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3.17 - is it harder?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by FenrysWulf, Oct 26, 2008.

  1. FenrysWulf

    FenrysWulf Evil Norse Wolf

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    I recently got a new computer and when I reinstalled Civ I upgraded to version 3.17 which I never did before. Every game I've started since I haven't been able to get ahead. In my last game I was ranked about 7th when normally I'd almost never be below 2nd. And other civs were getting liberalism before I got education. I get liberalism probably 9 out of every 10 games because I make it a priority. I'm only playing on noble and playing the same way I always did, but it's not working. The only other answer I can figure is I had modded my game before, but I think all I did was adjust game speed attributes so I don't see why that should affect this. Thoughts?
     
  2. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Warlords to BtS is a big jump in difficulty, but I didn't notice a change with any of the patches.
     
  3. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    I think it was the other way round, warlords was harder than BtS. The AI dont REX as much and delay liberalism.
     
  4. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    No, its the way I said.
     
  5. ParadigmShifter

    ParadigmShifter Random Nonsense Generator

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    Emperor level seems a lot easier on BtS.
     
  6. FenrysWulf

    FenrysWulf Evil Norse Wolf

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    I can't really pinpoint anything the AI is doing differently, but they just seem to be building a lot more wonders and to be researching technology at a quicker pace than they ever did. Also, it seems like it's taking me longer to build everything. I'll build a city in what I think is a good spot and it will take forever to build anything.
     
  7. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Well, that's your opinion. However, I can assure you that many people on these boards (like paradigmshifter) believe otherwise.
     
  8. BigRoy04

    BigRoy04 Chieftain

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    It's a lot more difficult from 3.13 to 3.17. I have had many games on Monarch where the AI is launching the Apollo Program in the early 1800's, this never happened on the 3.13 patch at this level. I have also noticed that AI capital cities now appear only several squares away from you. I had a recent game where there was me and 3 other AI all within 3 squares of each other. This obviously requires an Axe rush just to get more than 3 ciites - problem no copper or iron, just horses. None of this stuff happened in my experience on 3.13 and required a complete change of strategy.

    On the upside - the AI does not prioritise Infantry or Tanks - so if you tech right you can be fighting Bows and Gren's/Rifles with Infantry. This release requires much more waring from my point of view. Knock off one civ as early as possible and then beeline rifles and infantry.
     
  9. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Chariot rush.
     
  10. BigRoy04

    BigRoy04 Chieftain

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    LOL - yes that was the only possiblity (i'm not stupid) but you need a lot of them just to take down one city - all they need is spears and you're wasting your time. Did I mention that they had copper and iron.
     
  11. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    Yeah, I suppose you'd have to decide early on to do the rush in order to make it on time. By the time you would find out there's no iron, it'd pretty much be too late. :king:
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    There's some variance in the bonuses and AI approach, and it favors certain playstyles.

    Vanilla AIs REX'd more (and behind you) but had a lower chance of building units! They had greater bonuses on the higher levels but were therefore more vulnerable to early rush/acquisitions of land.

    BTS flips this a little bit - AIs spam more units and hold better, and are also better at pursuing victories (though still not great). However, top levels don't get the same bonuses vanilla got.

    What this tends to mean is that levels monarch and below are considerably harder in BTS than vanilla, because the AI makes more units and plays better in general. However, seasoned players used to working the AIs at high difficulties now get matched up to opposition they still outplay badly, but with less bonuses, which is why Snaaty says that immortal/deity are easier on BTS than vanilla.

    Of course, this is all still opinion. Players who are excessively skilled at early warfare probably find even high levels easier on vanilla, because they can just spam troops and take enough land for 15 cities in the early goings, which is much harder to do in BTS.

    Edit: 3.17 makes barb galleys about four times as likely I think. So, if you're isolated be prepared.
     
  13. Rusty Edge

    Rusty Edge Deity

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    That's enlightening. I only patched to 3.17 after the mod I play upgraded, so I didn't know what was the root cause.

    I seemed to have lost my knack for the game, and some of the A.I.s were struggling , too. I tried going down a level. I tried playing as Rome. I tried playing as my favorite, Hannibal. The only time I didn't have my seafood pillaged by a black galley task force even before my neighbors or I had sailing was when I had a "Hudson Bay-type " start. I guess they couldn't find their way in through it's icey mouth.

    So instead of seafood being a windfall that facillitated early growth and prospertity, it proved to be a drain on production building workboats and galleys to replace the constant losses. By the time I've gained control of my coasts, I'm backward as the seafaring A.I.s, and behind to the point that several A.I.s can bulley me. Not Fun.

    Before my current game, I swithched the xml from 500 squares per barb galley to 1250, and it seems to have changed everything for the better. I might experiment with 1000 next game.
     
  14. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I complained about it a lot before and I still think it lacks balance on emp+ because it screws civs in a weak position (isolation), but if you REX fast and fogbust the counts drop a lot. Viable on most maps, although the foundation of earlygame expansion basics has to be at a very high level to make them non-factor...I manage SOMETIMES ;).
     
  15. FenrysWulf

    FenrysWulf Evil Norse Wolf

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    What some of the people have said here seems to conform to my experience. I have noticed the AI starting very close to me and I hate that because I prefer to peacefully expand for awhile. Also, the AI is declaring war on me early when I'm still trying to focus on city growth and building basic improvements. Also, there was one game when I thought I was doing OK, and then three civs declared war on me the same turn, which has never happened before in all the games I've played. That ended that game. What I discovered is the only way I can still be competitive and play like I enjoy playing is to make my own map so I know I get a good starting location. Otherwise I'm always in the arctic or the desert or something. there seems to be a lot of desert squares now.
     

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