Warhammer Heart of Chaos: Design Discussion

Sooo... do i just post the fluff text here or? And to be on the safe side: Fluff text are small comments like for example:

Worker:
I might be able to crush your head with a snap of my fingers, but if i dot that, who's going to chop down all those irritating trees? - Melmen, Empire Mage

Right?

This is excellent. Except change "dot" to "do". Lol. Not a big issue. But we wanna try to reduce spelling issues. Imho, grammar's not a big deal. I don't really care personally about grammar. But I think spelling most words correctly is key. Spell check is your friend!
 
Ah. Okay =)
I think that a new submissions thread would be cool. Though i'm pretty sure i wouldnt be the best person to found it.

Oh and PL: I am best at tech quotes, and i really enjoy making those, so could you give me a list of the techs you already have text for? its a minor issue ofc, i just like making tech quotes.... :drool:

Unless Arexack made fluff text when he did the tech xml, I'd think that all techs would currently be fluffless. I may be wrong. May wanna doublecheck that. I'm just making an assumption. Talk to Arexack_Heretic about tech fluff. Try sending him a PM, I gather he's pretty busy in RL. PM'll be the best way to get ahold of him.
 
The techs are fluffless for now, but there was a significant number of tech quotes already created for the old version, which we will re-use. There was a thread about it somewhere too....
 
Royal Palace of the Sisterhood (Repalces Palace) acts like the Elven white towers and alows the amazon serpent priestesses to be built. requires palace.

Either it *replaces* the palace or requires it, it can't do both.

Is there a reason why you think priests should only be buildable in the capital?

If we have this: another idea for this; give it a 5% bonus from each of the Old One Feature resources. And it would be at magic of the old ones tech I presume.


Shrine of Rigg (Replaces Waystone) +10% milprod -10% building production, on top of other waystone effects.
Temple of Karra (Replaces Temple of the Old Ones) +10% milprod -10% building production, on top of other temple effects.
Interesting, will need playtest.
Rewrite the temple though in full; +1 happy, +1 influence, +10% mil prod, -10% building production. Seems a bit weak compared to the others, maybe add a resource bonus too?

Fountain of Eternal youth (Replaces Sewer) no unhealth from Population -20% food storage.
No unhealth from population is basically equivalent to removing unhealth, since unhealth from other sources is pretty rare.
Thats far too powerful for a building; you're making an entire faction immune to unhealth, in a mod where unhealth is designed to be pretty common!
Altar of the Serpent: (replaces Coven). Required to build Jungle Swarms, Naga and Couatl. +1 Happy from Insense, +1 happy from Silk. +2 influence, +2 xp for arcane.

This doesn't make sense; if you're requiring that arcane units be built from the White tower-style wonder, then covens should be blocked.
This is also powerful as a coven replacement, and why should they be benefiting from Silk???

The Obsidian Pyramid: (Wonder) provides 1 stone to the civ, +25% city defence for all cities, +20% hammers. can turn 2 citizens into engineers.
Quetzhyl's Orchard (Wonder) Provides 1 Dyes to the civ, +1 Happy from Jungle, Can turn 2 citizens into Lords.
Put the pyramid at masonry tech, and the orchard at irrigation.

Prowler (requires ???) Strength 8/7 2 moves, double moves in jungle and marsh, +20% Jungle and Swamp terrain strength, invisible in jungle and marsh. Can see hidden animals. Can see invisible units. +25% city attack, ignores walls.

Hmm, quite powerful. How about toning it down to 7/6, and having it require tactics tech and tracking tech, and making it recon class. National limit 5.

Pygmy Spearman warband (replaces Spearman warband). Strength 3/2 +1 Poison. Can use wartats/Obsidian weapons. +25% vs shock cavalry units, 10% vs chariot units. Starts with Cannibal
How about 2/3+1 for the spearmen. So the axemen are offensive, the pymyies are defensive.

Pygmy Archer warband. (replaces Archer warband). Strength 3+1 poison. Can use wartats, +25% city defence. +25% hill defense. 1 First Strike. +25% vs missile cavalry. Starts with Cannibal
How about javelins, or blowguns, instead of archers?

Amazonian Swordswoman (replaces Militia Swordsman). Strength 5. Can use Obsidian weapons. +25% vs melee units, +10% city attack.
Amazonian Spearwoman (replaces Militia Spearman). Strength 5. Can use Obsidian weapons. +25% vs shock cavalry units. +10% vs chariot units.
Probably need to be able to use wartats, or they'll be outclassed.

normal swordsmen/spearmen with iron weapons are 7.
these guys with wartats and obsidian would be 6/5 +15% = 6.9/5.75
Amazonian Javalineers (replaces Militia archers). Strength 4/6. Can use wartats/quality bows 1-2 First strikes. +40% city defense. +25% hills defense. +25% vs missile cavalry.
Quality bows feels a bit strange for javelins, as does the normal missile cavalry bonus...
How about making them archers, and making the pymies javelins (or blowguns). Seems more flavorful to me anyway; European "amazon" mythology had them as supreme archers, who would cut off their left breast to make drawing a bow easier.

Handmaidens(replaces Pikeman). Strength 5/7. +25% vs melee units. +25% vs chariot units. +40% vs shock cavalry units. Can use obsidian weapons.
Again, probably need wartats.
Valkyrie(replaces Royal Guard). Strength 8/5 +1 holy. Can use Obsidian weapons. immortal.
I'd bump them down to 7/5 +1; immortality is huuuuge.


Cold One Chargers. (replaces lancers) Strength 6/4, 3 moves. Can use Obsidian weapons. Can withdraw from combat 25%, +25% vs missile units, +25% vs chariots, +50% vs siege units. no penalties from jungle and swamp. causes Fear. Stupid.
I'd reduce them to 2 moves.


Serpent Priestess (replaces hedgewizard) same stats but starts with 'Channeling 1', 'Lore of the Serpent 1',
Serpent High Preistess (Replaces Wizard) same stats but starts with 'Channeling 1 2', 'Lore of the Serpent 1 2',
Sisterhood Matriarch (Replaces Battlewizard) same stats but +0.5 affinities with the 6 old ones resources. starts with 'Channeling 1 2 3', 'Lore of the Serpent 1 2 3',

Are these buildable, or upgrades, like elven mages? I think upgrades at level 4 and 6.
So make sure that the palace thing is only required for the basic priestess or its an annoying micro-pain to move them back to the capital to uprgade (and the AI won't upgrade them).

Jungle Swarms: (Replace Troll.) Strength 1+ 3 Poison, no metal weapons, immortal, 2 moves, 20% withdrawal chance, no war weariness from death, +20% Jungle and Swamp terrain strength.

I'd make them 3+1 poison, so they are weak rather than completely useless vs anything with poison resistance. Remember that being poison strength is a penalty, beyond the first point which adds the poisoned promotion to anything damaged by them.

I'd make them 5/6+2 poison, and 2 moves. remember giants and unicorns are strength 10 and griffons strength 9.
 
Anakonda (needs a better name):
Serpentine (needs a better name):
First name seems fine to me. Second name needs some work. Maybe we could steal a name from some other fantasy game? Idk.
Prowler (requires ???) Strength 8/7 2 moves, double moves in jungle and marsh, +20% Jungle and Swamp terrain strength, invisible in jungle and marsh. Can see hidden animals. Can see invisible units. +25% city attack, ignores walls.
I like this unit. As ya know, I have an affinity for assassins. (Particularly PL’s new Team Member Hero for me, Are’Laff. :lol: ;) :p Yeah, I really like that unit. :D) This unit is excellent. Since Amazons don’t use siege engines, this fulfills that role. The key is weight it high enough that the AI likes to build the unit, but not high enough that they spam it.
Maybe we could avoid spamming by setting a cap of X (I’m thinking between 10 & 12 for a cap, 15 is too high imho) on this unit? That way, even if we accidently weighted it too high, the AI would only be able to build 10 to 12 of it. Of course, that might mean the AI researches the techs for it to get it as quickly as possible, but I don’t think it’ll be too big an issue. Will need playtesting to see.


Have more to say. But I have to run to Trig class.
 
I may be wrong. May wanna doublecheck that. I'm just making an assumption.

there is an old tech quote thread floating around here somewhere... there were a lot of tech quotes in there already but a lot that havent been done. also we have a few new techs. im not sure where that thread is though.
 
Either it *replaces* the palace or requires it, it can't do both.

haha oops. typo. i originally had it as replacing the palace but thought it would be better to just require it.

Is there a reason why you think priests should only be buildable in the capital?

well the Sisterhood is centered around the Amazon Capital which has the Royal Palace of the Sisterhood, as well as the Great Statue of Rigg.

If we have this: another idea for this; give it a 5% bonus from each of the Old One Feature resources. And it would be at magic of the old ones tech I presume.

good idea.

Interesting, will need playtest.
Rewrite the temple though in full; +1 happy, +1 influence, +10% mil prod, -10% building production. Seems a bit weak compared to the others, maybe add a resource bonus too?

ok. how about lose the building penalty on the temple then? and throw in +1 health from toads.

No unhealth from population is basically equivalent to removing unhealth, since unhealth from other sources is pretty rare.
Thats far too powerful for a building; you're making an entire faction immune to unhealth, in a mod where unhealth is designed to be pretty common!

im trying to think of a way to represent the Amazonians immortality. either we do it this way or have Amazonian Citizens which acts the same as the elven citizens.

This doesn't make sense; if you're requiring that arcane units be built from the White tower-style wonder, then covens should be blocked.
This is also powerful as a coven replacement, and why should they be benefiting from Silk???

true. ill merge this with their Temple.

Hmm, quite powerful. How about toning it down to 7/6, and having it require tactics tech and tracking tech, and making it recon class. National limit 5.
How about 2/3+1 for the spearmen. So the axemen are offensive, the pymyies are defensive.

ok.

How about javelins, or blowguns, instead of archers?
blowguns it is.

Probably need to be able to use wartats, or they'll be outclassed.

normal swordsmen/spearmen with iron weapons are 7.
these guys with wartats and obsidian would be 6/5 +15% = 6.9/5.75
Quality bows feels a bit strange for javelins, as does the normal missile cavalry bonus...
How about making them archers, and making the pymies javelins (or blowguns). Seems more flavorful to me anyway; European "amazon" mythology had them as supreme archers, who would cut off their left breast to make drawing a bow easier.
Again, probably need wartats.
I'd bump them down to 7/5 +1; immortality is huuuuge.
I'd reduce them to 2 moves.
ok

Are these buildable, or upgrades, like elven mages? I think upgrades at level 4 and 6.
So make sure that the palace thing is only required for the basic priestess or its an annoying micro-pain to move them back to the capital to uprgade (and the AI won't upgrade them).

upgrades like the elven mages.


I'd make them 3+1 poison, so they are weak rather than completely useless vs anything with poison resistance. Remember that being poison strength is a penalty, beyond the first point which adds the poisoned promotion to anything damaged by them.
I'd make them 5/6+2 poison, and 2 moves. remember giants and unicorns are strength 10 and griffons strength 9.
ok
 
either we do it this way or have Amazonian Citizens which acts the same as the elven citizens.

This would be ok, but high elven citizens is partly to compensate for having such good basic units (the extra movement and first strike). Amazon units aren't that great.
You could just have amazon population give +2 health or something.
 
i wonder if theres a way to make the fountain of eternal youth ignore 50% of the unhealth from population....

I doubt there is, and that would still be very strong; +6 health for a size 12 city?

Amazon heroes:

Priestess
Matriarch
Warrior Princess.
Warrior Queen.

What do these promotions do? How are they different from the normal upgrade promotions? The whole point of these generic promotions was so that we didn't have to create new ones for each hero
Its not worth having new promotions that are functionally identical to existing ones. And champion and Lord and still be used for female heroes.

Heroic resilience promotion. One off Immortality.
Heroic resilience *is* one-off immortality.

Starts with equipment: The Amulet of the Moon. +3 'Tablet of the Moon' Affinity, Immune to Magic.
+3 strength if you get that resource? Too strong if you have it, too weak if you don't. It shouldn't be an all or nothing.
How about an 0.4 affinity with each of the 6 resources.

Lizard heroes:

'Last of the Ancients' promotion
Which does what; is this just a placeholder for learning geomancy?

Geomancy 1:
Again, I am against creating new magic types just for a hero or two. Katarina was an exception.

The tech tree is going to get way too cluttered with all the magic type promotions allowed.

------- Part the Waters – turns coast adjacent to the caster into desert. 4 turns to cast. 2 turn cooldown.
Hell no. a) way too powerful, especialyl combined with "spring" type spells if they are available. But being able to build a land-bridge of desert across continents? Or to choke off enemy coastal cities and trade routes?
b) changing ocean to land can cause all kinds of engine problems, it messes up trade route pathing, it changes continent status, tons and tons of problem.

On foot model, 1 movement, 3 strength +1 poison, no metal weapons, can use war tattoos.
Seems a bit weak. Compare him to the other priest heroes.

Shield of Sotek' promotion (+15% defence, +15% magic resistance)
Why make it a promotion and not just tie the stats into the unit? We need to avoid clutter when we can, particularly on units who are going to get a lot of promotions.
Also, defense bonuses on a hero are generally weak, you don't normally want the hero defending.

Starts with equipment: Totem of Sotek: Can summon 1-3 permanent jungle swarms
Random numbers don't really work here, and I don't see any reason for it.


Stegadon promotion
+1 movement, Causes Fear, +20% defence, +1 first Strike. Shock Cavalry Class.

Couatl promotion
+2 movement, flying, Gives +15% spell damage, Twincast. Beast class.

Why not use the existing Mounted and Winged Mount promotions?
 
What do these promotions do? How are they different from the normal upgrade promotions? The whole point of these generic promotions was so that we didn't have to create new ones for each hero
Its not worth having new promotions that are functionally identical to existing ones. And champion and Lord and still be used for female heroes.

did you look at the hero promotions list in the last post?

Heroic resilience *is* one-off immortality.

oh yeh. then make them fully immortal.

is this just a placeholder for learning geomancy?

yeh

Why not use the existing Mounted and Winged Mount promotions?

did you even read what the promotions are meant to do?

Why make it a promotion and not just tie the stats into the unit?

fluff, makes the game more emmersive. this promotion can be used for other skink preists if you want.

Seems a bit weak. Compare him to the other priest heroes.

suggest a way to make him stronger then?


i thought as much. maybe change it to summon a permanent Floating Island ocean transport with 10 unit capacity and a promotion which increases the strength of the unit according to the number of units loaded in it (for defensive purposes.)

Again, I am against creating new magic types just for a hero or two. Katarina was an exception.

The tech tree is going to get way too cluttered with all the magic type promotions allowed.

its 2 promotions. whats the big deal? im pretty adament that Mazdamundi gets these spells.

How about an 0.4 affinity with each of the 6 resources.

i dont even know if we can have decimal affinity.
 
did you look at the hero promotions list in the last post?

No; rename that spoiler tag "hero promotions", so its obvious what it is.

You're making too many promotions. The more promotions we add, we get a LOT more clutter. We have to add in extra OR options for all our Tactics/leadership etc. line promotions, its much more effort for anything we change later. The entire point of using only a few common promotions was to save on clutter, to make balancing easier, to make the relative evaluation of heroes easier and to make it simpler to change things. You're moving away from that design.

Poison strength and anti-demon are a bad combination, since IIRC demons are immune or resistant to poison. Just use the high priest and archpriest promotions, instead of priestess and high priestess.

You have a typo in venom lord (or I did), it should be giving +2 strength +1 poison strength, not +3 poison.

Remove the warrior princess/warrior queen, and make them venom champion/venom lord.
They're basically the same promotions, and there is no need for
Tie a slave capture chance (50%) into the base stats of Anakonda.
oh yeh. then make them fully immortal.

No way. Permamently immortal heroes need to be very very weak. These guys aren't.

is this just a placeholder for learning geomancy?
Then why does Tetenwhatever have it too?

did you even read what the promotions are meant to do?
Yes, and that's my point, they don't seem interesting enough to justify new promotions, its better to use the existing mechanic.
I could live with them though.
fluff, makes the game more emmersive. this promotion can be used for other skink preists if you want.
There isn't really going to be much flavor gain here, because the unit is already going to have 8-10 promotions, its just going to get lost in the mess. Too much clutter.

its 2 promotions. whats the big deal?
Because you're creating 4-5+ promotions for each new hero, in a mod with 40 different heroes! This mod is going to end up with 500+ promotions if we aren't careful, which will be a nightmare for players to figure out and navigate. And there isn't anything here that is importantly different from existing elemental magic.
If you want him to summon rock creatures, give him access to summoning earth elementals. If you want him to be able to have units cross oceans, give him access to a water walking spell. There are a ton of damage spells already - why create a new one?

i dont even know if we can have decimal affinity.
I thought that FF had this.
Don't some of the Kahdi units have decimal affinity?
 
I don't think you actually added these hero promotions into your design doc anywhere:

Quick draft of a few possible chains:
Spoiler :

Tactician 1. Requires [Footman OR mounted]. All units in the stack gain +5% strength and 1 first strike chance.
Tactician 2. Requires Tactician 1 AND [Champion OR champion of chaos OR venom champion]. All units in the stack gain +5% strength and +5% withdraw chance.
Tactician 3. Requires Tactician 2 AND Lord. All units in the stack gain +5% strength and 1 first strike chance and +5% withdraw chance.

Administration 1. Requires: [Champion OR High priest OR champion of venom]. Gives +1 happiness, +15% hammers, +1 health to cities in range 1.
Administration 2. Requires: [Champion] AND Administration 1. Gives +1 happiness, +15% hammers, +1 health to cities in range 5.
Administration 3. Requires Lord AND Administration 2. Gives +1 happiness, +15% hammers, +1 health to cities in your empire.

Siegecraft 1. Requires: [Footman OR Champion OR Champion of chaos OR venom champion] Gives +5% city attack, +5% city defense to all units in the stack, increase bombardment of all units in the stack that already have bombardment +5%.
Siegecraft 2. Requires Siegecraft 1 AND [Lord OR Dwarf or Chaos dwarf]. +5% city attack, +5% city defense to all units in the stack, increase bombardment of all units in the stack that already have bombardment +5%.
Siegecraft 3. Requires Siegecraft 2 AND [Dwarf or Chaos Dwarf]. All units in the stack ignore city walls.

Weaponmaster 1. +15% strength. Requires [Footman OR Champion OR Champion of chaos OR venom champion OR high priest]
Weaponmaster 2 +15% strength. Requires [Champion OR Champion of chaos OR venom champion] AND Weaponmaster 1
Weaponmaster 3 +1 strength. Requires [Lord OR Favored of Chaos OR venom lord] AND Weaponmaster 2

Healer. Requires [High Priest OR Archpriest]. Gives +25% heal rate to units in the stack.
Swoop attack. Requires Aerial mount. Gives 1-2 first strikes.
Heroic charge Requires Mounted AND [Champion OR Champion of chaos OR venom champion]. Gives +10% attack strength, +10% withdraw chance.
Summoner. Requires [Archmage OR Warlock OR Sorceror]. And some heroes start with this. Summoned creatures start with Strong promotion.


These and potentially more of them are why I want to keep the hero promotions simple, or we will have to recode every one of these promotion requirements every time we add a new one. Huge PITA.
 
No; rename that spoiler tag "hero promotions", so its obvious what it is.

You're making too many promotions. The more promotions we add, we get a LOT more clutter. We have to add in extra OR options for all our Tactics/leadership etc. line promotions, its much more effort for anything we change later. The entire point of using only a few common promotions was to save on clutter, to make balancing easier, to make the relative evaluation of heroes easier and to make it simpler to change things. You're moving away from that design.

Poison strength and anti-demon are a bad combination, since IIRC demons are immune or resistant to poison. Just use the high priest and archpriest promotions, instead of priestess and high priestess.

You have a typo in venom lord (or I did), it should be giving +2 strength +1 poison strength, not +3 poison.

Remove the warrior princess/warrior queen, and make them venom champion/venom lord.
They're basically the same promotions, and there is no need for
Tie a slave capture chance (50%) into the base stats of Anakonda.

ok then :)

No way. Permamently immortal heroes need to be very very weak. These guys aren't.

ok. ditch that then. just heroic resilience.

Then why does Tetenwhatever have it too?

typo from copy/paste haha :p

Yes, and that's my point, they don't seem interesting enough to justify new promotions, its better to use the existing mechanic.
I could live with them though.
compare and contrast:

Stegadon: +1 movement, Causes Fear, +20% defence, +1 first Strike. Shock Cavalry Class. requires tech monster bonding.
Mounted: +1 movement, shock cavalry class, +20% vs archer, REMOVES Footman. Requires tech: Stirrups.
Couatl promotion: +2 movement, flying, Gives +15% spell damage, Twincast. Beast class. Requires tech: Monster bonding.
Aerial mount. +2 movement, flying, +1 first strike. Beast class. REMOVES Mounted, Removes Footman. Requires tech: Monster bonding.

now tell me they arent different?

I thought that FF had this.
Don't some of the Kahdi units have decimal affinity?

does it? if so awesome :)

Because you're creating 4-5+ promotions for each new hero, in a mod with 40 different heroes! This mod is going to end up with 500+ promotions if we aren't careful, which will be a nightmare for players to figure out and navigate. And there isn't anything here that is importantly different from existing elemental magic.
If you want him to summon rock creatures, give him access to summoning earth elementals. If you want him to be able to have units cross oceans, give him access to a water walking spell. There are a ton of damage spells already - why create a new one?

hmm how about:
Starts with Earth 1

Can learn:
Earth 2
Earth 3

Earth 1 with Lizardman Promotion:
------- Ruination of Cities – reduces city defences by 10-20%, has a very small chance to destroy a building. 1 turn cooldown.
------- Earthline – Damages strongest enemy stack. 15% to a max of 100% physical damage (can kill) can be resisted. 1 turn cooldown.
Earth 2 with Lizardman Promotion:
------- Move the Mountains – Turn Hill into Flatlands, and Summons a Rock Giant. 4 turns to cast. 2 turn cooldown.
------- Part the Waters – .

There isn't really going to be much flavor gain here, because the unit is already going to have 8-10 promotions, its just going to get lost in the mess. Too much clutter.

ok then. removed.
 
compare and contrast:

<shrug> I can live with them. Compromise and all that :)

hmm how about:
Starts with Earth 1
Can learn:
Earth 2
Earth 3

Tying them into the Elemental earth line is interesting.... but would require that they research 2 extra techs (elemental magic and master of earth) just for some promotions for a single hero.
So that probably won't work either.

I'm also slightly confused; is he supposed to be a general archmage hero, or just be using some kind of earth magic? What magic is he intended to have access to?

My impression was that he is basically a Slann hero, with access to all 8 Winds.

You've given him channeling 1, but that won't help him learn anything by itself.

Why not just let him be a hero Slann, with access to all 8 Lores? Surely that is enough magical access; already more than any other hero. He hardly needs extra new spells on top of that. This guy could already potentially have dozens of spells that he could cast at any one time!

Also:
Slann Mage-Priest: Strength 8, 1 moves, starts with channelling 1 2 and 3. starts with all slann spells, can learn any wind of magic. Tablet of the Sun, Moon, Earth, Stars, World Pond or Flame Affinity +1.

You need to drop the strength or affinities on this guy. Strength 14 archmages? Ummm.... no. Drop him to strength 5 with 0.5 affinity for each resource.
 
Tying them into the Elemental earth line is interesting.... but would require that they research 2 extra techs (elemental magic and master of earth) just for some promotions for a single hero.
So that probably won't work either.

:hmm: true
I'm also slightly confused; is he supposed to be a general archmage hero, or just be using some kind of earth magic? What magic is he intended to have access to?

Mazdamundi is the most powerful wizard alive in all the warhammer world. he is also the oldest. hes the last remaining second generation slann and is an increadible geomancer. i believe he had a huge hand in the earthqaukes that shook the world spine mountians and ruined a lot of dwarven fortresses.

My impression was that he is basically a Slann hero, with access to all 8 Winds.

yes those and the Disaster Spells and ideally access to Very powerful Earth magic. but i guess your right :/
how about linking his 4 spells to the Jade Wind instead of Earth Magic? we can ditch the part the waters and have 3 instead, one at each level of Jade magic. requiring Jade and lizardman?

You need to drop the strength or affinities on this guy. Strength 14 archmages? Ummm.... no. Drop him to strength 5 with 0.5 affinity for each resource.

:hmm: very true haha changed. (though i think 5 is too low. will you settle for 6? or 5/6?
 
Mazdamundi is the most powerful wizard alive in all the warhammer world. he is also the oldest. hes the last remaining second generation slann and is an increadible geomancer. i believe he had a huge hand in the earthqaukes that shook the world spine mountians and ruined a lot of dwarven fortresses.

But that doesn't mean that he can be more powerful than heroes of other factions. Balance and all that.
we can ditch the part the waters and have 3 instead, one at each level of Jade magic. requiring Jade and lizardman?

This sounds workable.

very true haha changed. (though i think 5 is too low. will you settle for 6? or 5/6?

The archmages of other factions are 6; you're making these guys potentially strength *9* if they start at 6. And there are several spells that give strength boosts; there is a lore of fire 1 spell that gives +1 fire strength, some death spells that give bonus death strength, a beast spell that gives I think +2 strength +1 movement and blitz.
I don't want to make these guys into combat monsters as well as the best archmages in the game.
 
But that doesn't mean that he can be more powerful than heroes of other factions. Balance and all that.
yeh.. *sigh*. balance is the bane of creativity :)p)

The archmages of other factions are 6; you're making these guys potentially strength *9* if they start at 6.

ah yeh true. ok then. deal :p

This sounds workable.

really? huzzah!:D
 
But that doesn't mean that he can be more powerful than heroes of other factions. Balance and all that.

Why can't he be more powerfull? In the world of warhammer the armies are balanced out, but not in magic vs. magic, war machines vs. war machines. That is some of the beauty with the game.

Don't know if it is to hard to balance it out that way around.
 
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