2.7 AI-only Game Statistics: 4UC Edition

L. Vern

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 5, 2022
Messages
48
Location
Ontario, Canada
Hello everyone,
this post is quite similar to the last one I made of this type, just running 4UC as the only mod on top of VP (2.7.3)

Spoiler Victory Types :

1666567198316.png

Thanks to @ma_kuh for the excellent idea of how to display the average turns by victory time spread!


Spoiler Civilizations :

Rank​
Civ
Games​
Victories​
Winrate​
Culture Victories​
Diplomatic Victories​
Science Victories​
Time Victories​
Domination Victories​
Average Victory Score​
Average Score Rank​
Turn 100 Average Score​
Turn 100 Average Rank​
Turn 200 Average Score​
Turn 200 Average Rank​
Turn 300 Average Score​
Turn 300 Average Rank​
Turn 400 Average Score​
Turn 400 Average Rank​
Turn 500 Average Score​
Turn 500 Average Rank​
1​
Arabia
25​
11​
0.44​
10​
0​
1​
0​
0​
1978.68​
4.48​
371.88​
3.96​
825​
5​
1447.88​
4.46​
1977.2​
4.3​
0​
8​
2​
Germany
34​
10​
0.29​
6​
3​
1​
0​
0​
2130.44​
3.74​
352.97​
4.59​
941.5​
3.88​
1645.59​
3.78​
1857.44​
4.06​
1403.5​
5​
3​
Austria
17​
5​
0.29​
0​
5​
0​
0​
0​
1989​
4.35​
395​
3.18​
946.41​
3.88​
1614.06​
3.88​
1829.14​
5​
0​
8​
4​
China
24​
7​
0.29​
6​
1​
0​
0​
0​
2230.88​
3.83​
367.88​
3.96​
959.04​
3.71​
1636.62​
3.79​
2203.19​
3.88​
1558.5​
6​
5​
Venice
32​
9​
0.28​
7​
2​
0​
0​
0​
2229.22​
3.81​
382.19​
3.16​
987.59​
3.34​
1579.72​
4.06​
1831.94​
4.94​
1019​
6​
6​
Japan
31​
8​
0.26​
7​
0​
1​
0​
0​
2485.16​
3.48​
426.2​
3.67​
1087.9​
3.23​
1713.52​
3.66​
2453.6​
3.2​
3156​
3​
7​
The Maya
36​
9​
0.25​
5​
2​
2​
0​
0​
2103.64​
4.25​
388.54​
3.31​
1033.74​
3.26​
1694.11​
4​
2026.06​
4.41​
1192​
6.33​
8​
Egypt
32​
8​
0.25​
6​
0​
1​
1​
0​
1724.81​
4.78​
372.23​
3.94​
918.58​
4.26​
1295.13​
5.26​
1451.47​
5.63​
4069​
1​
9​
Korea
21​
5​
0.24​
4​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1382.57​
5.05​
349.52​
4.76​
779.9​
5.29​
1084.86​
5.43​
584​
6.83​
0​
8​
10​
India
34​
8​
0.24​
7​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1978.62​
4.38​
389.09​
3.52​
977.06​
3.85​
1480.36​
4.39​
1783.88​
4.88​
0​
9​
11​
Siam
31​
7​
0.23​
1​
5​
1​
0​
0​
1977.94​
4.32​
367.8​
3.97​
904.87​
4.5​
1558.33​
4.37​
1662​
4.93​
1177​
5​
12​
Persia
21​
4​
0.19​
3​
1​
0​
0​
0​
2762.76​
3.33​
365.8​
3.85​
908.1​
4.25​
1704.1​
3.55​
3059​
2.88​
nan​
nan​
13​
Morocco
36​
6​
0.17​
2​
3​
1​
0​
0​
2124.94​
4.08​
353.14​
5​
868.06​
4.54​
1534.31​
4.11​
1765.95​
4.75​
1638.33​
5​
14​
Brazil
32​
5​
0.16​
5​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2005.16​
4.44​
339.56​
5.25​
846.38​
4.78​
1538.19​
4.47​
1446.55​
5.64​
1975​
4​
15​
Poland
35​
5​
0.14​
5​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2351.2​
3.71​
375.29​
3.86​
940.49​
4.2​
1716.74​
3.69​
2235.25​
4.08​
0​
9​
16​
Ethiopia
22​
3​
0.14​
3​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1754.59​
4.95​
384.33​
3.1​
913.29​
4.38​
1255.38​
5.19​
1710.09​
5.27​
0​
8.5​
17​
The Netherlands
37​
5​
0.14​
0​
5​
0​
0​
0​
1837.14​
4.81​
367.57​
5.27​
833.22​
5.38​
1322.22​
5​
1462.62​
5.46​
648​
7​
18​
Byzantium
32​
4​
0.12​
3​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1666.34​
5.12​
341.31​
5.62​
876.94​
4.53​
1409.77​
4.87​
1789​
5.06​
nan​
nan​
19​
The Iroquois
34​
4​
0.12​
1​
0​
0​
3​
0​
2954.12​
3.09​
373​
3.97​
980.42​
3.82​
1805.94​
3.33​
2865.3​
2.85​
4892.2​
2​
20​
Greece
37​
4​
0.11​
0​
3​
1​
0​
0​
1924.32​
4.57​
376.41​
4.11​
913.62​
4.3​
1426.35​
4.49​
1950.95​
4.55​
1551​
5​
21​
England
19​
2​
0.11​
1​
1​
0​
0​
0​
2013.89​
4.68​
386.06​
5.39​
860.56​
5.56​
1282.47​
5​
2317.9​
3.8​
3631​
2​
22​
Indonesia
29​
3​
0.1​
1​
1​
1​
0​
0​
2491.34​
3.69​
386.1​
4.72​
1061.07​
3.24​
1774.68​
3.43​
2373.1​
4.3​
2663​
4​
23​
The Aztecs
39​
4​
0.1​
0​
3​
0​
1​
0​
1681.05​
5.1​
373.77​
4.18​
901.1​
4.23​
1302.79​
4.9​
1786.83​
5.28​
1516​
5.5​
24​
Portugal
33​
3​
0.09​
3​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2162.21​
4.18​
339.64​
5.67​
860.88​
5.12​
1455.88​
4.85​
1857.19​
5.12​
1706.67​
5.33​
25​
The Inca
28​
2​
0.07​
0​
0​
1​
1​
0​
2548.61​
3.54​
372.26​
4​
997​
3.63​
1808.78​
3.44​
2220.58​
4.17​
4703.5​
1.5​
26​
Polynesia
30​
2​
0.07​
1​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1824.2​
4.73​
361.73​
4.1​
910.67​
4.13​
1402.97​
4.73​
1962​
4.69​
2533.5​
3​
27​
Babylon
30​
2​
0.07​
1​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1542.87​
5.17​
361.31​
4.14​
855.69​
4.83​
1343.28​
5.14​
1505.8​
5.2​
nan​
nan​
28​
America
31​
2​
0.06​
0​
2​
0​
0​
0​
2048.68​
4.35​
345.07​
4.96​
857.32​
4.71​
1399.71​
4.93​
2265.25​
3.88​
3812​
3​
29​
The Shoshone
33​
2​
0.06​
0​
1​
1​
0​
0​
2313.36​
3.7​
402.8​
2.97​
1039.8​
3.27​
1767.37​
3.17​
2356.62​
3.54​
1936​
5​
30​
Russia
34​
2​
0.06​
0​
0​
1​
1​
0​
1928.79​
4.79​
336.36​
5.42​
746.97​
5.85​
1214.64​
5.45​
1848.53​
4.8​
4713​
1​
31​
Songhai
18​
1​
0.06​
0​
1​
0​
0​
0​
2371.78​
3.83​
347.89​
4.78​
976.28​
3.78​
1643.67​
3.67​
2852​
2.9​
nan​
nan​
32​
The Ottomans
19​
1​
0.05​
1​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1960.42​
4.37​
332.21​
5.63​
799.74​
5.32​
1391.37​
4.63​
2143.18​
4.45​
1709​
4.5​
33​
Carthage
40​
2​
0.05​
0​
1​
1​
0​
0​
1867.28​
4.5​
401.26​
2.51​
997.9​
3.36​
1523.67​
4.28​
2033.32​
4.37​
2269.33​
3.33​
34​
Assyria
25​
1​
0.04​
0​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1980.64​
4.48​
337.44​
5.4​
891.12​
4.72​
1269.68​
5.04​
2030.37​
4.58​
3919​
2​
35​
Rome
27​
1​
0.04​
0​
0​
0​
1​
0​
1550.56​
5.04​
339.4​
5.44​
846.96​
4.68​
1178.12​
5.28​
1826.71​
4.57​
4257​
1​
36​
The Zulus
32​
1​
0.03​
0​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1593.34​
5.22​
347.45​
5.03​
744.58​
5.58​
1257.5​
5.47​
1560.5​
5.69​
0​
7​
37​
The Celts
32​
1​
0.03​
1​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1520.41​
5.19​
361.53​
4.23​
861.23​
4.57​
1398.7​
4.8​
1568.72​
5.17​
nan​
nan​
38​
The Huns
32​
1​
0.03​
0​
0​
0​
1​
0​
1480.19​
5.34​
339.7​
5.57​
809.93​
5.4​
1285.47​
5.23​
1773.62​
5​
2769​
4​
39​
France
39​
1​
0.03​
1​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1581.92​
5.36​
366.97​
5.59​
778.54​
5.97​
1152.76​
5.84​
1538.75​
5.31​
1526.33​
5.33​
40​
Denmark
40​
1​
0.02​
0​
1​
0​
0​
0​
1576.4​
5.3​
328.62​
5.42​
821.42​
5.22​
1216.85​
5.45​
1447.33​
6​
2026.33​
5.33​
41​
Sweden
30​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2046.03​
4.47​
330​
5.8​
787.17​
6.13​
1406.37​
4.93​
2043.82​
4.27​
2284​
4​
42​
Mongolia
27​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1177.81​
5.63​
361.96​
5.62​
810.04​
5.54​
1049.72​
5.92​
1293.67​
6.08​
1302​
7​
43​
Spain
26​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1174.81​
5.69​
345.36​
5.04​
785.2​
5.12​
972.16​
6.24​
1500.9​
5.6​
0​
7​


Spoiler List of Games :

VictoryCivVictoryType
Turn​
Civ1Civ2Civ3Civ4Civ5Civ6Civ7Civ8
ByzantiumCultural
432​
VeniceFranceThe NetherlandsEthiopiaByzantiumSpainEgyptPoland
The MayaScience
435​
The NetherlandsRomeSiamCarthageThe MayaGreeceVeniceThe Ottomans
JapanCultural
403​
SonghaiThe MayaSwedenEgyptJapanEnglandThe ShoshoneThe Celts
BrazilCultural
394​
KoreaCarthageDenmarkArabiaBrazilBabylonRussiaPoland
VeniceDiplomatic
408​
The HunsPolandAmericaThe CeltsEgyptVeniceSwedenCarthage
JapanCultural
431​
PolandEthiopiaGreeceMoroccoThe HunsGermanyJapanThe Celts
RussiaTime
500​
CarthageDenmarkSpainThe IroquoisThe MayaThe HunsRussiaThe Aztecs
ArabiaScience
445​
MoroccoArabiaChinaByzantiumRomeThe ZulusThe CeltsAustria
AmericaDiplomatic
435​
The CeltsDenmarkThe ZulusEgyptMongoliaAmericaEnglandIndia
EgyptCultural
380​
The HunsEgyptPortugalRussiaThe AztecsAssyriaFranceCarthage
The IroquoisTime
500​
The NetherlandsAustriaMongoliaIndonesiaGreeceThe HunsThe AztecsThe Iroquois
ChinaCultural
403​
SiamFranceThe OttomansRussiaThe HunsChinaThe IncaThe Iroquois
AustriaDiplomatic
398​
GreeceIndiaThe HunsThe ShoshoneAustriaThe NetherlandsEthiopiaSiam
PersiaDiplomatic
399​
The IncaPolandPersiaPortugalThe ZulusBrazilPolynesiaGermany
IndiaCultural
335​
SiamCarthageThe ShoshonePersiaRomeIndiaGermanyThe Inca
JapanCultural
326​
GermanyAmericaJapanEthiopiaMoroccoThe CeltsThe HunsThe Shoshone
EgyptCultural
411​
EnglandSpainThe ShoshoneMongoliaEgyptThe MayaAmericaRussia
The ShoshoneScience
466​
The OttomansMoroccoEthiopiaByzantiumPersiaThe MayaThe ShoshoneAssyria
IndiaCultural
371​
RussiaPortugalIndonesiaGermanySwedenByzantiumThe IroquoisIndia
BrazilCultural
368​
PolandSwedenDenmarkBrazilJapanRomeThe ShoshoneByzantium
The ShoshoneDiplomatic
398​
IndonesiaByzantiumThe ShoshoneThe ZulusCarthageGreecePolandPolynesia
ArabiaCultural
352​
DenmarkEgyptArabiaIndonesiaMoroccoThe AztecsPolandSiam
The MayaCultural
387​
SonghaiVeniceBabylonThe MayaThe ShoshonePolynesiaBrazilThe Inca
GermanyCultural
356​
RussiaGermanyFranceThe ShoshonePortugalGreeceChinaThe Ottomans
The IncaScience
454​
JapanBabylonThe IncaThe IroquoisCarthageRomeEgyptThe Zulus
PortugalCultural
397​
EthiopiaThe HunsPortugalThe IroquoisSiamThe IncaByzantiumPoland
ArabiaCultural
380​
BrazilMongoliaSwedenCarthageGreeceArabiaRomeMorocco
MoroccoDiplomatic
378​
BabylonThe ShoshoneMoroccoMongoliaBrazilSiamIndiaRussia
KoreaCultural
372​
FranceRussiaKoreaSonghaiPortugalThe MayaAustriaBabylon
The AztecsDiplomatic
442​
The AztecsMoroccoRomeBrazilChinaDenmarkPolynesiaThe Iroquois
AmericaDiplomatic
429​
KoreaThe ZulusAmericaFranceVeniceCarthageAssyriaThe Netherlands
AustriaDiplomatic
366​
The ShoshoneEgyptThe ZulusIndonesiaThe MayaPortugalAustriaByzantium
ByzantiumCultural
446​
The HunsByzantiumThe IroquoisChinaPortugalSpainIndonesiaAustria
The MayaDiplomatic
409​
ArabiaThe MayaThe AztecsPolandFranceVeniceAmericaIndonesia
The MayaCultural
411​
The IncaThe IroquoisThe AztecsVeniceBrazilThe MayaPolandIndia
ChinaCultural
366​
The NetherlandsThe AztecsArabiaChinaPolandThe IncaThe ShoshoneFrance
GermanyDiplomatic
368​
MongoliaGreeceEgyptBrazilEnglandGermanyPersiaSpain
ChinaCultural
365​
VeniceChinaCarthageThe AztecsPolandSwedenThe NetherlandsBrazil
The IroquoisCultural
387​
VeniceEthiopiaMoroccoThe IroquoisEnglandByzantiumPolynesiaThe Netherlands
VeniceCultural
351​
PolandPolynesiaAmericaVeniceSiamThe HunsThe CeltsThe Shoshone
VeniceCultural
445​
VeniceAmericaDenmarkMoroccoGreeceIndonesiaThe NetherlandsThe Iroquois
VeniceDiplomatic
391​
The MayaChinaVeniceSwedenJapanDenmarkThe HunsRussia
JapanCultural
363​
JapanSiamThe NetherlandsGermanyThe AztecsEgyptSwedenIndonesia
GreeceScience
444​
SiamThe MayaMoroccoFranceByzantiumGreeceThe NetherlandsRussia
PolandCultural
405​
The CeltsKoreaIndiaMongoliaFranceDenmarkPersiaPoland
EnglandDiplomatic
409​
FranceByzantiumJapanThe ZulusMongoliaIndonesiaEnglandThe Netherlands
KoreaCultural
369​
BabylonFranceThe AztecsThe ZulusPortugalSwedenKoreaThe Shoshone
SiamDiplomatic
382​
The ZulusSpainAustriaIndonesiaFranceThe IncaSiamEthiopia
VeniceCultural
393​
The MayaKoreaSonghaiAustriaThe ZulusVeniceBabylonRome
The IroquoisTime
500​
PortugalArabiaAssyriaFranceThe ShoshonePolandPolynesiaThe Iroquois
BrazilCultural
395​
DenmarkRomeSwedenIndonesiaBrazilJapanThe MayaGermany
EnglandCultural
442​
EgyptIndiaThe MayaAssyriaKoreaJapanThe IroquoisEngland
BrazilCultural
360​
FranceCarthageVeniceMongoliaThe NetherlandsBrazilAssyriaThe Celts
The OttomansCultural
427​
RomeSonghaiAssyriaThe OttomansDenmarkThe CeltsBabylonPersia
ChinaCultural
383​
ChinaDenmarkEgyptRussiaThe IncaSpainPolynesiaPoland
GermanyCultural
370​
PersiaThe ShoshoneMongoliaThe NetherlandsKoreaSpainThe CeltsGermany
ArabiaCultural
370​
The MayaBabylonSpainThe IroquoisPolynesiaVeniceArabiaDenmark
The IncaTime
500​
The AztecsBrazilThe OttomansFranceCarthagePolynesiaPortugalThe Inca
EthiopiaCultural
405​
PortugalEgyptThe ShoshoneDenmarkChinaByzantiumAssyriaEthiopia
IndonesiaScience
476​
The NetherlandsMongoliaGreeceAmericaRussiaThe HunsSonghaiIndonesia
EgyptCultural
390​
SiamThe NetherlandsThe AztecsRomeEgyptSwedenSpainCarthage
PolandCultural
406​
IndiaMoroccoPolandRussiaEgyptIndonesiaThe IroquoisSweden
JapanCultural
427​
JapanBabylonThe IncaAmericaDenmarkThe IroquoisByzantiumThe Ottomans
EgyptCultural
313​
SpainSwedenEgyptFranceIndiaJapanThe NetherlandsDenmark
PersiaCultural
456​
The CeltsGermanyAssyriaPersiaRomeThe AztecsBabylonBrazil
ChinaCultural
383​
The AztecsCarthageThe IroquoisSwedenSiamRomeThe HunsChina
ArabiaCultural
394​
SiamIndiaIndonesiaFranceThe AztecsPortugalArabiaThe Iroquois
BrazilCultural
368​
MongoliaAmericaThe HunsRussiaByzantiumThe ShoshoneBrazilThe Ottomans
The AztecsDiplomatic
479​
PolynesiaFranceGreeceIndiaVeniceRussiaThe AztecsAmerica
IndiaCultural
427​
IndiaSpainThe AztecsGermanyAustriaCarthageRomeMongolia
KoreaCultural
368​
KoreaMongoliaThe ShoshonePolandIndiaGreeceThe NetherlandsPersia
ArabiaCultural
418​
CarthageEgyptDenmarkPolynesiaSwedenRomeMoroccoArabia
SiamDiplomatic
365​
RomeAmericaThe OttomansThe HunsBabylonThe CeltsSiamPoland
JapanScience
456​
JapanThe ZulusMongoliaEgyptArabiaIndonesiaByzantiumDenmark
CarthageDiplomatic
371​
BrazilFranceAmericaPersiaCarthageThe HunsDenmarkBabylon
ChinaCultural
491​
DenmarkBrazilAssyriaChinaPortugalEthiopiaSonghaiByzantium
PolynesiaDiplomatic
395​
SwedenIndiaPolandSiamRussiaByzantiumThe OttomansPolynesia
GreeceDiplomatic
417​
The MayaGreeceSiamBrazilThe HunsThe CeltsVeniceCarthage
VeniceCultural
363​
ArabiaThe AztecsVenicePortugalPolandThe ZulusAmericaThe Netherlands
BabylonCultural
344​
BabylonEthiopiaPortugalMoroccoKoreaPolandThe ZulusFrance
MoroccoCultural
387​
PortugalMoroccoThe HunsThe IncaThe ZulusKoreaDenmarkPersia
GermanyScience
474​
JapanEnglandThe CeltsThe ShoshoneIndiaGermanyAssyriaMorocco
PolandCultural
330​
IndiaPolandSonghaiThe CeltsEgyptAustriaPolynesiaRome
PersiaCultural
357​
RussiaMongoliaThe ZulusBabylonSonghaiThe IroquoisPersiaKorea
ByzantiumCultural
368​
The AztecsMongoliaByzantiumAssyriaPolynesiaThe HunsAustriaThe Iroquois
BabylonDiplomatic
341​
IndonesiaPersiaBabylonFrancePolandIndiaEgyptPortugal
ArabiaCultural
362​
ArabiaThe MayaThe AztecsThe CeltsBabylonChinaByzantiumIndonesia
The ZulusDiplomatic
466​
The CeltsThe ZulusCarthageGreeceArabiaPortugalGermanyPersia
GreeceDiplomatic
402​
IndonesiaIndiaGreeceAssyriaSwedenSpainThe IroquoisThe Shoshone
VeniceCultural
359​
VeniceMoroccoPortugalEnglandFranceCarthageSwedenIndonesia
JapanCultural
367​
JapanEthiopiaGreeceThe NetherlandsThe HunsGermanyCarthageAmerica
FranceCultural
392​
MongoliaBabylonByzantiumThe MayaMoroccoSwedenJapanFrance
DenmarkDiplomatic
402​
EgyptByzantiumDenmarkIndiaThe AztecsGermanyMongoliaFrance
JapanCultural
392​
SpainJapanCarthagePolandBrazilPolynesiaEnglandIndonesia
GreeceDiplomatic
414​
The HunsRussiaAssyriaCarthageJapanPolandMoroccoGreece
MoroccoDiplomatic
391​
BrazilMoroccoRomeThe IncaFranceEthiopiaThe IroquoisDenmark
SonghaiDiplomatic
401​
PersiaByzantiumChinaBabylonSonghaiPortugalAssyriaEgypt
KoreaCultural
396​
ArabiaMongoliaBrazilAmericaSwedenKoreaThe IncaThe Maya
The NetherlandsDiplomatic
363​
KoreaGreeceThe HunsGermanyJapanFranceBabylonThe Netherlands
IndiaCultural
401​
The AztecsSwedenSpainBrazilCarthageThe IroquoisIndiaDenmark
ArabiaCultural
441​
AssyriaBabylonChinaThe AztecsThe OttomansCarthageThe MayaArabia
MoroccoDiplomatic
360​
BabylonThe AztecsPortugalMoroccoBrazilSiamAmericaThe Iroquois
KoreaDiplomatic
385​
PolynesiaAustriaSwedenCarthageDenmarkThe MayaThe OttomansKorea
ArabiaCultural
452​
ArabiaSpainBrazilThe MayaRussiaThe ShoshoneVenicePortugal
The NetherlandsDiplomatic
377​
PersiaThe NetherlandsGreeceArabiaRussiaAssyriaThe ZulusRome
IndiaCultural
379​
The AztecsThe IncaIndiaFranceCarthageThe IroquoisByzantiumPortugal
GermanyDiplomatic
388​
The OttomansBrazilEthiopiaArabiaGermanyCarthageDenmarkRome
AustriaDiplomatic
463​
EnglandChinaByzantiumEthiopiaCarthageMongoliaThe ZulusAustria
MoroccoCultural
411​
AmericaThe CeltsEgyptMoroccoPolynesiaByzantiumJapanGreece
The CeltsCultural
352​
The CeltsCarthageThe MayaThe IncaThe OttomansPolandThe NetherlandsSonghai
RomeTime
500​
MoroccoRomeEnglandSpainDenmarkThe NetherlandsThe OttomansThe Iroquois
IndonesiaDiplomatic
394​
SiamGermanyIndonesiaGreeceVeniceByzantiumThe ShoshonePoland
SiamCultural
401​
IndiaBabylonGermanySiamSpainByzantiumFranceThe Shoshone
IndonesiaCultural
398​
The ShoshoneGreeceSwedenThe IncaThe HunsDenmarkIndonesiaSpain
EgyptCultural
406​
The CeltsPolandMoroccoEgyptIndiaDenmarkGreeceThe Shoshone
EgyptTime
500​
The MayaEgyptGermanyMoroccoVeniceMongoliaJapanPortugal
The HunsTime
500​
The HunsSiamAmericaThe IncaMoroccoEthiopiaChinaIndia
PortugalCultural
442​
VeniceThe NetherlandsMoroccoRomeAmericaChinaSiamPortugal
ArabiaCultural
409​
RomeAmericaThe CeltsThe ZulusArabiaBabylonThe IroquoisThe Huns
IndiaCultural
437​
DenmarkEnglandJapanFrancePolynesiaIndiaMoroccoThe Celts
ArabiaCultural
379​
The AztecsFranceThe IncaSonghaiArabiaThe ZulusCarthageBabylon
SiamScience
465​
EthiopiaSiamThe AztecsGermanyIndiaThe HunsRomeDenmark
IndiaDiplomatic
347​
MoroccoPersiaChinaKoreaThe NetherlandsSpainIndonesiaIndia
PortugalCultural
469​
SonghaiRomeEnglandPortugalThe IncaEgyptThe IroquoisRussia
EthiopiaCultural
377​
PolandRussiaMongoliaThe OttomansIndiaEthiopiaGermanyDenmark
IndiaCultural
354​
JapanMoroccoBrazilSonghaiIndiaPolynesiaThe AztecsVenice
The NetherlandsDiplomatic
355​
AmericaThe CeltsPolynesiaThe AztecsMoroccoIndiaCarthageThe Netherlands
PolandCultural
396​
The CeltsAssyriaGreecePolandDenmarkFranceThe NetherlandsEngland
MoroccoScience
412​
IndonesiaDenmarkVeniceAssyriaThe OttomansPolandMoroccoEngland
The NetherlandsDiplomatic
389​
ByzantiumThe IncaThe HunsPersiaThe NetherlandsVeniceRussiaPortugal
EgyptScience
441​
ByzantiumThe IroquoisRussiaSiamGermanyGreeceEgyptCarthage
PolynesiaCultural
412​
The ZulusPortugalFranceSiamPolynesiaAmericaKoreaSonghai
ByzantiumDiplomatic
401​
GermanyRomeVeniceThe NetherlandsJapanGreeceIndonesiaByzantium
The MayaScience
434​
SonghaiKoreaBabylonThe MayaThe OttomansThe ZulusChinaEthiopia
EgyptCultural
407​
GreeceThe ShoshoneMongoliaThe CeltsPolynesiaGermanyThe AztecsEgypt
The NetherlandsDiplomatic
389​
PolynesiaThe MayaAmericaMoroccoKoreaJapanRussiaThe Netherlands
PolandCultural
361​
BabylonBrazilFranceCarthageMongoliaArabiaPolandGreece
The AztecsDiplomatic
404​
The AztecsRussiaThe ShoshoneSonghaiThe CeltsMongoliaAssyriaPolynesia
SiamDiplomatic
426​
The AztecsJapanEnglandAmericaCarthageSiamBrazilPolynesia
VeniceCultural
333​
The CeltsSpainThe NetherlandsThe AztecsBrazilThe ZulusVeniceRussia
VeniceCultural
427​
AmericaMoroccoVeniceByzantiumGreeceDenmarkThe CeltsEgypt
CarthageScience
450​
GreeceCarthageRussiaSpainAmericaAssyriaChinaThe Netherlands
The IroquoisTime
500​
JapanDenmarkGreeceChinaGermanySiamThe IroquoisEthiopia
PersiaCultural
424​
The CeltsAmericaThe OttomansPersiaThe ZulusThe HunsCarthageSweden
ChinaDiplomatic
419​
ChinaAssyriaPortugalRussiaThe ZulusFranceThe ShoshoneThe Inca
AustriaDiplomatic
425​
The NetherlandsDenmarkThe IncaArabiaThe ShoshoneThe AztecsAustriaPortugal
RussiaScience
445​
The ZulusJapanAssyriaPolynesiaThe MayaThe IncaIndiaRussia
AustriaDiplomatic
390​
SwedenGreeceIndonesiaThe IncaAustriaPolynesiaSpainBrazil
AssyriaDiplomatic
400​
RussiaArabiaAustriaGermanyThe IroquoisThe ZulusPortugalAssyria
The AztecsTime
500​
The NetherlandsCarthageThe ZulusThe AztecsSwedenFranceKoreaThe Maya
The MayaDiplomatic
393​
The MayaEnglandCarthageSiamMoroccoThe AztecsGermanyIndonesia
SiamDiplomatic
440​
MoroccoThe MayaSwedenChinaBrazilVeniceThe HunsSiam
GermanyCultural
391​
FranceGermanyAustriaThe ShoshoneDenmarkJapanPersiaSweden
GermanyCultural
447​
SwedenFranceRomeBabylonGermanyGreeceThe ZulusThe Maya
The MayaCultural
363​
The MayaThe ZulusPersiaThe HunsSpainEnglandVeniceEgypt
GermanyCultural
375​
GermanyGreecePolandIndonesiaRussiaThe IroquoisIndiaThe Aztecs
EthiopiaCultural
403​
The IroquoisBabylonMongoliaSonghaiThe IncaEthiopiaSiamSweden
GermanyDiplomatic
372​
PolynesiaAssyriaThe MayaKoreaPortugalGreeceJapanGermany
GermanyCultural
325​
FranceJapanGreeceGermanySpainThe IncaThe NetherlandsAmerica
The MayaCultural
354​
The CeltsEthiopiaDenmarkAmericaSpainBabylonRussiaThe Maya
SiamDiplomatic
371​
The HunsThe NetherlandsEgyptThe AztecsBrazilVeniceSiamPolynesia
The MayaCultural
363​
The IroquoisThe MayaThe ZulusArabiaThe ShoshoneDenmarkThe CeltsIndia


Spoiler Technology Research Times :

1666567641504.png

 

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pineappledan

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Messages
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Alberta, Canada
So what you’re telling me is that the game is More Balanced with 4UC and the tech times work better, ie. like they were supposed to. This is hilarious
 
Last edited:

pineappledan

Deity
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Messages
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Alberta, Canada
Here's a quick thing I did to compare how civs did in the base game tests vs the 4UC test games:
Spoiler :

1666577823489.png

 

nekokon

Prince
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
448
Let's be honest, you can never improve AI enough so that it can win DomV as frequently as other victory types if the condition is kept as is. It's the only victory condition that requires you to have an empire stronger than the rest of the world combined, compared to all other victory types which are already achievable when you're roughly around the same score as the runner up. It's a screwed condition that was made solely for human player from the start.
 

CppMaster

Deity
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
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Location
Poland
Let's be honest, you can never improve AI enough so that it can win DomV as frequently as other victory types if the condition is kept as is. It's the only victory condition that requires you to have an empire stronger than the rest of the world combined, compared to all other victory types which are already achievable when you're roughly around the same score as the runner up. It's a screwed condition that was made solely for human player from the start.
That's correct. to me Domination Victory is like opposite to Time Victory, while all other victories are valid and one of them is expected to occur. Time victory happens when just when no other victory occurred, but it's very rare. Domination victory happens when one of the civs dominate an entire world very much, which is very rare for AI.

Crazy idea: How about merging Cultural and Domination Victories into one? So you would win if you control all capitals or you don't own a capital, but the civ is your vassal or you're influential with the civ. That would require nerfning tourism sources, so it's not too easy. That would enable AI to win by domination (either cultural or military).
 

youngsteve

Prince
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
568
Location
England
The fact time victories are only 5.6% tells me other types of victory like Culture & Diplomatic come far to early.
 

Legen

Emperor
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Sep 13, 2015
Messages
1,224
It could be that most AIs have an easy time defending. Militaristic AIs may be struggling to to conquer fast enough against endless waves of units defending a city. If that's indeed the case, the proposal that reworks AI difficulty may alleviate that, as that includes changes to production on triggers.
 

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
9,742
So you would win if you control all capitals or you don't own a capital, but the civ is your vassal or you're influential with the civ.
In practical terms, this already happens now. Most of the time if I take a high culture civs capital, its culture output plummets, and I can overtake it with tourism. In fact people have often complained that when they are going for DomV, they feel like they can just pick up a quicker CV instead, for precisely this reason.
 

CppMaster

Deity
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Messages
2,213
Location
Poland
In practical terms, this already happens now. Most of the time if I take a high culture civs capital, its culture output plummets, and I can overtake it with tourism. In fact people have often complained that when they are going for DomV, they feel like they can just pick up a quicker CV instead, for precisely this reason.
Yes, that's my experience too, hence:
"That would require nerfning tourism sources, so it's not too easy."
 

ma_kuh

Prince
Joined
Sep 13, 2022
Messages
345
I still don't think DomV ever needs to be as common as the other three victory types. Military might is a tool, and sometimes the easiest path is capturing everyone's capitol, but more often getting ahead through combat serves to promote your other interest, it's not a big deal if conquering half of the world leads to a DiploV before you conquer the second half of the world for example.

I do, however, feel like Time victories are probably DomV that are just getting strung along (maybe it's two warmongers in the end-game that are truly evenly matched? maybe they've kneecapped their competitors but can't close out the game), and there might be room for later-scaling combat tricks that help break stalemates or allow DomV-aspirants to push a little faster. I don't think this should be solved by a rules change for DomV, I think they should get better tools for pushing (I think the talk about missile improvements or more access to semi-elite promos like Splash are a good direction for this).
 

nekokon

Prince
Joined
Aug 9, 2017
Messages
448
Combat in this game is too complex for the AI to do some human-like maneuvers and the only thing they can do is duke it out against each other. Changing the rule is the only viable method.

And to reiterate again, making AIs able to get DomV earlier isn't for the sake of actually make them win DomV, but to push human players into action to prevent the AIs from winning just like all other victory conditions, instead of just sit tight enjoying the free global diplomatic boost if there're such a warmonger in your game.

No dev seems to be interested in the idea though (previous proposal has no sponsor).
 

ma_kuh

Prince
Joined
Sep 13, 2022
Messages
345
I guess I just fundamentally disagree that the rules should say "you lose militarily" just because your neighbors can't hold out. If you're the one holding out, it shouldn't matter if it "feels like it's lost"; you can concede and give the AI the win, or tough it out. If the AI can't finish "games it is about to win anyway", that's a matter of conquest not happening fast enough.

On another note, thanks again @L. Vern for the great data! Every one of these sparks my inner data nerd, it's so fun playing with the numbers. I'm trying to calculate power rankings of each civ's wins over which competitors, but it's a lot of numbers. :D

Fun fact, only about 52% of wins are before turn 400, despite concerns with culture winning too early. So that's cool.

Also I'm super excited to improve score evaluations, if only so we can properly assign #2-#4 placements. Other free-for-all style games (auto-battlers, e.g.) tend to give "wins" to top-4 contestants, or at least partial win credit over those who fell first. Of course those are pure-elimination, not by score... but I digress.
 

ma_kuh

Prince
Joined
Sep 13, 2022
Messages
345
In practical terms, this already happens now. Most of the time if I take a high culture civs capital, its culture output plummets, and I can overtake it with tourism. In fact people have often complained that when they are going for DomV, they feel like they can just pick up a quicker CV instead, for precisely this reason.
I've got it, the rule change should be:
"If you complete a Culture, Diplomacy, or Science Victory while owning more than 1/2 of the opponents' capitols, grant a Domination Victory instead."
 

L. Vern

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 5, 2022
Messages
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Location
Ontario, Canada
So what you’re telling me is that the game is More Balanced with 4UC and the tech times work better, ie. like they were supposed to. This is hilarious
I'm not sure about the tech times: they look fairly similar to base VP numbers. 4UC does look like it has a better diplo+cultural parity in terms of average time achieved though:
1666636286976.png
 

CrazyG

Deity
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Oct 14, 2016
Messages
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Location
Beijing
There are two very different things that could be happening here:

1. Warmongers are doing well but just not winning via domination
2. Warmongers are doing poorly overall and weren't really close to winning by any measure

My experiences tells me its probably the 2nd and tweaking the rules for a domination victory won't affect it much. I also noticed another trend for warmongers that I'll share an anecdote about:

Spoiler A Story :

In my time in VP I've only ever played 1 game where an AI got to close to winning by domination. It was Mongolia and he killed everyone except myself (Byzantium) and Egypt. Mongolia had 6 capital cities but was way behind in science. The game was stuck in eternal 3 way war, Egypt and I both tried to win by culture but weren't able to influence each other. There was only like 2 city states not conquered, so no one could possibly get enough votes to win by diplomacy (there was like 11 votes total between the 3 of us). I was pivoting towards a spaceship but it looked grim I could hold out long enough, once the Mongols had air units all I could do was stall with my smaller unit supply.

However, Egypt is also losing ground. And once the Egyptian cities start falling, I had a chance. Because I'm already influential over Mongolia in culture, when Genghis Khan takes Egypt's last city, I win.

That story above was a few years ago, but I'll say that I still think the core problem is tourism. Notably that a successful warmonger has a ton of cities and smaller empires with strong culture will devastate him with tourism. For a cultural victory to not happen you usually need 2 culturally strong civs to cancel each other out.
 

ma_kuh

Prince
Joined
Sep 13, 2022
Messages
345
Does that mean that warmongering needs more/stronger sources of culture for doing their thing (capturing cities, winning wars)? Or would reducing tourism from others be an option, and keep the current culture-balance?
 

pineappledan

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Alberta, Canada
Average win rate for all civs is, of course, 1/8, or 12.5%

What is interesting is that standard deviation from that winrate with base VP is 12.9%, while with 4UC, standard deviation is 10.3%.

Golden balance for win rates should be 12.5% for all civs of course, but let's give that a buffer of +/- 5.5% for easy math (7%-18%). That's about 1/2 of a std. dev.

In base VP there were 11 civs with winrates between 7%-18% (26% of the roster)
With 4UC, there were 15 civs with 7% to 18% win rates (35% of the roster)
 
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