(2-60) Ratification Option: Era-Scaling Free EXP For AI Units

[Flamingcheesepie]

Ratification Option for https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/1-05-difficulty-level-revamp-proposals.679952/

Currently, AI gets flat EXP bonuses as well as increased EXP from combat as a percent. The current formula is
Settler: 0/0
Chieftain: 0/0
Warlord: 0/0
Prince: 10/20%
King:15/40%
Emperor: 20/60%
Immortal: 25/80%
Deity: 30/100%

I don't think that this frontloaded bonus is as interesting, especially since AI is known to have low unit retention, and therefore not have highly leveled units into the lategame. Instead, currently without touching the extra % EXP from combat, I would like to suggest AI free exp scaling with era. It would skip the Ancient era and begin in Classical. Currently the numbers I have in mind are as follows, but they are up for debate:
Settler: 0/0
Chieftain: 0/0
Warlord: 0/0
Prince: 5/2 (19)
King: 10/2 (24)
Emperor: 10/3 (31)
Immortal: 15/3 (36)
Deity: 15/4 (43)

First number is flat EXP from the beginning of the game, second number is EXP per era, which only kicks in in the Classical era, and the third number in parenthesis is the total EXP AI will gain by the Information era.

This backloads AI combat bonuses, allowing smoother progression of power throughout the game.

Originally I did not want to adjust AI getting extra % EXP from combat, but the more I think about it, the more I would like to remove it. Obviously this would be a huge nerf, so the compensatory change would be
Prince: 5/2 (19)
King: 10/3 (31)
Emperor: 10/4 (38)
Immortal: 15/5 (50)
Deity: 15/6 (57)

You can see total available EXP per era in the attached excel sheet, though it ignores the Order and the Elite Forces tenet in Autocracy. For most relevant breakpoints, on Emperor Ranged units begin to have T4 promotions by the Modern era, while on Deity they can get to 99 EXP by Industrial. Of course, as Pineappledan pointed out, they lose a lot of free healing from promotions, so it might not be as straightforward a balance change as it seems. You can play around with the numbers in the excel sheet yourself - I have drawn a red box around the cells to adjust to see how the numbers change.

 

[AndreyK]

What is the meaning 5/2 (19) for example? I don't understand.

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

Sorry, it means that the AI gets 5 EXP base and then 2 EXP per era from Classical. The number in (parenthesis) is the total EXP they will gain at Information Era. I'll update the OP.

 

[rkkn]

this is xp for newly trained units?

either way, I support this idea. However, I would make the numbers bigger.
Looking at modern era... baseline XP for new units is 60 (15+20+25 from barracks+armory+academy), and it takes another 40 xp to get another promotion after that, so the proposed numbers are actually kinda small with that considered. Even deity only gets 35, which falls short.

 

[azum4roll]

You want all AI units start with Range or something?

 

[rkkn]

You want all AI units start with Range or something?

in the lategame on high difficulty settings, yes. absolutely

 

[balparmak]

I think it's a great idea in many ways, also allows the AI to be dangerous without needing carpets of doom.

 

[alchx]

AIs that get science from unique features will simply destroy all their neighbors before reaching the midgame

 

[rkkn]

AIs that get science from unique features will simply destroy all their neighbors before reaching the midgame

this proposal does not increase the early exp

 

[Stalker0]

this proposal does not increase the early exp

Yeah if anything this is actually a major nerf to the AI.

Most difficulty levels won't reach the same level of XP bonus they get now until Atomic, maybe modern in some cases. So this is a pretty massive nerf.

 

[rkkn]

Yeah if anything this is actually a major nerf to the AI.

Most difficulty levels won't reach the same level of XP bonus they get now until Atomic, maybe modern in some cases. So this is a pretty massive nerf.

indeed

I'd go for numbers that about reach parity with current at medieval at the latest and then scale up really big lategame.

 

[neo_arcadia]

I think it's a great idea in many ways, also allows the AI to be dangerous without needing carpets of doom.

Don't they currently have the carpet already? It will make the carpet becoming thicker I think

 

[Stalker0]

I think it's a great idea in many ways, also allows the AI to be dangerous without needing carpets of doom.

Again I think people are misreading the numbers. This is not a buff to the AI, its a nerf. The AI's warring will be weaker under this version, not stronger.

 

[balparmak]

Yes it ends up as a nerf with the current numbers, but that's easy to tweak, actually you're probably the best person to crunch the numbers . I still think the underlying mechanic can help the AI at late-game, and less front-loading is always good.

 

[pineappledan]

This will decrease the amount of free healing the AI gets during combat, so this will favour humans. Removing the % bonus from combat means the AI will level up less in combat meaning their units will be less likely to gain promotions and get the free heal. I think we should be careful.

 

[Stalker0]

Yes it ends up as a nerf with the current numbers, but that's easy to tweak, actually you're probably the best person to crunch the numbers .

The problem is...I'm not sure what you are looking for here? Do you want the AI to overall be "stronger", "weaker"? What is the goal of this change?

 

[Flamingcheesepie]

I've updated the OP with slightly more information, as well as an excel sheet to play around with to discuss T4 promotion timing for AI.

 

[glaivemaster]

I feel like the only player who doesn't have an entire army of Logistics, Range, Indirect Fire units by modern, so I'm not sure I'm enjoying the concept of the AI having T4 units by then, which would far outmatch anything I usually have, as well as having more of them. Especially since this proposal doesn't seem to touch the carpet effect whereby the AI just has such unit production that they'll not only have the T4 promotions (in Modern for me, on Emperor) but a heck of a lot of them.

I actually see the warmonger AI getting plenty of those T4 promotions already anyway, and they're the ones who should. Presumably that's partly a benefit of the bonus combat XP that this proposal removes, replacing it with the ability for peaceful AI to have units just as strong as warmonger AI, which doesn't feel right to me either.

Overall not a fan. Combat probably does need to change, but as a player who already finds it a drag (and a bit difficult, honestly, I'm bad at combat) I don't think this is the way.

 

[Recursive]

I sponsor this.

Proposal sponsored by Recursive.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.