[Vote] (1-10) Make Paper Maker Make Paper Proposals

[Recursive]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 1, Proposal 10
Title: Make Paper Maker Make Paper: New China Unique Building
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor(s): @pineappledan
Previous Discussion Thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-make-paper-new-china-unique-building.679060/

Proposal Details
China's UB, Paper Maker, doesn't give you Paper. Literally Unplayable.

Rather than just giving people the option of changing the UB, I thought I would give the community the opportunity to vote if they wanted China to have a UB, a UNW, or a UI

unique or boosted attributes are underlined

Spoiler Change proposal :

art by me (pineappledan)

UB - Gongyuan (Imperial Examination Hall) (replaces Chancery)

Unlocked at Education​

300 Production cost​

+1 Paper​

+1 Gold for every City-State Friend and +2 Production for every Ally​

+1 Gold for every 4 Citizens in the City ​

+10% Production to Diplomatic Units​

"Royal Signet" promotion to Diplomatic Units trained in the City​

1 Civil Servant Specialist Slot and +2 Culture for all Civil Servants in this City​

The Chinese Imperial Examination System (www.chinaknowledge.de)

The examination system (keju zhi 科舉制) was the common method of selecting candidates for state offices. It was created during the Tang period and became during the Song period the prevalent form of choosing appointees.

www.chinaknowledge.de

VP Congress: Session 1, Proposal 10a
Title: Make Paper Maker Make Paper: New China Unique Wonder
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor(s): @pineappledan, @Recursive
Previous Discussion Thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...er-make-paper-new-china-unique-wonder.679835/

Proposal Details
Problem:
China's UB -- the Paper Maker -- is bland, underpowered, thematically and historically silly, and it doesn't even give you Paper. Literally Unplayable.

Rather than just giving people the option of changing the UB, I thought I would give the community the opportunity to vote if they wanted China to have a UB, a UNW, or a UI

unique or boosted attributes are underlined

Spoiler Proposed UNW :

Tàicháng Sì
(replaces Scrivener's Office):
available at Writing
Requires 15 Population
+1 Culture per 5 Citizens
+3 Paper (up from 1)
+1 Food in City for every City-State Friend and +1 Faith for every Ally
+3 Gold to all Chanceries on Empire
+10% Production towards Diplomatic Units
1 Civil Servant Specialist Slot
Production Cost scales with number of cities on Empire
Creating Great Works grants a We Love the Empress Day and +1in all Cities. These bonuses decline by 50% every Era.

UA Changes:
Remove WLTED and +1 in all cities when creating a Great work (bonus in UA from gaining cities only)
Add +10% Gold during WLTED (moved from old Paper Maker to UA, now +10% )

VP Congress: Session 1, Proposal 10b
Title: Make Paper Maker Make Paper: New China Unique Improvement
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor(s): @pineappledan, @Rekk
Previous Discussion Thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/16b-counterproposal-make-paper-maker-make-paper-new-china-unique-improvement.679836

Proposal Details
Problem:
China's UB -- the Paper Maker -- is bland, underpowered, thematically and historically silly, and it doesn't even give you Paper. Literally Unplayable.

Rather than just giving people the option of changing the UB, I thought I would give the community the opportunity to vote if they wanted China to have a UB, a UNW, or a UI

Spoiler Proposed UI :

Siheyuan
Unlocked at Currency
Must be built on Flat Land, either adjacent to a city or to 2 other Siheyuan and not on a Resource
1
Yields an additional 1 if City is in a WLTED
+1 at Civil Service
+1 at Architecture
+1 at Electricity

UA Changes:
remove the +% during WLTED

 

[josh4]

I feel obliged to cast my vote for good but bland UI, even that I've already cast my vote as my first preference for a UNW with a unique GW mechanism, just because I would much rather see it than this awful chancery on steroids. I think just limiting to one vote would be much clearer?

 

[Rekk]

I feel obliged to cast my vote for good but bland UI, even that I've already cast my vote as my first preference for a UNW with a unique GW mechanism, just because I would much rather see it than this awful chancery on steroids. I think just limiting to one vote would be much clearer?

If you're fine with the UI getting through then go ahead and vote for it. If you're okay with nothing changing at all, then vote for that too.

The only requirement is that you don't vote for things you don't want to pass.

Also, the "unique GW mechanism" exists in the UA with the other proposals.

 

[pineappledan]

Perfectly legitimate to use your vote(s) as a sort of anti-vote, imo

 

[josh4]

Also, the "unique GW mechanism" exists in the UA with the other proposals.

Oh okay, that's great didn't catch that, so much to vote, so much civ to play, so little life...

 

[josh4]

Also, the "unique GW mechanism" exists in the UA with the other proposals.

Can't find it??

 

[pineappledan]

I feel obliged to cast my vote for good but bland UI, even that I've already cast my vote as my first preference for a UNW with a unique GW mechanism, just because I would much rather see it than this awful chancery on steroids. I think just limiting to one vote would be much clearer?

Assuming that next round I won't propose to also buff China's UU, and absolutely RANSACK her UA as compensation for giving her stronger components.

 

[Rekk]

Can't find it??

It's on the UA right now in game.

Creating Great Works or gaining Cities grants +1 Food and +1 Gold in all of your Cities.

 

[Slyceth]

I'll say it, I don't like micro managing lots of Envoy units.

I have spies in the city states I don't own and just coup everything and reload the save file if I fail.
Please change the coup system, it's just so effortless and I can't stop myself from reloading. If anything, make it so when you reload a previously-fails coup will fail again. OR even better so I don't reload at all after a coup failed: SHOW if a coup WILL FAIL or WILL NOT FAIL when hovering over it instead of percentages. Then I can think of another method to convert that city state. As long as it's consistent and the same city state that says a coup will fail will stay uncoupable for 50 turns it won't break game balance, it's just an antidote to reloading which I can't help myself with. Please don't get mad. This is the same effect as reloading, rebalanced so you actually are forced to do quests or send Envoy units but doesn't take you out of the game to let you magically know if a coup will fail or not and reloading if it does.

 

[josh4]

It's on the UA right now in game.

That's completely something else than only on GW. I currently play as China and I would be doing completely different things with that.

 

[Rekk]

That's completely something else than only on GW. I currently play as China and I would be doing completely different things with that.

Switching the yield does not make something into a unique mechanic.

 

[josh4]

Switching the yield does not make something into a unique mechanic.

Unique: "being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else". China with that would be very unique among playstyles, no other civ rewards wide GWs.

 

[Rekk]

Unique: "being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else". China with that would be very unique among playstyles, no other civ rewards wide GWs.

The current UA gives you yields to all of your cities with each GW, which inherently benefits more cities. The mechanic itself enables this, not the yield.

The yields are stronger, not more unique.

 

[hokath]

I'm a fan of having a unique element from the old CSD: the UNW or the UB.
I think it highlights one of the new aspects of VP for new players: I like that there are Civs that do this for various mechanics.

As such I didn't vote for the UI, though it does sound fun!

 

[josh4]

The yields are stronger, not more unique.

The game when you get and from creating GW only plays completely different and enables different playstyles than just and from gaining cities and creating GWs.

 

[Stalker0]

The game when you get and from creating GW only plays completely different and enables different playstyles than just and from gaining cities and creating GWs.

I can agree with this to a point. If it was just one yield to another I could see it, but converting both food and gold into both culture and science is a pretty large shift in identity.

 

[Legen]

Unique: "being the only one of its kind; unlike anything else". China with that would be very unique among playstyles, no other civ rewards wide GWs.

France. And Egypt (Burial Tomb).

Anyway, I voted for the UB, since this has a clear direction on what it pushes China to do and is less bound to yield inflation.

My main concern with the UNW and the UI proposals is that they keep adding potentially large amounts of both culture and science on a civ that is about neither at the moment. The UI one even adds production as well. China then ends as a civ that produces large amounts of everything but faith, and is looking to become a better version of India: plenty of growth, trading the faith part for being good at everything else.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal "Make Paper Maker Make Paper: New China Unique Improvement" passed on November 1, 2022.