(5-WD) Proposal: Delay Brazil's UA yield conversion to Renaissance Era

[Legen]

Spoiler AI handicaps :

From Recursive's 1-05 proposal:

Difficulty Setting	What does it do?	Settler	Chieftain	Warlord	Prince	King	Emperor	Immortal	Deity
AIStartingDefenseUnits	Extra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start	0	0	0	1	1	1	1	1
StartingMinorDefenseUnits	Extra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start for City-States	0	0	1	1	2	2	3	3
AIWorkRateModifier	Workers complete improvements x% faster	+0%	+0%	+0%	+25%	+35%	+50%	+60%	+70%
AIUnhappinessPercent	% modifier to Unhappiness from Needs	+10%	+5%	-0%	-0%	-0%	-0%	-0%	-0%
AIUnitCostPercent	Discount on unit maintenance	100%	100%	100%	90%	85%	80%	75%	70%
AIBuildingCostPercent	Discount on building maintenance	100%	100%	100%	90%	85%	80%	75%	70%
AIUnitUpgradePercent	Discount on unit upgrade cost	100%	100%	100%	90%	80%	70%	60%	50%
AITrainPercent	Modifier to combat unit production cost	110%	105%	100%	90%	85%	80%	75%	70%
AIConstructPercent	Modifier to building production cost	110%	105%	100%	90%	85%	80%	75%	70%
AIPerEraModifier	Additional reduction to building and combat unit production costs (multiplicative) for each game era that passes	-0%	-0%	-0%	-4%	-6%	-8%	-9%	-10%
AICivilianPercent (new)	Modifier to production cost for non-combat units	110%	105%	100%	100%	100%	100%	100%	100%
AICreatePercent AIWorldCreatePercent AIWorldConstructPercent	Modifiers to production cost for Projects, World Wonders and World Congress Projects	110%	105%	100%	100%	100%	100%	100%	100%
AIFreeXP	Free XP given to units (except starting pathfinder), scaling with game speed	0	0	0	10	15	20	25	30
AIFreeXPPercent	% increase to XP gain from combat	+0%	+0%	+0%	+20%	+40%	+60%	+80%	+100%
VisionBonus	Extra sight for AI units (except scouting and trade units) in # of tiles	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	2
AIResistanceCap (new)	Maximum anti-warmonger fervor AGAINST the AI	64%	48%	32%	40%	50%	50%	50%	50%
AIBarbarianBonus	AI Bonus VS Barbarians	0%	10%	20%	20%	25%	25%	30%	30%
DifficultyBonusBase	See AI Periodic Yield Bonuses, below	0	0	0	4	7	10	12	14
DifficultyBonusA	See below	0	0	0	320	335	350	360	375
DifficultyBonusB	See below	0	0	0	190	210	230	240	260
DifficultyBonusC	See below	0	0	0	100	123	145	160	180

Note on AIUnitUpgradePercent
- Currently, this bonus is applied to the unit upgrade cost after it is reduced by AITrainPercent and AIPerEraModifier, which is double-dipping that trivializes unit upgrade costs. As part of this proposal, I will change unit upgrade costs to be based on the unit's base production cost, not its cost reduced by difficulty. To offset this, the bonus has been increased a bit on higher difficulties. AI will actually have to spend Gold to upgrade units now.

AI Periodic Yield Bonuses
The amount of yields gained on difficulties above Warlord is calculated as follows:

Yield Bonus = DifficultyBonusBase * (DifficultyBonusA + (DifficultyBonusB * Era) + (DifficultyBonusC * Era * Era)) / 100 (rounded down)
Era = current game (average) era, counting Ancient and Classical as era #1, Medieval as era #2, etc.

The types of yields granted for each trigger are as follows (no Production bonus anymore, Food yield is divided amongst all of the AI's cities):

• Enters a new era (3x normal bonus; Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
• Founds its original capital (Gold, Golden Age Points)
• Founds a new city, other than its capital (Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
• Wins a war (warscore 25+) (Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
• Starts a Golden Age (Food, Gold, Science, Culture)
• Constructs a World Wonder (Gold, Golden Age Points)
• Generates a Great Person (Gold, Golden Age Points)
• Completes an antiquity site dig by building a Landmark or extracting an artifact (Gold)
• Completes a trade route to another civilization or City-State (Gold)

The yield total is multiplied by InstantYieldPercent and divided by 100. InstantYieldPercent is 50 on Quick speed, 100 on Standard, 150 on Epic, and 200 on Marathon.

Spoiler Brazil's UA :

UA: Carnival
"We Love the King Day" become Carnivals, adding -50% Unhappiness from Needs. When a Golden Age begins, 30% of Golden Age Points convert into Gold and Tourism, and Cities gain 10 turns of Carnival.

Proposal

• Brazil's UA only converts GAP into Gold and Tourism starting at Renaissance Era.

Spoiler How the UA would look like :

UA: Carnival
"We Love the King Day" become Carnival, adding -50% Unhappiness from Needs. When a Golden Age begins, 30% of its cost converts into Gold and Tourism (starting at Renaissance), and Cities gain 10 turns of Carnival.

Rationale

This proposal mainly aims to prevent AI Brazil from using the GAP from handicaps as a mini version of Carthage's and Arabia's UAs. As it is, the GAP they get from founding cities (among other sources) translates into some early gold due to their UA. The extra gold in Ancient/Classical eras from handicaps per difficulty is as follows:

	Prince	King	Emperor	Immortal	Deity
Normal yields from handicap	24	46	72	91	114
Additional Gold from UA conversion	7	14	21	27	34

While minor for Prince and King, it is enough to raise the effective gold from handicaps in Emperor and above to as if Brazil were one difficulty higher. This can make AI Pedro partially feel like its playing at a higher difficulty relative to other AIs, and in a way that isn't reflective to how the civ performs in human hands. Having it delayed to a later era should be enough to address this.

The choice for Renaissance Era is due to two reasons: the country's history and relative parity between Pangea and Continent maps. Brazil's official history starts at year 1500, when the Portuguese first spotted its lands. This places their history's start at Renaissance Era, which the UA can reference. The second reason is due to Renaissance being the era when all civs tend to be met and tourism starts affecting everyone, instead of roughly half the civs in Continent-type maps. Having Brazil start converting GAP into tourism at this era puts their performance between these two types of map at a closer parity.

 

[azum4roll]

It simply feels bad if you get a Golden Age right before Renaissance. It's normally a good thing to get GAs ASAP, but with this you want to delay it.

It's better to have a look at the AI yields again. Are the GAP really needed there?

 

[rkkn]

I have never played Brazil, but this just sounds straight up un-fun.

It's better to have a look at the AI yields again. Are the GAP really needed there?

Hm, indeed. GAP is a non-essential yield but can skew balance in obscure ways, so I think it should indeed be removed entirely from the AI's free bonuses.
If necessary, perhaps increase the others marginally to compensate.

 

[pineappledan]

Doesn't delaying the first few GAs, something that has already been proposed and has been asked for as a general critique -- ie. without special concern for Brazil -- go partway to addressing this already?

This seems unnecessary.

 

[Legen]

It can be unfun indeed, though the first two golden ages with them tend to be underwhelming in human hands, as the GA cost is still quite low. You usually get your second or third GA by Renaissance (assuming no Notre Dame), and Brazil has incentive to reach that era quickly anyways due to the many valuable cultural wonders there, like the Globe Theater ( GAP from cultural specialists). Of what I played with Brazil, this delay is relatively minor in terms of how it should impact fun.

That said, I'd be in favor of a revision of AI handicaps regarding free GAP yields.

Doesn't delaying the first few GAs, something that has already been proposed and has been asked for as a general critique -- ie. without special concern for Brazil -- go most of the way to addressing this already?

This seems unnecessary.

I suspect not. The AI has an easier time accumulating early GAP and should be able to overcome those proposed adjustments, especially at high difficulties. I don't think a 1000 GAP cost would delay their first GA to Medieval Era or later, especially since reaching Classical triggers a tripled instant yield boom for them that also includes GAP.

 

[pineappledan]

maybe not delay it super far back, but enough to make a change like this feel less necessary.

Also, I'd be in support of going after GAPs in the handicaps, or at least reducing their use across the board. Those are both things I would try before making arbitrary era locks on UA abilities.

 

[Legen]

While I'd like GAP to be removed from AI handicaps, I caution you that the rate at which the AI accumulates GAP affects their performance. The handicaps include an injection of yields whenever a Golden Age starts; reducing how often the AI triggers it is bound to lower all difficulties by more than just depriving them of near permanent GAs.

I actually considered removing GAP before, but I had no confidence in what values would compensate for the AI's losses regarding that trigger. This is a warning not just regarding this proposal and a potential GAP removal from AI handicaps, but also to the many proposals trying to lower GAP sources across the board.

 

[rkkn]

if the GAP handicaps are actually providing large amounts of the other yields, then that's even more reason for it to be removed. Put those bonuses in the other yields directly, so that we get more clarity in what the handicap bonuses are doing.

 

[Legen]

if the GAP handicaps are actually providing large amounts of the other yields, then that's even more reason for it to be removed. Put those bonuses in the other yields directly, so that we get more clarity in what the handicap bonuses are doing.

That's a good point. I'll make a proposal for that then.

@Stalker0, @axatin, @Hinin I'd like to withdrawal this proposal. I intent to propose something whose rationale would conflict with this one.

 

[axatin]

Proposal withdrawn by request

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.