Best Axeman?

Best Axeman?

  • Basic Axeman (most civs) is fine

    Votes: 14 9.3%

  • Phalanx (Greek)

    Votes: 36 24.0%

  • Vulture (Sumerian)

    Votes: 81 54.0%

  • Dog Soldier (Native American Empire)

    Votes: 19 12.7%
  • Total voters
    150
IAM

IAM

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Best Axeman!

Basic Axeman (most civs) Requires Bronze working tech + copper or iron
5:strength: 1:move: 35:hammers:
+50% vs. melee units

Phalanx (Greek) Requires Bronze working tech + copper or iron
5:strength: 1:move: 35:hammers:
+100% defense vs. chariot
+50% vs. melee units
One Greek leader is aggresive so that's free combat I + double production speed of barracks

Vulture (Sumerian) Requires Bronze working tech + copper or iron
6:strength: 1:move: 35:hammers:
+25% vs. melee units
Protective trait with leader for free archery promotions


Dog Soldier (Native American) Requires Bronze working tech
4:strength: 1:move: 35:hammers:
+100% vs. melee units
Protective trait with leader for free archery promotions + totem pole Unique building gives +3 experience points to new archery units


I like the Sumerian civilization best from these three. The Native American Empire is great for early wars and barbarians. Overall though the Phalanx combined with Alexanders aggresive trait is the best Axeman Unique Unit. It's great in offensive and defensive situations and is the best in a stand alone situation.
 
I prefer the vulture, it has a higher base strength and is therefore better against archers.
 
I prefer the Vulture, too, for its base strength. It's a great rush unit. It's only problem is if the AI has researched animal husbandry, has horses when you get there, and has built Chariots. I generally only find archers.

Alexander's Phalanxes are quite good, also. You don't need to add spears if you run into chariots. Both are better than stock.

Dog Soldiers. No thanks. They're resourceless and marginally better against melee, but worse against everything else. For a rush I'd rather have a standard axeman.
 
Alexanders phalanxes wins this. They are far more versatile than the Vulture and since you can give them cover straight from the barracks they perform very solid against archers. Still not as good as CR-Vultures, but good enough. In the end I'll rate them as this:

1. Alexanders' phalanxes
2. Vultures
3. Aggressive axes
4. Pericles' phalanxes
5. Dog soldier
6. Basic axe
 
Vultures win in my book ... partly due to higher base str, partly from the AI's inability to spam Chariots for aggersive-defensive duties
 
windsor said:
alexanders phalanxes wins this. They are far more versatile than the vulture and since you can give them cover straight from the barracks they perform very solid against archers. Still not as good as cr-vultures, but good enough. In the end i'll rate them as this:

1. Alexanders' phalanxes
2. Vultures
3. Aggressive axes
4. Pericles' phalanxes
5. Dog soldier
6. Basic axe
Click to expand...

bam!!!!!!
 
Without taking into account AGG phalanxes/axes, I'd say Vulture. Even with AGG in the picture, Vulture is still a strong contender.

TBH, I've never found chariots a problem when axe rushing, but maybe that's because I don't play on higher difficulties. Usually I only encounter archers/warriors.
 
I'd go with vultures. These are basically begging to be used in early rushes, and with Sumeria's UB being a cheaper courthouse which is available with Priesthood, it's great for early expansion.
 
Vulture: A swordsman requiring only BW that also receives a bonus against melee units. :D
 
I actually voted for the dogs. On the higher levels, axe rushing is highly situational, which means your axemen will usually be relegated to barb/stack defense. Dog soldiers do this better, you get them sooner, and you always have them. Plus, you can pull off a pretty nasty choke with dogs if that's your style.
 
itg said:
I actually voted for the dogs. On the higher levels, axe rushing is highly situational, which means your axemen will usually be relegated to barb/stack defense. Dog soldiers do this better, you get them sooner, and you always have them. Plus, you can pull off a pretty nasty choke with dogs if that's your style.
Click to expand...


I reckon you are spot on if playing immortal + . I would add though that Vulture also has a handy use on high levels being it`s effeciency at taking Barb cities which is sometimes one of the only viable expansion options.

I know Swords do the job better , but if I play Sumeria and dont have a viable rush target , I`ll head to Priesthood while trying to pick up Barb cities , build some Zigs then head to Iron working . Hopefully by this stage I have soemone to kill and have some CR 2 or 3 vultures and will build the swords as a more useful anti-chariot option than spears if I have iron and hopefully skip hunting .

I know that means not building Gilgamesh`s protective archers , but if I`m heading to priesthood then Monarchy is not far away and even better , you carn try and steal Feudlaism with the early great spy from the Zig and build protective Longbows .
 
Vulture, by a mile.

Practical cost-efficient general purpose unit, with decent rush potential. Not quite in the same league as War Chariots or Praetorians in terms of sheer power, but not for behind.

Phalanxes are rather limited. Their ability is unlikely to save me a lot of hammers because a) Spears are still better at the job and b) they're fairly hard counters, so you don't need many anyway.
They're also somewhat misplaced and would be more useful in a civ that doesn't start with Hunting: Here they'd enable us to keep building cheap garrison warriors alongside axemen without opening ourselves up to a devastating chariot attack.

Dog Soldiers are the one UU I'd trade in for the vanilla version more often than not. They are also somewhat misplaced - having another servicable resourceless unit available would be of more value to leaders who didn't blow a trait and a UB on better archers. Ironically they cause more resource problems than they solve, because Native America requires iron rather than copper or iron for a good generalist/can opener.
 
Similar to what I said in the thread about Ragnar - Hunting and Fishing are so bad that Greece cannot realistically hope to axe rush anybody, making Phalanxes essentially useless.

Vultures are the best and Sumeria have good starting techs, allowing them to potentially launch a decent rush. Alas, Gilgamesh is Pro, which really fails to synergise with an axe UU. :sad: I'm also not completely convinced that Vultures are a huge upgrade as ordinary axemen (and especially AGG ones) match up against them quite well, but they have potential.

As for Dog Soldiers, they are another questionable design decision to go with axeman UU in a can't-rush civ and axeman UU for a Protective leader. The Dog Soldier gives us the worst of both worlds. He can't attack cities defended by archers on account of his lamentable base strength, he comes under a Protective leader; and not only that, but the unit is redundant for barb defence in a civ that already has defensive overkill from its leader trait and UB. :gripe:

It's all a bit annoying. Axes are so cool, yet there is really no convincingly good Axeman UU.
 
In flatland cities without culture, fortified Archers have winning odds against non-AGG Axemen but losing odds against vultures. Because there's a jump point for combat odds at strength parity, this can make a Vulture rush far less costly.

While there are more overall powerful UUs, Vultures and Immortal stand out here. Later on, Vultures are also nice since they beat archers solidly without being countered by regular Axes.
 
Enemy axemen do take the shine off Vultures, imo, with unpromoted base axes having good odds against them. If the target has no metals then it's on, but then again that is usually a preferable criterion for any early rush. I certainly agree that Vultures are splendid against archers.
 
Vulture vs. regular Axeman is a little more complicated than that... Vultures perform better against regular Axemen than a mirror would if external modifiers are greater than 50% in favour of the Vulture or greater than 25% against them. In between, they do worse.

So while Vultures are weak against Axemen out in the open, they can be an asset for taking down heavily fortified Axeman-defended cities and weathering a counterattack by CR Axemen (although Giggles also has protective Archers for the latter)
 
i dont' get it. Why axemen are stronger vs vultures? Axe are 5 :strength: with 50% against melee: 7.5, vultures are 6 :strength: with 25% vs melee: 7,5.
 
IIRC, all modifiers are applied to the defending unit (except Combat promos, but that's not a factor here). Both side's modifiers are first totaled up, and then the difference is found. The difference is then applied to the defender.

So an Axeman with 5:strength: and +50% vs. melee against a Vulture with 6:strength: and +25% vs. melee would be calculated this way (assuming the Vulture is defending):

50% - 25% = 25%

So it becomes:
Axe: 5:strength:, +25%
Vulture: 6:strength:

Then the Axe's +25% is subtracted from the Vulture (since it's the defender), so the Vulture's strength becomes 4.5. Axeman wins.

If the Axe is defending, then instead of -25% for the Vulture, it's +25% for the Axe, which would give it 6.25 strength. Axeman still wins.
 
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