They also conveniently ignore the fact that Hamas didn't 'attack' Israel, but is fighting back against a occupying power that effectively controls and expands into Palestinian territory. The now-locked Israel-Palestine thread is a good starting point for documentation on how this didn't start on 7 Oct.

 

[Narz]

They also conveniently ignore the fact that Hamas didn't 'attack' Israel

but is fighting back against a occupying power that effectively controls and expands into Palestinian territory.

The 2nd could be argued but obviously the 1st is false. What's next 911 was self defense against American imperalism?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

The 2nd could be argued but obviously the 1st is false. What's next 911 was self defense against American imperalism?

9/11 and 7 Oct are nothing alike, but I see you've not kept abreast of any developments later than the initial Zionist propaganda pieces

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

That aside, I suppose you are on board with Americas's 'retaliatory' actions post-9/11?

 

[Narz]

That aside, I suppose you are on board with Americas's 'retaliatory' actions post-9/11?

Of course not. We attacked the wrong country.

 

[Narz]

9/11 and 7 Oct are nothing alike,

Pretty similar, terrorist attack on civilians, 9/11 caused more causalities but oct 7th more diffuse and probably more terrorizing as it was all over the place

Did 10/7trooth.org inform you it was a false flag?

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Of course not. We attacked the wrong country.

Then you believe America's actions in Afghanistan were justified?

 

[Narz]

Then you believe America's actions in Afghanistan were justified?

We were too late there and then stayed too long but it's good we killed Bin Laden.

He'd probably have a good laugh @ being a tiktok star now.


Unfortunately war these days doesn't seem to be about winning quickly or accomplishing anything but making lots of money for war profiteers (who are certainly enjoying the Gaza conflict).

 

[Gorbles]

This is the small guy fallacy (exemplified in Of Mice & men). A smaller guy picks a fight with a bigger guy and if he gets beat up the bigger guy is bully (and if he wins he's a champ). Someone come @ you with a fork & you have a gun they shouldn't whinge when they got hurt worse, maybe just don't get stabby. Hamas chose to act knowing it would suffer worse causalities. They chose it for international attention & sympathy, like Gandhi or MLK but you know, with terrorism

I don't think you understand how fallacies work. Nor do you seem to understand how the law works. Not everywhere is the US. "stand your ground" nonsense doesn't work where you now live in the UK, for example. So this "fork and gun" idea of yours is a complete non-starter.

But beyond that, you can't even keep your argument straight. You said that when someone kills over a thousand people, a country has to do something. But you pivot to inventing excuses as to why Gaza / Hamas / anyone shouldn't do anything in face of Israel killing Gazans with impunity, both prior to and after October 7th.

Why not? Why does Israel get to do whatever they want because of October 7th, but are immune to any consequences for what they've been doing in Gaza and the West Bank for years?

It's your hobby, you're like my gf's kid, wherever I go there you are ready for some attention

This is, uh, something

 

[Narz]

Why not? Why does Israel get to do whatever they want because of October 7th, but are immune to any consequences for what they've been doing in Gaza and the West Bank for years?

Did I say they should do whatever they want?

I'm saying it shouldn't be a surprise. That doesnt mean I support Israeli response. But some folks seem to think there shouldn't even be a response.

And then of course there's the outright denial that Hamas even attacked Israel which I assume is driven by some 911 style conspiracy.

 

[lymond]

Moderator Action: Back To News Now -lymond

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

US decides no aid for the Palestinians if they take Israel to court

https://twitter.com/x/status/1771561840541159830

 

[Gorbles]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1771824514646589816

Israel ‘threatens to destroy Al-Shifa with people inside'

After attacking the medical complex for days, the Israeli military has threatened to destroy Al-Shifa, the Gaza government media office said.

www.newarab.com

"After attacking the medical complex for days, the Israeli military has threatened to destroy Al-Shifa, the Gaza government media office said."

 

[Kyriakos]

I hadn't realized that being on the right side of history includes enabling a genocide.

Israel Not Complying with World Court Order in Genocide Case

The Israeli government has failed to comply with at least one measure in the legally binding order from the International Court of Justice, in South Africa’s genocide case.

www.hrw.org

Really the life of palestinian people is worth nothing, and you don't even hear mere talk of sanctions.