[Vote] (5-34) Golden Age Removal Series: Remove GAP From AI Difficulty Bonuses

Approval Vote for Proposal #34


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Legen

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Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented.

You can vote for both options, which is equivalent to saying "I'm fine either way", but adds to the required quorum of 25 votes in favor.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 5, Proposal 34



Spoiler AI handicaps :
From Recursive's 1-05 proposal:
Difficulty SettingWhat does it do?SettlerChieftainWarlordPrinceKingEmperorImmortalDeity
AIStartingDefenseUnitsExtra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start00011111
StartingMinorDefenseUnitsExtra Warriors (or era equivalent unit) at game start for City-States00112233
AIWorkRateModifierWorkers complete improvements x% faster+0%+0%+0%+25%+35%+50%+60%+70%
AIUnhappinessPercent% modifier to Unhappiness from Needs+10%+5%-0%-0%-0%-0%-0%-0%
AIUnitCostPercentDiscount on unit maintenance100%100%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIBuildingCostPercentDiscount on building maintenance100%100%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIUnitUpgradePercentDiscount on unit upgrade cost100%100%100%90%80%70%60%50%
AITrainPercentModifier to combat unit production cost110%105%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIConstructPercentModifier to building production cost110%105%100%90%85%80%75%70%
AIPerEraModifierAdditional reduction to building and combat unit production costs (multiplicative) for each game era that passes-0%-0%-0%-4%-6%-8%-9%-10%
AICivilianPercent (new)Modifier to production cost for non-combat units110%105%100%100%100%100%100%100%
AICreatePercent
AIWorldCreatePercent
AIWorldConstructPercent
Modifiers to production cost for Projects, World Wonders and World Congress Projects110%105%100%100%100%100%100%100%
AIFreeXPFree XP given to units (except starting pathfinder), scaling with game speed0001015202530
AIFreeXPPercent% increase to XP gain from combat+0%+0%+0%+20%+40%+60%+80%+100%
VisionBonusExtra sight for AI units (except scouting and trade units) in # of tiles00000012
AIResistanceCap (new)Maximum anti-warmonger fervor AGAINST the AI64%48%32%40%50%50%50%50%
AIBarbarianBonusAI Bonus VS Barbarians0%10%20%20%25%25%30%30%
DifficultyBonusBaseSee AI Periodic Yield Bonuses, below00047101214
DifficultyBonusASee below000320335350360375
DifficultyBonusBSee below000190210230240260
DifficultyBonusCSee below000100123145160180

AI Periodic Yield Bonuses
The amount of yields gained on difficulties above Warlord is calculated as follows:

Yield Bonus = DifficultyBonusBase * (DifficultyBonusA + (DifficultyBonusB * Era) + (DifficultyBonusC * Era * Era)) / 100 (rounded down)
Era = current game (average) era, counting Ancient and Classical as era #1, Medieval as era #2, etc.

The types of yields granted for each trigger are as follows (no Production bonus anymore, Food yield is divided amongst all of the AI's cities):
  • Enters a new era (3x normal bonus; Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
  • Founds its original capital (Gold, Golden Age Points)
  • Founds a new city, other than its capital (Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
  • Wins a war (warscore 25+) (Food, Gold, Golden Age Points, Science, Culture)
  • Starts a Golden Age (Food, Gold, Science, Culture)
  • Constructs a World Wonder (Gold, Golden Age Points)
  • Generates a Great Person (Gold, Golden Age Points)
  • Completes an antiquity site dig by building a Landmark or extracting an artifact (Gold)
  • Completes a trade route to another civilization or City-State (Gold)
The yield total is multiplied by InstantYieldPercent and divided by 100. InstantYieldPercent is 50 on Quick speed, 100 on Standard, 150 on Epic, and 200 on Marathon.


Proposal
  • Remove all :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points from the AI Periodic Yield Bonuses.

Rationale

This is an AI handicap adjustment intended to remove :c5goldenage: Golden Age Points as a special balance point for the AI. Right now, the AI has six triggers that grant them :c5goldenage: GAP, including founding cities ( :c5capital: Capital included), and an injection of :c5food::c5gold::c5science::c5culture: yields whenever they start a Golden Age. This means that :c5goldenage: GAP acts as an alternative source of those four yields that the AI already get from many of their other triggers; in their case, the :c5goldenage: GAP can be replaced for a direct increase on the :c5food::c5gold::c5science::c5culture: yields they already provide.

Of note is that two of those triggers (World Wonders and Great People) create an AI bias towards certain policies and playstyles, namely Artistry and civilizations that favor Great People generation (e.g. Austria, Japan), making them scale exceptionally well with higher difficulties. This is likely a factor on Artistry being the most commonly adopted Medieval policy tree by the AI, and is bound to affect all the other proposals in this congress regarding :c5goldenage: GAP sources. The abundance of :c5goldenage: GAP injections in so many triggers also affects the overall balance of :c5goldenage: GA oriented civs, as they can stay under the effects of their boosted GAs for longer under AI control. Brazil is a particularly notable case, in that they turn such :c5goldenage: GAP injections into a mini version of Carthage's UA; found a city, gets :c5gold: gold indirectly through their UA's :c5goldenage: GAP conversion.

It is hard to estimate a numerical impact for how much these :c5goldenage: GAP injections increase the AI's overall yields. For now, it may be better to observe the impact of the GAP removal before deciding if the AI needs compensation.


Amendment: Removed increases of A/B/C values. Rationale adjusted accordingly.
 
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I'll need to discriminate the increase between difficulties, the 20% is a starting point. Checking the current values now, we have injections as follows:

PrinceKingEmperorImmortalDeity
Normal yields from handicap (Ancient Era)24467291114
Increase relative to previous difficultyN/A91.67%56.52%26.39%25.27%

For now, I'm thinking of an increase as follows:

Prince: 15% or 20%
King: 10%
Immortal/Deity: 5%
 
GAPs are an indirect source of :c5culture: :c5production::c5gold:. I think replacement of GAPs should mainly be compensated with by increasing AIs’ free bonuses to those yield types
 
GAPs are an indirect source of :c5culture: :c5production::c5gold:. I think replacement of GAPs should mainly be compensated with by increasing AIs’ free bonuses to those yield types

AI already leans towards culture victories, so I don't think we need to try to mimic the effects of more AI golden age
 
Amendment: Adjusted the increase of A/B/C values from 20% on all difficulties to 15% Prince, 10% King and 5% on the rest.
 
I'll need to discriminate the increase between difficulties, the 20% is a starting point. Checking the current values now, we have injections as follows:

PrinceKingEmperorImmortalDeity
Normal yields from handicap (Ancient Era)24467291114
Increase relative to previous difficultyN/A91.67%56.52%26.39%25.27%

For now, I'm thinking of an increase as follows:

Prince: 15% or 20%
King: 10%
Immortal/Deity: 5%
Do you have new yield numbers like this?
 
It should be a 15%, 10%, 5% increase based on difficulty. I fixed one value that was used a wrong value (King's A value). The new yields from handicap per difficulty and era are as follows:

PrinceKingEmperorImmortalDeity
Ancient/Classical28517695119
Medieval5096146186237
Renaissance82160247317407
Industrial123242378488631
Modern173344540700907
Atomic2324657329521237
Information30160599512441619
 
Honestly this proposal seems so risky, messing with ABC has HUGE implications, I cannot stress that enough. It took a long time to settle difficulty levels with that.

I think we have to see how the GAP nerfs (if any) shake out first.
 
Would you prefer to simply remove the GAP without touching anything else then?
 
Would you prefer to simply remove the GAP without touching anything else then?
If your going to make a change, than yeah I would start there. And then if we all think the AI has gotten notably easier we can talk ABC changes.
 
Probably better. And even if we proceed to change something, it may be something else instead of the ABC values.
 
Amendment: Removed increases of A/B/C values. Rationale adjusted accordingly.
 
Sponsored.
 
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