625K with Inca's: is it valid?

[Tauro]

At the time I don't know for what reason the dom limit has changed from the strarting 51 to 58, and no one told me why
I played the last 50 turns in an horrible way, couse my strattegy was set to 52%
I could have done 1100K.

Anyway, 230 cities means that you've done a very good work in the ocean, so it's better to stop at 20% or you'll loose 80 turns of growing

I think that 850/900K is possile with the cap of 51; I've just finished a map with 812K, we'll see

 

[A_Turkish_Guy]

i ve finished my game.it is 924K.and finishes just like your game at 1530.finish turns are very close.

controling my domination limit was very hard.i gave two of 30+ cities ,two of 25+ cities and three of 15+ cities and liberated many cities.that cost me nearly 40K points..BUT it doesnt help.AI doesnt want to take every cities.So i have to give the close cities.after i gave them my borders just fill the land and my domination limit just increased the same..i had to finish the game a little earlier.maybe i can get 30-50K points more.

Most important thing in the game was after a city got unhappy it took 1 pop from the food tile.i have no idea how to prevent it.after AI gets democracy truely i dont want to play the game.nearly 100 cities just got mad and just stop growing.every turn i had to check the land for empty foods.and it was very hard for 230 cities..


my first game doesnt get 1000K points but i think it was not that hard if i can get 250 cities .it is possible.

after all your strategy for the B&S is just perfect.Truely i never thought B&S maps are good for higher scores.İf you have another good tactics for B&S i really want to hear them.

 

[ZPV]

At the time I don't know for what reason the dom limit has changed from the strarting 51 to 58, and no one told me why

I think this is a new colony bug introduced with 3.17.

Domination limit is linked to the number of civs starting in the game. More civs = lower domination limit.
One of the issues with 3.13 was that when a new colony was liberated, if noone had been conquered yet*, then there was one more civ in the game, so the domination limit went down.

They fixed this with the patch to v3.17. However, there is a hardcoded maximum of 18 civs in the game. When you start with 18 civs, conquer one of them, and liberate a colony, a new civ comes into existence, and the game is forced to completely delete the conquered civ (since otherwise it could remember 19 civs existing, but that isn't allowed). That is, it can now only remember 17 of the civs that started the game.
This makes the domination limit change.

Reading this myself, it looks a little unclear, so if you do not understand anything, please ask questions and help me clarify it. I'll submit a bug report when I get it clear enough.

*if a civ had been eliminated, then the well-documented colony bug came into effect (but not on HOF Mod 3.13).

 

[Tauro]

Thx for your interest
Here the problem is the opposit, couse when my opponents liberate the colonies the domination limit grows.

In other words:
1) I start with 18 civs, limit is 51%
2) I conquer about 5/6 civs BC, the limit is still 51%
3) One opponent liberates one colony on 1100 AD, limit grow to 52%
4)More opponents liberate more colonies, limit grow to the insane percentage of 58.

For me it's a bug, I have all the saves you want to prove it.

 

[Tauro]

GG turkish

With 250 cities you can go over 1200 for sure
In my last game I start the Sid Sushi at about turn 490; at turn 650 I had about 135 cities; 30 between 30/37 pop, and about 25 between 25/30 pop.
So your problem are
1)go for research earlier, and complete the SS before turn 500. In normal conditios I adopt always rappresentance civ
2)Happiness: Broadway an holliwood + Eiffel tower (usually I skip rock and roll)
3) Fast expansions of corporation: Redemptor. So after medicine go for mass media. You have to switch between rappresentance and universal suffrage. Drop your research to 0%, when you collect 10000 gold (about 3/7 turns) switch to universal suffrage, buy executive SS, courthouses, markets and so on. Your optimal spread rate should be two cities for turn.

 

[ZPV]

Thx for your interest
Here the problem is the opposit, couse when my opponents liberate the colonies the domination limit grows.

I knew I wasn't very clear.
That's exactly what I was trying to describe. Yes, it's a bug. Take advantage of it if you like.

I'll try to explain it using your example:

In other words:
1) I start with 18 civs, limit is 51%

So far so good. 18 civs => 51% domination limit.

2) I conquer about 5/6 civs BC, the limit is still 51%

When a civ is conquered it is not deleted from the game.
So, there are still 18 civs (some dead) => dom limit = 51%

3) One opponent liberates one colony on 1100 AD, limit grow to 52%

The game can only handle 18 civs. There were already 18 before the colony was created. One of the dead civs is deleted to make room for the colony. Now there are only 17 civs. Thus the domination limit is 52%.

Then, the colony is created. A change in version 3.17 was that colonies don't change the dom limit. So it stays at 52%.
Definitely a bug.

4)More opponents liberate more colonies, limit grow to the insane percentage of 58.

Step 3 repeats itself. You might be able to get the dom limit up to 70+% by conquering many civs and creating lots of colonies

I hope this was a bit clearer. If not, I'll keep trying.

 

[Tauro]

If not, I'll keep trying.

Lol
Now I've understood your answer

So we can reach 1500K in a monarch game?
Maybe it's better introduce some sort of colonies creation cap, couse this bug become an exploit...

 

[A_Turkish_Guy]

I think this is a new colony bug introduced with 3.17.

after looking Tauro's game i had a different thought.AI has total 7 vassals.51+7=58..

 

[Tauro]

In fact that's correct with ZPV said. You gain one percentage point for every new vassal. Assuming that you wipe about six civ in the early game, you can reach maybe 60/62% with a good strategy. Anyway I won't abuse of the bug
I'll hope that in the future my opponents will be so kind to create as vassalls as possible
A strategy could be to donate astronomy (sometimes I did it after communism, couse the civs start to commerce fish...why?? ) to force that Ai to colonize all the islands. In that case you will see more colonies.

 

[Tauro]

Another point to fix: what happens if there are 17 civs on the go, including "mother" civs and their vassals? How is possible to create new vassals with all the slots full?

 

[ZPV]

You gain one percentage point for every new vassal. Assuming that you wipe about six civ in the early game, you can reach maybe 60/62% with a good strategy.

After 60%, it goes up in steps of 2%:

Spoiler :

18 civs/0 colonies: 51%
17 civs/1 colony: 52%
16 civs/2 colonies: 53%
15 civs/3 colonies: 54%
14 civs/4 colonies: 55%
13 civs/5 colonies: 56%
12 civs/6 colonies: 57%
11 civs/7 colonies: 58%
10 civs/8 colonies: 59%
9 civs/9 colonies: 60%
8 civs/10 colonies: 62%
7 civs/11 colonies: 64%
6 civs/12 colonies: 66%
5 civs/13 colonies: 68%
4 civs/14 colonies: 70%
below that I don't remember off the top of my head.

Another point to fix: what happens if there are 17 civs on the go, including "mother" civs and their vassals? How is possible to create new vassals with all the slots full?

If you have 17 opponents alive, then the game won't let you (or an AI) create a colony.

 

[Tauro]

First of all Merry Christmas
Ok, I verified in the field with an experimental game
The domination limit is really linked to the number of vassals.
As usual I started with 17 opponents, I wiped 11 of them at 400/500 AD, then I create 8 colonies. The dom limit grow is slightly different in this game. The first step is 1%, all the following are 2%. Finally I reached a 72% domination limit with 15 new vassals, a starting civ vassalized and a last enemy civ.
Couriously the program didn't remember wich civ had been destroyed when you create the new colonies, so I saw the Fredrick and Napoleon resurrection

Anyway, that was a funny game with a good score (we can do better).
About Sid Sushi:
Founded in 895 AD, low spreading at the start, 204 cities in the corporation.
Big numbers about the population: about 2,2 billion at the end, 211 cities, two above 40, many above 30 (at least 25).
Tech: future technology 6 at turn 705
Score: over a million, about 1.035K, but we can do maybe 1200/1400K.

Turkish the strategy must be totally changed after 200 AD.
Another tip.
Try to synchronize the golden ages with the tech path: i delayed the first, second and sixth GA to avoid the anarchy, to speed the redemptor,to build an academy in Cuzco and to acquire banking BC.

 

[oyzar]

Did you try out g-major 40? I am playing through it now, and it is fun for milking score...

 

[ZPV]

I've investigated the bug a little more, it is a bug with HOF mod 3.17.001. (It's not present in the core game.)

I think it's a relic of Bhruic's unofficial patch for 3.13, included in HOF 3.13.00X, which didn't have this bug because you could never create a colony if you started with 18 civs in that patch.

 

[Tauro]

Maybe it should be better to fix it to prevent to p!ss all the domination record. Denniz feel free to delete my last game

 

[A_Turkish_Guy]

Turkish the strategy must be totally changed after 200 AD.

i ve already changed my strategy..i played a prince game.(i thought it was a monarch game..).start with 17 opponents.get a %58 domination limit.i didnt push it like you at %70 (that was too much ).i ve finished the game like a little more than 300 cities.i didnt count the cities.i have 270 corporated cities.but i have to finish the game a little earlier because of the Emancipation.my score is 1.253K
i m getting experienced and my next game i ll use your %70 dom limit strategy.maybe i can get 1.500K.

 

[jesusin]

Nice thread you have here!

There are many things I don't understand of your strategies:

- What are the lbs for?
- What are your 5 civics?
- How do you keep your economy going?

 

[Tauro]

Nice thread you have here!

There are many things I don't understand of your strategies:

- What are the lbs for?
- What are your 5 civics?
- How do you keep your economy going?

1)
lbs? Where have you read of them? Sorry but I don't know the meaning
2 and 3)
Pyramyds are mandatory; when I complete the oracle and achieve CS, I switch to
rapresentation
burocracy
caste system

the reason is obvious

The rex has to be microbalanced with research; after cs you must have first calendar, then currency (you have to build the mausoleum of mausolus asap).
If you do well you can go for the fist golden age at about 300 BC. Before I think is useless, better to do it when you r building market in the capital, parthenon, hanging gardens and so on. Delay your second golden age (reserching music, obvioulsy) when you are near banking , at about 100 BC, so you can switch to merchantilism and organized religion. Even better, if you have already built the swedagon paya, you can go for
rapresentation
burocracy
caste system
merchantilism
free religion

all before Christ.
These civics will change only after economy with free market. NEVER adopt ambientalism, it will cost you at least about 8000 gpt if you have spread well your corporation.

Once you've discoverer biology and medicine and corporations, your game will be cycle switch beetwen rapresentation and universal suffrage, BETTER if you have the redemptor.

Another (obvious) tip: found the sid sushi in the capital, and add asap the wall street, this is the reason why it's better to maintain the burocracy, even if you have 250 cities
In fact your cottages were built only int the rex city to sustain the initial economy. After that period your gold will be golden age, conquering cities, pillaging some neighbor, and specialist economy. You will be able to buy all your executives, markets, banks, harbors, settlers, courthouses in the initial stage of your sushi expansion when your research is cruising at 0%.
Sometimes switch to rapresentation to have some tech in 3/4 turns.

In the final stage you will be able to counter the emancipation penalty with your future techs


Sorry for the worst english ever seen on this forum

 

[oyzar]

burrecracy don't multiply gold, just commerce...

 

[killercane]

i ve finished my game.it is 924K.and finishes just like your game at 1530.finish turns are very close.

controling my domination limit was very hard.i gave two of 30+ cities ,two of 25+ cities and three of 15+ cities and liberated many cities.that cost me nearly 40K points..BUT it doesnt help.AI doesnt want to take every cities.So i have to give the close cities.after i gave them my borders just fill the land and my domination limit just increased the same..i had to finish the game a little earlier.maybe i can get 30-50K points more.

Most important thing in the game was after a city got unhappy it took 1 pop from the food tile.i have no idea how to prevent it.after AI gets democracy truely i dont want to play the game.nearly 100 cities just got mad and just stop growing.every turn i had to check the land for empty foods.and it was very hard for 230 cities..


my first game doesnt get 1000K points but i think it was not that hard if i can get 250 cities .it is possible.

after all your strategy for the B&S is just perfect.Truely i never thought B&S maps are good for higher scores.İf you have another good tactics for B&S i really want to hear them.

You can make it a lot easier on the "unhappy silly governor" changing your tiles from food by sorting the city list (F1?) by food per turn, and turning off and on the governor and playing with that a bit.

These civics will change only after economy with free market. NEVER adopt ambientalism, it will cost you at least about 8000 gpt if you have spread well your corporation.

Once you've discoverer biology and medicine and corporations, your game will be cycle switch beetwen rapresentation and universal suffrage, BETTER if you have the redemptor.

Another (obvious) tip: found the sid sushi in the capital, and add asap the wall street, this is the reason why it's better to maintain the burocracy, even if you have 250 cities
In fact your cottages were built only int the rex city to sustain the initial economy. After that period your gold will be golden age, conquering cities, pillaging some neighbor, and specialist economy. You will be able to buy all your executives, markets, banks, harbors, settlers, courthouses in the initial stage of your sushi expansion when your research is cruising at 0%.
Sometimes switch to rapresentation to have some tech in 3/4 turns.

In the final stage you will be able to counter the emancipation penalty with your future techs

-I think you would want HG on the last turn on the lower levels.
-Nationhood is excellent in the endgame for the reduced costs and +2 happy for barracks. Much better than bureau.
-You can switch to environmentalism every so often once you have over 10k commerce per turn.