Warhammer Heart of Chaos: Design Discussion

[Ahriman]

I got brought here by deadliver I'm don't know much about Warhammer's universe but I'm willing to help with the modding, if you would want o, P_L (or any other guy in charge). Mostly, I could help with the SDK I'm able to mod the XML or the Python too, though.

That would be truly fantastic, I wouldn't know an SDK from a dll or an xml if they bit me in the ass.

If you're interested in helping out, go here http://forums.civfanatics.com/profile.php?do=editusergroups
and request to join the Civ4 Warhammer FB group, and I can add you.

If there were a few SDK changes we could do, one of my priorities would be trying to make civics able to give bonuses to only particular specialist types.

Other than that, talk to the technical people who have more of a technical clue than me (ie, everyone else).

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Haha, I'm glad you're pleased

Are you using FF051 as a base? With modular loading and all? I'm not accustomed to modding this DLL, though, but I can learn. TBH, it would certainly be easier for me to just use LENA's DLL as there's already some interesting things in it you could use... but if you want all FF's things, then, well, I don't have the choice

Please try to make me a list

Well... and heres a wild thought... is it possible to merge LENA and FF dll? (i know this is probably wayyyy too much effort lol)

what changes have you made in LENA? ive been playing Orbis/LENA a lot and my favourite mechanic so far is the Fort commanders. i think that is essential to have in WH.

once i have an idea what else LENA and Orbis can offer ill make a propper list of requests

 

[Ahriman]

I've never played LENA or Orbis. Can you post a link that describes what features these include?

We're definitely going to stick with a FF core, that gives us so many useful xml tags and such.

Also: Opera, your membership is accepted, you should see the Warhammer team forum now.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I've never played LENA or Orbis.

you really should. there are links in Operas Sig. its a fantastic mod. "FF is MOAR, but Orbis is perfection" as i saw someone say once. Orbis is a very smooth game with no bugs that i can see.

 

[Opera]

Well... and heres a wild thought... is it possible to merge LENA and FF dll? (i know this is probably wayyyy too much effort lol)

Yeah, a lot of effort. I guess it would be easier to just create things in Warhammer's DLL rather than to merge.

what changes have you made in LENA? ive been playing Orbis/LENA a lot and my favourite mechanic so far is the Fort commanders. i think that is essential to have in WH.

Fort Commanders don't use the DLL.

In LENA, I added BonusAttitudeModifiers for leaders, AlignmentStructs (alignment attitude modifiers based on each leaders), BlockCivilization in Improvements, LeaderRelations... Some tweaks to the religion system too. But minor ones. I also add City Population Cap (building/civics/techs modifiers).

once i have an idea what else LENA and Orbis can offer ill make a propper list of requests

Orbis has most of FF tags. The things Orbis doesn't have are easy to find. Especially, Orbis doesn't have the Commander system nor the Modular system.

I've never played LENA or Orbis. Can you post a link that describes what features these include?

Check my signature

We're definitely going to stick with a FF core, that gives us so many useful xml tags and such.

As I said, most of them are already in Orbis/LENA. But I'm not here to discuss on that.

Also: Opera, your membership is accepted, you should see the Warhammer team forum now.

Okay

 

[Dragonson]

Ive looked through the design thread and it looks AWESOME ^^
Great work PL! =D But... i'm abit confused. Are you taking on a lead position again or what?

Also... do you plan of using the old techs? for if you need some good tech quotes or other storywriting (or something...) i might have some sparetime when not modding M&A =)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Are you taking on a lead position again or what?

nah, im just being organised the work load is spread over a few people now (thank god) so im no longer a ball of stress.

Also... do you plan of using the old techs?

were re doing the tech tree, but well be reusing as many tech quote we had as possible.

 

[deadliver]

Also: Opera, your membership is accepted, you should see the Warhammer team forum now.

You should be flattered Opera, all I got was a stripper telegram...a male one

 

[Dragonson]

were re doing the tech tree, but well be reusing as many tech quote we had as possible.

Coolio =) Gimme a word if any writing needs come up!

 

[deadliver]

Coolio =) Gimme a word if any writing needs come up!

Hey thanks man! We need all the writers we can get, what with rlaf crushing tracheas over minor grammatical errors...

 

[Dragonson]

Where do i start then?

 

[Ahriman]

Here is a list of the techs, tech blurbs are always valuable:
I'm not sure which already have something written.

Otherwise, the units are in the design post, feel free to suggest some fluff text for the various units.

* * *

R: means requires.
0 means nothing.
A: means allows.

AND and OR requirements are shown in requirements, but not in allowances.

Spoiler :

Basic techs:

Fishing. R:0. A:crafting, sailing.
Agriculture. R: 0. A: crafting, animal husbandry, calendar.
Wild paths. R: 0. (given free at start). A: 0
Roads. R: 0. (given free at start) A: Imperial roads.
Hunting: R: 0. A: Animal Husbandry, Archery, warfare.
Mining: R: 0. A: Bronze working.
Mysticism. R: 0. A: Ancient Lore, Calendar, Ceremonial Burial, nature lore.

Brewing. R: Agriculture A: 0
Crafting. R: Fishing OR Agriculture). A: Masonry, trade.
Animal husbandry. R: Agriculture OR hunting. A: Horseback riding, Tracking.
Calendar. R: Agriculture OR Mysticism. A: Astrology, Mathematics.
Ancient Lore. R: Mysticism. A: Philosophy, Writing.
Archery. R: Hunting. A: Bowyers, military discipline.
Ceremonial Burial. R: Mysticism.

Metal working line:

Spoiler :

Bronze working. R: mining. A: Metal casting, military discipline.
Metal casting. R: Bronze working. A: Iron working.
Iron working. R: Bronze working. A: Advanced Smithing, military tradition, machinery.
Advanced Smithing. R: Iron working. A: Meteoric Iron, Steel.
Meteoric Iron. R: Advanced Smithing AND Astrology.
Steel. R: Advanced Smithing AND advanced engineering. A: 0

Tactics line:

Spoiler :

Warfare. R: Hunting. A: Military discipline, words of salvation,.
Military Discipline. R: Warfare AND bronze working AND (Archery OR horseback riding). A: Tactics, monster breeding, bowyers, stirrups, Lordship, Tyranny.
Tactics. R: Military discipline AND (Tyranny OR Lordship) AND Archery AND horseback riding. A: Mercenary contracts, military tradition.
Mercenary contracts. R: Tactics AND currency. A: 0.
Military tradition. R: Tactics AND (Civil Service OR Feudalism) AND Stirrups AND Iron working AND bowyers. A: Rifling, Advanced doctrines 1.

Archery line:

Spoiler :

Bowyers. R: Archery, military discipline. A: Advanced Archery, military tradition.
Advanced Archery. R: Bowyers. A: 0.

Recon line:

Spoiler :

Nature lore. R: Hunting AND mysticsm. A: Tracking, Monster taming, Lore of Athel Loren, Lore of Life, elemental magic.
Tracking. R: Nature lore. A: Monster bonding, elemental mastery.

Beast taming line:

Spoiler :

Monster taming. R: Nature lore. A: Monster breeding, Lore of Beasts.
Monster breeding. R: Monster taming, military discipline.
Monster bonding. R: Monster breeding, tracking. A: 0.

Cavalry line:

Spoiler :

Horseback riding. R: animal husbandry. A: Stirrups, Trade, military discipline, tactics.
Stirrups. R: Horseback riding, military discipline. A: Tournaments, military tradition.
Tournaments. R: Stirrups, feudalism. A: 0.

Trade line:

Spoiler :

Trade. R: Sailing OR horseback riding. A: Currency, navigation.
Currency. R: Trade AND metal casting AND Lordship. A: Guilds, mercenary contracts, civil service.
Guilds. R: Currency AND (Civil service OR feudalism). A: Banking.
Banking. R: Guilds. A: Economics.
Economics. R: Banking. A: 0.

Construction line:

Spoiler :

Masonry. R: Crafting. A: construction.
Construction. R: Masonry. A:Sanitation, Irrigation, Engineering, Imperial Roads.
Sanitation. R: Construction. A: Advanced Engineering.
Irrigation. R: Construction. A: Advanced Engineering.
Imperial Roads. R: Construction, Roads, Civil service.
Engineering. R: Construction AND Machinery. A: Rifling, Advanced engineering, advanced doctrines 1.
Advanced engineering. R: Engineering AND civil service AND irrigation AND sanitation. A: Steel, Steam Power.

Chemistry line:

Spoiler :

Alchemy. R: Metal casting AND Philosophy. A: Cannons, lore of metal.
Cannons. R: Alchemy AND Invention. A: Rifling.
Rifling. R: Cannons AND military tradition AND engineering. A: 0.

Mechanisation line:

Spoiler :

Mathematics. R: Masonry AND Philosophy. A: Invention.
Invention. R: Mathematics AND construction. A: Machinery.
Machinery. R: Invention AND iron working. A: engineering.
Steam power. Req: Advanced engineering. A: 0.

Naval line:

Spoiler :

Sailing. R: Fishing. A: Trade, Navigation.
Astrology. R: Calendar. A: Navigation, Meteoric iron, Lore of Heavens.
Navigation. R: Sailing, Writing, Astrology. A: Astronomy.
Astronomy. R: Navigation. A: 0.

Government line:

Spoiler :

Lordship. R: Military discipline. A: Currency, Feudalism.
Tyranny. R: Military discipline. A: Feudalism, Fanaticism.
Feudalism. R: Lordship OR Tyranny. A: Guilds, Tournaments.
Civil service. R: Currency, literacy. A: Guilds, advanced engineering, imperial roads, lore of shadows.

Religion line:

Spoiler :

Ceremonial burial. R: Ancient lore. A: Priesthood, Eternal Life, lore of death.
Philosophy. R: Ancient lore. A: Words of Salvation, Corruption of chaos, Priesthood, Alchemy.
Words of Salvation. R: Warfare AND Philosophy. A: Lore of Light.
Corruption of Chaos. R: Philosophy AND raw magic. A: Bloodlust of Khorne, Gifts of the Plague one, Lore of Change, Slaanesh's pleasures.
Eternal life. R: Philosophy AND ceremonial burial. A: Necromancy.
Priesthood. R: Philosophy AND ceremonial burial. A: Literacy, fanaticism.
Fanaticism. R: Priesthood AND Tyranny. A: Advanced doctrines 1.

Education line:

Spoiler :

Writing. R: Ancient lore. A: Literacy, navigation, Winds of magic.
Literacy. R: Writing AND priesthood. A: Education.
Education. R: Literacy. A: Arcane Lore.

Elemental magic line:

Spoiler :

Elemental magic. R: Raw magic AND nature lore. A: Master of Fire, Master of Air, Master of Water, Master of Earth.
Master of Fire. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Master of Air. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Master of Water. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Master of Earth. R: Elemental magic. A: Elemental mastery.
Elemental Mastery. R: (Master of Air OR Master of Fire OR Master of Water OR Master of Earth.) AND tracking.

Winds of magic line:

Spoiler :

Winds of magic. R: Raw magic AND writing. A: Lore of death, lore of fire, lore of shadow, lore of metal, lore of beasts, lore of light, lore of life, lore of heavens, arcane lore.
Lore of death. R: ceremonial burial AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of fire. R: Literacy AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of Shadow. R: Civil service AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of beasts. R: monster taming AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of metal. R: alchemy AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of life. R: nature lore AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of light. R: words of salvation AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Lore of heavens. R: astrology AND winds of magic. A: 0.
Arcane lore. Req: Winds of magic AND education. A: 0.

Chaos line:

Spoiler :

Bloodlust of khorne. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Gifts of the plagued one. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Lore of change. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Slaanesh's pleasures. R: Corruption of chaos. A: Chaos incursion.
Chaos incursion. R: Bloodlust of khorne OR Gifts of the plagued one OR Lore of change OR Slaanesh's pleasures. A: End times.
End times. R: Bloodlust of khorne. A: 0.

Other Magic line:

Spoiler :

Raw magic. R: 0. A: winds of magic, elemental magic, lore of athel loren, high magic, dark magic, necromancy, WAAGH!, magic of the horned rat, insatiable hunger, magic of the old ones.
Lore of athel lore. R: Raw magic AND nature lore. A: 0.
High magic. R: Raw magic. A: 0.
Dark magic. R: Raw magic. A: 0.
Necromancy. R: Raw magic AND eternal life. A: Arcane mastery.
WAAGH! R: raw magic. A: Arcane mastery.
Magic of the horned rat. R: raw magic. A: Arcane mastery.
Insatiable hunger. R: raw magic. A: arcane mastery.
Magic of the old ones. R: raw magic. A: arcane mastery.
Arcane mastery. R: Necromancy OR WAAGH! OR MAgic of the horned rat. OR Gut magic OR Magic of the old ones. A: 0.

Future tech line:

Spoiler :

Advanced doctrines 1. Requires: Military tradition tech, requires fanaticism tech, requires engineering tech,
Advanced doctrines 2. Requires advanced doctrines 1 tech.
Advanced doctrines 3. Requires advanced doctrines 2 tech.

 

[Dragonson]

Ah! Thank you!
Well, untill i know wich techs has text and wich doesent, i think its some fluff text for me =P

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Ok i have come across the most cannon source of Amazonian information we will ever get.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19768332/Amazon?autodown=pdf&secret_password=952rw9ye60zf0a6f6rq

i have also downloaded the file.

i will redesign the amazonians based on this information. its seriously good stuff.

 

[deadliver]

Ok i have come across the most cannon source of Amazonian information we will ever get.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19768332/Amazon?autodown=pdf&secret_password=952rw9ye60zf0a6f6rq

i have also downloaded the file.

i will redesign the amazonians based on this information. its seriously good stuff.

Nice doc! Bro. Good hunting.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Hey thanks man! We need all the writers we can get, what with rlaf crushing tracheas over minor grammatical errors...

Hey, I haven't made anyone bleed...yet. Seriously though, quit taking what I say so seriously. Also, Opera & Dragonson, lemme officially welcome you to the team.

 

[Dragonson]

Sooo... do i just post the fluff text here or? And to be on the safe side: Fluff text are small comments like for example:

Worker:
I might be able to crush your head with a snap of my fingers, but if i dot that, who's going to chop down all those irritating trees? - Melmen, Empire Mage

Right?

 

[Ahriman]

Create a text submissions thread, or find an old one and resurrect it.

I think for units we want more a description of a unit, rather than some one-liner.

Think of the descriptions and stories and vignettes on the FFH units and heroes; that is what we are aiming for. For example:

Bloodletter of Khorne
• Background: "Bloodletters are Lesser Daemons, known variously as the Footsoldiers of Khorne, the Warriors of Blood, the Teeth of Death or the Horned Ones. Carrying blades quenched in the blood of a generation of fallen warriors, they march behind twisted banners that flutter in no earthly breeze accompanied by the chanting of the names of those slain in battle. They are bestial creatures, with snarling fanged mouths, whose skin drips constantly with blood, their matted manes shaped into spines with dried gore. Like the raging god from which they are born, Bloodletters have no desire but to shed blood on the field of battle. They are clad in fragments of armour, which is sometimes melded to their skin, and wield massive swords." (From Mark of Chaos).

• Unit Name: Plaguebearers of Nurgle
• Requirements: Temple of Nurgle, Corruption of Chaos state religion, Gifts of the Plagued One tech.
• Background: "Plaguebearers have distended, cyclopean faces that leer from atop famine-wasted frames and corpulent bellies, split from within by gushing organs. Sometimes known as the Tallymen of Plagues, they count the diseases of the world, numbering the poxes and contagions in sonorous chants that burble and echo from fanhed mouths. Dripping with unnatural excretions, the Maggotkin feel no pain, for they are every lingering death, every moment of delerium and fevered starvation." (From Mark of Chaos).

Mark of Chaos has similar fluff text for:
Empire:
Swordsmen, halberdiers, handgunners, flaggelants, huntsmen, greatswords, pistoliers, reiksguard, knights panther, knights of the blazing sun, great cannon, hellblaster volley gun, Captain, Warrior priest of sigmar, jade wizard, bright wizard, elector count
High elves:
Spearmen, archers, silver helms, shadow warriors, ellyrian reavers, swordmasters of hoeth, eagle claw bolt thrower, commander/prince, light/high mage, light/high archmage, great eagle, dragon prince
Chaos:
warhounds of chaos, marauders of chaos, marauder axe throwers, warriors of chaos, knights of chaos, chaos furies, plaguebearers (above), bloodletters (above), chaos spawn, sorceror, aspiring champion of nurgle/khorne, sorceror of nurgle, hellcannon, daemon prince, wyrdspawn
Skaven:
Giant rates, clanrats, stormvermin, gutter runners, plague censer bearers, poisoned wind globadiers, rat ogres, warplock jezzails, warpfire throwers, warp-lightning cannon, screaming bell, engineer, assassin, warlord, grey seer
Dwarf:
Hammerers, rangers, warriors, grduge thrower
Goblins:
Goblin, night goblin, spear throwers (goblin, nightgoblin), goblin shaman
Orc:
Orc boyz, warboss, Arrer Boyz
Troll
Giant
Chaos giant

Though I'm not sure how much material we should lift directly (are there any copyright issues?)

 

[Dragonson]

Ah. Okay =)
I think that a new submissions thread would be cool. Though i'm pretty sure i wouldnt be the best person to found it.

Oh and PL: I am best at tech quotes, and i really enjoy making those, so could you give me a list of the techs you already have text for? its a minor issue ofc, i just like making tech quotes....

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i edited the amazonians a bit. go take a peak.