[Vote] (6-06) CS Quest: Acquire City Quest Proposals

Approval Vote (select all options you'd be okay with)


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Stalker0

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(6-06) Acquire City Quest - Replace XP with Free Units​

Current reward: free XP to all owned units+city state influence.

Proposed changes:
1. Remove XP reward entirely and replace it by 2+(era/2) free units at the capital (standard training XP, affected by quest bonus modifiers, rounded down).
2. After a successful conquest quest against another civilization, you cannot get another conquest quest against the same civilization for the rest of the game.

Rationale: This quest gives way too much free XP (often 30+ free XP to every single unit, especially if you have bonus modifiers like pledge or statecraft). In my games it usually starts a snowballing after which I'm unstoppable, because it quickly gives tier 4 promotions (like +1 range siege units and infantry with overrun/march/etc), which are very strong in human hands. The situation is even worse for ranged/siege units, because it completely overshadows traditional combat XP gain. Even a single conquest quest gives a ton of free XP, but the problem is made even worse by the fact that quite often you immediately get another quest to capture another nearby city of the civ you're fighting, giving even more free XP.

(6-06a) Acquire City Quest - Global Pool XP Reward (Distributed Equally)​

CurrentProposedRationale
Conquer a City-State's XP Reward15-20 Global Experiences that can be multiplied and changed for variety. This is granted to all units.250-300 Global Experiences that can be multiplied and changed for variety. This is granted but divided to all units evenly in the army down to a minimum of 2 XP.The bigger your army, the weaker the XP reward is per unit. It is a buff if you have less than roughly 17-20 units, and a nerf if you have more than roughly 17-20 units.

(6-06b) Acquire City Quest - Era-Scaling Global Pool XP Reward (Distributed Equally)​

CurrentProposedRationale
Conquer a City-CS quest XP Reward15-20 Global Experience that can be multiplied and changed for variety. This is granted to all units.90-110 Global Experience, scaling with era, that can be multiplied and changed for variety. This is granted but divided to all units evenly in the army down to a minimum of 2 XP.Rewards smaller armies while still accounting for army growth throughout the game

Flat experience (Original Proposal or Engineer's counterproposal A as opposed to current) is doubly useful earlier in the game regardless of playstyle - you have less units, and need less XP per level-up at the levels your units will be. Taller empires will have less units than wide ones at any stage of the game, but unit count is a poor single lever for tweaking tall vs wide because it is muddied by universally increasing unit supply over the game.

(6-06c) Acquire City Quest - Grant XP Within City Borders​

For Capture a City City-State Quest:
Current value: 80 influence, 15-20 experience for all Units
Proposed value: 80 influence, 20-25 experience for all Units in the borders of the City that was conquered

Rationale: The current quest is a bit strong and also annoying because it often wakes Units that are garrisoned across your empire. It also makes little sense that Units far from the warfront are gaining experience as well. Instead, we should change it like the recent Patriotic War change where only Units in the borders of the conquered City are healed - though here they would gain experience. This removes the same weirdness where conquering a City across the map buffs Units everywhere, and also limits total experience granted. In comparison to the lump sum proposal for the capture quest, this decreases possible cheesiness, as well as removing the experience to Units far away strangeness.


(6-06d) Acquire City Quest - Grant XP Within 5 Tiles​


Proposal: Same values like in (6-6c) proposal, but instead of all Units in the borders of the City that was conquered, I would use all units in the radius of 5 tiles from the captured city (will gain the bonus).
Rationale: I agree with the idea of @Flamingcheesepie, but I think that all units within a radius should gain the bonus:
1. Some damaged units might not be inside the borders during capturing because they must heal. This would be unfair because they actively attacked the city (or blocked it);
2. Artillery units can attack city from wider area, so they must be included;
3. City borders might be not very expanded in the early game thus not many units will gain the bonus;

(6-06e) Acquire City Quest - Gain an Elite Unit with Bonus XP​

Proposal: The quest is redesigned.
  • It is now only generated by Military CS.
  • When you conquer the requested city, you immediately gain a military unit from the CS near your capital (a UU if this is available from that military CS, otherwise, the normal unit it would grant you for friend/ally status).
  • This military unit receives the maximum training XP for building a unit in your civ, the morale promotion, the march promotion, +25 HP, and +100 bonus XP.
  • Abilities that modify quest bonuses would adjust the bonus XP (aka +50% to quests would give you 150 XP). This does not effect the bonus HP granted.
Ex: A civ that has at least 1 city with Barracks/Armory/Military Academy and Bradenburg Gate normally would train a unit at 65 XP. Completing this quest will give you a unit starting with 65 + 100 = 165 XP (Level 6).

Rationale: Many of these proposals and counterprosals recognize that large scale XP grants can scale out of control. Counterproposal A also offers the idea of free units as an alternative.

This version is meant to offer the player a really "fun" unit, an "Elite Super Unit" that they can play around with various promotions. The unit is extremely strong compared to normal units but is balanced by being a single unit.


(6-06f) Acquire City Quest - Distribute XP in Different Ways based on the Manner the Quest is Completed​


Proposal:
Instead of constant XP to all units, only distribute from a constant pool of XP to some units.
Total XP reward is 150 base + 30 random, modified by the current trait and personality modifiers, not scaling with era.
If the city is captured, distribute the pool of XP equally to all units within radius 7 of the city, minimum 1 XP each.
If the city is purchased, distribute the pool of XP globally to all units, minimum 1 XP each.
If you heavy tribute the quest giver, distribute the pool of XP equally to all units that contributed to the "nearby" score, minimum 1 XP each.
Target city has additional requirements of needing to be founded/acquired for at least 10 turns, and has at least 6 population.
Influence reward is unchanged.

Rationale:
Radius 4 is the max range a non-air unit can have. I made it count up to the 7th ring since there can be units that helped in softening the enemy units, but not moving in for the city capture. Air units can also benefit from this if the airbase is close enough.
The other counterproposals didn't factor in the other ways to "complete" the quest. This fills in the holes.
"Bully relevant plots" for each CS is already calculated once per turn. This wouldn't cause performance issues and can still give every contributed unit its fair reward.
Currently CS can give a city that's trivial to capture. The additional requirements should be enough to stop a lone unit from waltzing in and taking the target city, becoming a super unit this way.

Note to sponsor:
Add a new parameter to CvMinorCivQuest:: DoRewards to pass in the city (can be the target city or the CS itself in case of heavy tribute). This is also needed for the some other counterproposals.
May need to add a new function that is mostly similar to TacticalAIHelpers::EstimateLocalUnitPower for the heavy tribute case.
 
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Original proposal: Sounds like you're supposed to keep heavy tributing to "reset" the quest and don't let it obsolete.

Proposal a/b: Everyone has some units they leave behind just for defense, or as garrison for Imperialism. These units get the XP too, which is wasted.

Proposal c/d: Encourages you to cram all your units inside range before taking the city. The reward is too good to not do so. For Proposal c, it also means you can't steal the city's territory if you want the rewards. Both proposals don't account for liquidating the quest via heavy tribute, or acquiring the city via trade.

Proposal e: Caroleans and Janissaries don't get extra March. AI has trouble utilizing one super unit well; they're better at unit spam.
 
I think e is a step in a good direction, and we can help the AI use it better with further proposals
 
I don't get why both a and d gets more votes than f.
 
I don't get why people want a superunit at all instead of XP on multple ones...
What if I'm at unit cap and simply do not want a new unit?
And if I get a unit type I don't want, because I do not specialize in it?
Cities are not captured by single units, but by a whole war machine that should benefit the conquest.
 
While I can agree that the quest is actually a tad too good (or too frequent), I think this will weaken again the Tall gameplay (since it's hard to level up your units when playing tall).

None of the proposals really appeal to me.
 
I don't want to need to care about which units are close to a city, in its area, or anything like that, when I'm capturing a city.
I don't want the huge disparity between 25xp on 10 units and 3xp on 100 units.

So for me, the only choices are Free Units (which I actually prefer), or Free Elite Unit.

If there had been something like "60xp on 4 units", chosen from across your army, that would have also gotten my vote, but I like the novelty of the unique units.
 
I don't want to need to care about which units are close to a city, in its area, or anything like that, when I'm capturing a city.
Which is why mine is a 7-tile radius, that's large enough to include every unit you bring to a war, while leaving retired units behind. Planes also get to benefit, unlike the c proposal.
 
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