[Vote] (7-49) All Civs Gain City Connections Along Rivers

[pineappledan]

Proposal:
Give all civs the ability to make city connections on river tiles
Remove this ability from Songhai's UA (Songhai will still be able to do it, it's just not unique anymore)

Rationale:
The ability to connect cities along major waterways is not something unique to the Songhai. If there was ever a body of water that could be used this way, it was done.
This would be another major incentive to settle along rivers.
Songhai need to be nerfed anyways. You can nerf them by buffing everyone else.

Host Note: If this proposal passes, then regardless of what the outcome of (7-48) is, everyone gains Songhai's city connection bonus, which is an indirect nerf.

 

[pineappledan]

This is probably a supermajority change, since it's a major departure in the balance of river vs non-river cities, roads and other things.

However, it would actually be a very easy coding change to make. The ability already exists; we just need to give it to everyone.

 

[hokath]

Was such a huge thing in Civ IV, would vote for it back in a heartbeat.

 

[azum4roll]

No, because of how it currently works.

A and B are "connected" despite not being in the same river system, while B and C are NOT "connected" even though they're in the same river system.

Blue is water. "River" tiles are highlighted in yellow.

 

[gwennog]

Like the lighthouse which provides the maritime connection, it would not be bad to add a building which provides the river connection. Rather than giving it unconditionally.

 

[jarcast2]

Like the lighthouse which provides the maritime connection, it would not be bad to add a building which provides the river connection. Rather than giving it unconditionally.

Ironically there's already a mod for that.

Steam Workshop::River harbor and River Connections

steamcommunity.com

 

[Tekamthi]

A and B are "connected" despite not being in the same river system, while B and C are NOT "connected" even though they're in the same river system.

I gather it just checks for continuous river plots but not that the rivers are continuous? Sounds tedious to figure out the code for checking continuous rivers -- I think this concept will be rather popular but imo should handle continuity.

 

[N.Core]

I gather it just checks for continuous river plots but not that the rivers are continuous? Sounds tedious to figure out the code for checking continuous rivers -- I think this concept will be rather popular but imo should handle continuity.

It would be more tedious than just a simple check if a plot is a river plot. You don't want to account for river flow direction which is complicated and probably too consuming compute-wise.

 

[jarcast2]

There is this handy algorithm "RiverConnections.lua" by WHoward that does that and more.

River Connections

Lua classes, methods and functions to determine if two plots are connected by a river - see here for the general discussion A River is one or more contiguous RiverSegments. A river has a "known" headwaters and outflow (which may not be the actual headwaters/outflow if tiles have not been...

forums.civfanatics.com

It is used in the mod I posted and even in one of my mods.
I thought Songhai UA used that honestly.

 

[pineappledan]

changing what constitutes a river connection could be a separate proposal

 

[jarcast2]

Is it worth of a separate proposal if it's just a blatant bug fix of this?

 

[pineappledan]

If you can convince people it's a bug fix then it doesn't even need a proposal.

Giving everyone access to an ability and defining what that ability is are two separate matters.

 

[gwennog]

Giving everyone access to an ability and defining what that ability is are two separate matters.

If the ability is not defined, it seems complicated to give any answer to the application or not of this ability.

 

[pineappledan]

The bonus already exists. It’s on the Songhai UA. It is defined

 

[gwennog]

But it's selling something that doesn't work as it description suggests. Hence the interest in correcting it before selling it.

 

[pineappledan]

It has been known how the bonus works for years. Any user can boot up VP and play with it right now.

Changing who has access to an already defined ability and redefining what that ability does are two separate matters.

 

[KungCheops]

I sponsor this one.

 

[KungCheops]

Did anyone make a proposal to "fix" the "broken" existing logic for Songhai?

 

[pineappledan]

I think if they are, it's being handled outside congress

 

[Rekk]

Did anyone make a proposal to "fix" the "broken" existing logic for Songhai?

what's the current logic?