Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
Host Note: 7-45 and 7-45a are mutually exclusive, but either is compatible with 7-46.
VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 45
Discussion Thread: (7-45) Khan Gains Medic I and II Promotions
Proposer: @Legen
Sponsor: @Legen
Proposal Details
Proposal
Rationale
The bonus healing from Khan's unique promotion doesn't stack with the healing from Medic promotions of allied units due to how the parameters they use work (SameTileHealChange and AdjacentTileHealChange); they only stack if it comes from the same unit. As such, if a Khan is near an allied unit with Medic II, the Khan's ability is wasted, as any unit near both the Medic II and the Khan will heal as if the latter wasn't there. Players unfamiliar with the civ may end disappointed when finding out they don't get a +20 HP from having both a Khan and a Medic II around, as they may expect these two to stack. In the end, given how often and how easily players train a few ranged units with Medic promotions, this unique part of Mongolia's kit quickly loses relevance compared to what other civs can already do with a generic archer or skirmisher.
Adding both Medic I and II means both promotions get to stack with the Khan's Enhanced Medic, keeping the unique promotion relevant even as other civs get their own +10 HP Medic II units. And as to why not just raise the Khan's healing, instead of adding Medic I and II: adding the Medic promotions communicates to new Mongolia players that they are not meant to be training other Medic units in hopes of stacking it with the Khan's ability. It helps avoiding a noob trap, and the subsequent disappointment it entails.
VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 45a
Discussion Thread: (7-45a) Replace Khan Healing From Unique Promotion With Medic I and II Promotions
Proposer: @Anarcomu
Sponsor: @Legen
Proposal Details
Proposal :
The Khan's unique promotion loses +10 heal to adjacent units. The Khan directly gains Medic I and II.
Rationale :
The healing mechanism of Civ 5 does not convey clearly that only the higher healing from adjacent units apply to you other units. It is, however, well known now that multiple medics do not stack. By differentiate healing from khan to Medic I and II, the fact that the Khan and other medics do not stack is made clearer.
A contrario to the original proposal, this does not change balance - except the khan itself heal quicker, but this is a very slight and situational buff.
VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 46
Discussion Thread: (7-46) Ordo "+1 Move" Rework
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Current Ordo:
Claims adjacent tiles
+50% defensive strength
"+1 move" for units that moves onto or starting their turn on the tile
Counts as Fortification and Canal
How the "+1 move" works: (Example assumes having the Gunpowder tech and a ring of roads on and around the Ordo. Road cost = 5/12 move points)
When a unit moves onto or starting its turn on an Ordo, add 1 to both current move points and max move points (e.g. 3.92/4 -> 3.5/4 -> 4.5/5)
When the unit moves off the Ordo, max move points return to normal, and current move points is capped at max move points (e.g. 4.5/5 -> 4.08/4 -> 4/4)
Note that the unit now has full moves. By moving on and off an Ordo a sufficient amount of times, any unit can regain full moves after having the Gunpowder tech.
It doesn't matter how far away the units are, as long as they can reach the Ordo on the turn, they'll have full moves.
Things get crazier with recon units, who can move fast and can pillage for free. Every unmanned tile a certain radius around the Ordo can be pillaged in one turn with one highly promoted recon unit.
However, I'm not going to propose to heavily change this. This proposal is going to be a QoL change for humans and enabling AI to benefit from part of it.
Proposal:
"+1 move" is replaced by "regain all movement points when moving onto this tile".
Below is a comparison:
Other options considered:
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
Host Note: 7-45 and 7-45a are mutually exclusive, but either is compatible with 7-46.
VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 45
Discussion Thread: (7-45) Khan Gains Medic I and II Promotions
Proposer: @Legen
Sponsor: @Legen
Proposal Details
Spoiler Related healing promotions, relevant parts underlined :
Proposal
- The Khan gains Medic I and Medic II promotions.
Rationale
The bonus healing from Khan's unique promotion doesn't stack with the healing from Medic promotions of allied units due to how the parameters they use work (SameTileHealChange and AdjacentTileHealChange); they only stack if it comes from the same unit. As such, if a Khan is near an allied unit with Medic II, the Khan's ability is wasted, as any unit near both the Medic II and the Khan will heal as if the latter wasn't there. Players unfamiliar with the civ may end disappointed when finding out they don't get a +20 HP from having both a Khan and a Medic II around, as they may expect these two to stack. In the end, given how often and how easily players train a few ranged units with Medic promotions, this unique part of Mongolia's kit quickly loses relevance compared to what other civs can already do with a generic archer or skirmisher.
Adding both Medic I and II means both promotions get to stack with the Khan's Enhanced Medic, keeping the unique promotion relevant even as other civs get their own +10 HP Medic II units. And as to why not just raise the Khan's healing, instead of adding Medic I and II: adding the Medic promotions communicates to new Mongolia players that they are not meant to be training other Medic units in hopes of stacking it with the Khan's ability. It helps avoiding a noob trap, and the subsequent disappointment it entails.
VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 45a
Discussion Thread: (7-45a) Replace Khan Healing From Unique Promotion With Medic I and II Promotions
Proposer: @Anarcomu
Sponsor: @Legen
Proposal Details
Proposal :
The Khan's unique promotion loses +10 heal to adjacent units. The Khan directly gains Medic I and II.
Rationale :
The healing mechanism of Civ 5 does not convey clearly that only the higher healing from adjacent units apply to you other units. It is, however, well known now that multiple medics do not stack. By differentiate healing from khan to Medic I and II, the fact that the Khan and other medics do not stack is made clearer.
A contrario to the original proposal, this does not change balance - except the khan itself heal quicker, but this is a very slight and situational buff.
VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 46
Discussion Thread: (7-46) Ordo "+1 Move" Rework
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll
Proposal Details
Current Ordo:
Claims adjacent tiles
+50% defensive strength
"+1 move" for units that moves onto or starting their turn on the tile
Counts as Fortification and Canal
How the "+1 move" works: (Example assumes having the Gunpowder tech and a ring of roads on and around the Ordo. Road cost = 5/12 move points)
When a unit moves onto or starting its turn on an Ordo, add 1 to both current move points and max move points (e.g. 3.92/4 -> 3.5/4 -> 4.5/5)
When the unit moves off the Ordo, max move points return to normal, and current move points is capped at max move points (e.g. 4.5/5 -> 4.08/4 -> 4/4)
Note that the unit now has full moves. By moving on and off an Ordo a sufficient amount of times, any unit can regain full moves after having the Gunpowder tech.
It doesn't matter how far away the units are, as long as they can reach the Ordo on the turn, they'll have full moves.
Spoiler Example :
Things get crazier with recon units, who can move fast and can pillage for free. Every unmanned tile a certain radius around the Ordo can be pillaged in one turn with one highly promoted recon unit.
However, I'm not going to propose to heavily change this. This proposal is going to be a QoL change for humans and enabling AI to benefit from part of it.
Proposal:
"+1 move" is replaced by "regain all movement points when moving onto this tile".
Below is a comparison:
| Point of comparison | Current behaviour | Proposed version |
|---|---|---|
| Unlock tech | Gunpowder | None |
| Tile(s) a unit can have full moves | Any roaded tile around the Ordo | The Ordo |
| Click(s) needed to recharge to full moves | A bazillion | 1 |
| Can AI utilize this to move across their kingdom with multiple intermediate Ordos? | No | Yes |
| Can AI utilize this to project their attack force further from owned land in one turn? | Yes (but only few units) | Yes (for a lot more units) |
| Can AI utilize this to focus fire a nearby enemy unit/city? | No | Maybe coincidentally |
Other options considered:
- +1 move limited once per turn only
- No, this is way too weak for a unique component
- +1 move limited once per turn per Ordo
- Computationally heavy, not viable
- Full move recharge once per turn only
- Weird incentive for a unit adjacent to an Ordo to move around it in order to go back later and benefit more
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