(6-19a) God of War Restoration

[Legen]

Counterproposal to (6-29) God of War Production Nerf

Spoiler God of War stats :

Current God of War:
Gain Faith from killing military units equal to 175% of its Strength.
+2 Faith and +2 Production form Barracks.

Old God of War:
Gain Faith from killing military units equal to 225% of its Strength.
+10% Production towards military Units.
+10% increase in city Ranged Combat Strength.

Spoiler Authority's Militarism :

Militarism

• +1 Happiness and +2 Culture from Barracks.
• -15% Unit Maintenance.
• -50% Route Maintenance.

Proposal

• Change God of War to the following (changes underlined, additional changes from the old version in italics):
  • Gain Faith from killing military units equal to 225% of its Strength. +10% Production towards military Units. +2 Faith from Palace.

Rationale

The current God of War has an issue in that its bonuses to Barracks stack too well with Authority's Militarism. When both are picked, you get a building that generates +2 and +1 , making it extremely cost efficient way too early. As such, for anyone going Authority, it is hard to justify picking any other pantheon.

This proposal reverts God of War back to its old version, but replacing the old RCS bonus on cities with a relatively stable source of Faith. The original rationale for the God of War rework was that the pantheon relied too much on one source of intermittent Faith, back when barbarians were comparatively sparse. Now that barbarians are more prevalent, the old 225% on kill should be reliable enough on its own, and the Faith from Palace should give it the extra reliability it needed back then on worst case scenarios.

Restoring the old +10% Production towards military Units should make it more unique and interesting than the current generic yields on a building, and in line with comments requesting an effect around these lines.


Database Changes

 

[axatin]

Are you sure the old production bonus was applied to civilian units? UnitProductionModifier in the beliefs table only affects military units.

 

[Legen]

Are you sure the old production bonus was applied to civilian units? UnitProductionModifier in the beliefs table only affects military units.

That was my experience in an old Austria photojournal, when France with God of War got a +10% production towards spaceship parts (see entry #83 Deity of spaceships). Maybe it got fixed in the meanwhile, I assumed it didn't.

If it did, then all the better, and I can either drop that note from the proposal, or leave it as a clarification. I'll take some time later on to confirm how UnitProductionModifier behaves at the moment.

 

[Legen]

Just tested UnitProductionModifier, it is only applying to military units right now. It was indeed changed in the meanwhile, since I last saw it working on spaceship parts.

I edited the proposal's explanations that were referring to the old God of War applying to non-military units. The proposal itself is unchanged, so it doesn't seem to be the case for an ammendment.

 

[azum4roll]

I still believe that putting a Barracks boost on Authority was the wrong choice. Tradition has boosts to Monument and Herbalist, but that's on a policy that's usually picked later than Militarism, plus Herbalist is a niche building. Pantheons already have a tight design space having to work on Ancient buildings and improvements only, so cannot afford to lose one building to policies.

Related to this proposal: This will make it a founding pantheon with two abilities that scale well into the endgame. Do we really want that?

 

[ma_kuh]

I feel like we're really just suffering from only having "one" war pantheon. The scaling abilities are cool, just maybe not both of them in the same slot?

Like if we reframed Goddess of Renewal as a Cycle of Life and Death kind of thing, you could put the faith-from-kills there (and pull out the random Market, why is that there?). And then War could keep the Barracks + small but scaling military prod boost, but be much less found-y.

 

[azum4roll]

(and pull out the random Market, why is that there?)

Because Springtime took Herbalist.

 

[rkkn]

they should both take herbalist imo
it's not like you can have both pantheons

 

[azum4roll]

*Sad Byzantium noises*

We seem to be also following the "No two pantheons boosting the same buildable building" rule.

 

[Stalker0]

you could argue that God of All Creation is another war pantheon, its tailored made for the super fast early rush where instead of focusing religion, you ignore it entirely, and then go conquer a holy city for yourself.

 

[Stalker0]

I still believe that putting a Barracks boost on Authority was the wrong choice.

You can argue if it should have been a different building, but I can say I am so happy it is no longer on garrisons. I use every single unit I've got when I play authority, having to keep them passively in cities was anti-fun, and anti-synergetic.

 

[randomnub]

Tradition has boosts to Monument and Herbalist, but that's on a policy that's usually picked later than Militarism

Ceremony is the 4th policy you unlock as Tradition, Militarism is the 5th if you play as you should. I can't think of a situation I'd delay Imperium/Tribute in a typical warmonger game. Exceptions: OCC, Aztec Trad/Authority mix, Medieval Authority dip (but then I'd stop at Dominance)...very niche situations. Anyway, looks like everybody wants to nerf this pantheon but nobody wants to get rid of the faith on kill, shame.

 

[azum4roll]

The building boosts are on Splendor, not Ceremony. I can't think of a situation I'd pick Tribute before Dominance and Militarism. Or maybe I just don't tribute enough, I don't know.

 

[randomnub]

It's not for tribute itself (even if it helps), it's for early settler, culture/science on expansion and production from border growth. Making the early game less barb/neighbors/difficulty dependant. Anyway ye sorry I read herbalist only and then though ceremony (3 building boosts on 4th policy), monuments come later (3 more building boosts on 5th).

 

[Anarcomu]

it's for early settler, culture/science on expansion and production from border growth

Except for free settler, all those things are in the first left policy, not the second.
I do find bonus culture from tributes strong enough to actually make me pick it before the right side of the tree.

EDIT : I misread your post, you were indeed speaking of those two policies to the left, my bad.

 

[rkkn]

Anyway, looks like everybody wants to nerf this pantheon but nobody wants to get rid of the faith on kill, shame.

I'd be down for that. And I think god of war should be split into two.

I think there is a problem here, and the issue is sort of masked by the fact that the AI is really bad at picking pantheons, and multiplayer is not common. Were this not the case there'd be fierce competition for God of War. Such that it might even mean shrine first or stonehenge rush would be the optimal play for warmongers, to ensure they get it.

 

[DoveCDog]

The problem with this proposal is that God of War will still heavily overlap with Aztec's UA.

 

[azum4roll]

I sponsor this.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.