[Vote] (7-71) Remove Unit Upgrade Discount and Some Building Science from Military-Industrial Complex

[azum4roll]

Current Military-Industrial Complex (Autocracy tier 1 tenet):
-33% Gold cost of purchasing/upgrading units.
+3 Science from Defense Buildings, Citadels, Forts, and Unique Improvements.

"Defense Buildings" here include Walls, Castle, Bastion Fort, Arsenal, Military Base, Mine Field and Strategic Defense System.

Proposal:
Remove -33% unit upgrade Gold cost.
Remove Mine Field and Strategic Defense System from the list of Defense Buildings.

Rationale:

• The full Imperialism tree already has a -35% Gold discount on upgrading units. This one's a repeat, and stacking discounts is bad as always. This is likely the reason why some find upgrading units "too easy".
  
  • It used to be worse with Pentagon giving another -33% discount, making all upgrade costs 1 Gold. Good thing we got rid of that...
• Military-Industrial Complex is already a very strong tenet (giving so much Science!) without the halving of upgrade cost (65% -> 32%).
• Mine Field and Strategic Defense System should not be considered Defense buildings. This should make it consistent with Japan UA.

This proposal solves the same problem as https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/7-85-unit-upgrades-damages-unit-to-1-hp.689123/, but isn't technically a counterproposal.

 

[CppMaster]

Mine Field and Strategic Defense System should not be considered Defense buildings.

No? What is it used for?

 

[Legen]

Mine Field and Strategic Defense System should not be considered Defense buildings. This should make it consistent with Japan UA.

Japan UA used to buff those two buildings, but got nerfed in an attempt to tone down their AI performance. It had minimal impact, however; what really brought down AI Japan's performance was the complete removal of AI XP handicaps from influencing AI Japan.

Also, Defender of the Faith considers both Mine Field and Strategic Defense System as Defensive buildings and gives +2 +1 to them. Japan's UA is the inconsistent one with the rest of the game.

 

[pineappledan]

I'd prefer if we defined "defensive building" as just the mainline series of [ walls =>castle ... => military base ] anyways
It's just more comprehensible that way.

 

[Stalker0]

I'd prefer if we defined "defensive building" as just the mainline series of [ walls =>castle ... => military base ] anyways
It's just more comprehensible that way.

Its weird that buildigns that give defense....wouldn't be considered defense buildings

 

[pineappledan]

These policies etc don't boost the Guardhouse either. Just because lighthouse gives supply and HP doesn't mean people categorize it as a defensive building.

 

[Stalker0]

These policies etc don't boost the Guardhouse either. Just because lighthouse gives supply and HP doesn't mean people categorize it as a defensive building.

a good counterpoint. I consider my argument thwarted

 

[azum4roll]

Acropolis is clearly a defense building

 

[jarcast2]

I sponsor this.

 

[AndreyK]

There are many times as I don't take Imperialism but take Autocracy.

 

[azum4roll]

So? It still gives heaps of science as a t1 tenet.

 

[msw1]

I'm not a fan of this because freedom and order get very nice benefits in addition to the boost to their improvements and UI in their UI-boosting tenet. Autocracy should get something more than just flat improvement yields.

 

[pineappledan]

They would still have the unit purchase reduction

 

[msw1]

Ah, I missed that. I take it back then

 

[rkkn]

Just because lighthouse gives supply and HP doesn't mean people categorize it as a defensive building.

lighthouse giving hp was removed a while back. It is firmly not a defense building.

 

[azum4roll]

They would still have the unit purchase reduction

And up to +15 on buildings.

 

[dostillevi]

Lots of changes to gold in this session...

 

[azum4roll]

This is one tenet in one ideology...

 

[CppMaster]

This is one tenet in one ideology...

I think he meant the whole session, not just this proposal

 

[Stalker0]

I think he meant the whole session, not just this proposal

Likely true.

That said, I would also argue its a mistake to look at the number of proposals changing something, and instead look at the impact. While for example this change is just "1 tenant", MIC is a cornerstone of most autocracy builds. Changing it will have a much bigger impact than say changing commerce raiders does on Order.