[Vote] (7-89) Polynesian Moai Yield Changes Revote

[Recursive]

I've decided to host a revote of the (7-08) Polynesian UA & UI (Moai) Proposals vote. I believe it would have been better to host a separate vote on the UI versus the UA, so I'm remedying that problem now.

@pineappledan's version of the UA has clearly won. However, for the Moai, @azum4roll's proposed version (which was combined with his UA proposal in the vote) is quite similar, so I think it would have a chance of passing, and I'd rather knock this revote out of the way now rather than deal with it in a future VP Congress Session. I'll include @Legen's proposal as well for the same reason.

The following changes to the UA will be implemented regardless of how this vote turns out:

Spoiler Polynesia UA Proposal :

Current Polynesia UA

• +1 Sight when Embarked. Units can Embark and enter Deep Ocean immediately.
• +2 Food from Fishing Boats and Atolls.
• Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats.
• No Unhappiness from Isolation.

New Polynesia UA

• +2 Sight when Embarked. Units can Embark and enter Deep Ocean immediately.
• +2 Production from Fishing Boats and Atolls.
• Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats.
• No Unhappiness from Isolation.

There will be three choices for this vote: @pineappledan's version of the Moai, @Legen's version of the Moai and @azum4roll's version of the Moai. There is no "Nay" option because @pineappledan's changes won > 6:1 over Nay in the original vote, but I will include an "Abstain" option if you want to remove your vote.

I will set this poll to close 7 days after opening. Posting in the main forum for extra visibility.


Current Moai

Spoiler :

UI (Moai)
Culture: +1
Production: +1
Border Growth Points: +2

Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Architecture: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Flight: +1 Gold

Can only be built on coastal tiles.
+1 Culture from adjacency with another Moai or City.
Can be built on Resources, but does not connect them.

pineappledan's proposed Moai (proposal 7-89)
Discussion Thread: (7-08b) Polynesia Changes
Sponsor: @pineappledan

Spoiler :

UI (Moai)
Culture: +1
Production: +1
Border Growth Points: +2

Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Architecture: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Flight: +1 Gold +2 :c5tourism: Tourism

Can only be built on coastal tiles.
+1 Culture from adjacency with another Moai or City.
Can be built on Resources, but does not connect them.

Rationale:

• Polynesia is doing poorly in test games, and are appear to be in need of some buffs. I diagnose the problem as being too unfocused on converting their tile culture into CV power
• The +1 gold on a late tech boost on the Moai doesn't help Polynesia push towards that CV, and it makes their UI yields more similar to all the other UIs. This is more unique, and more sharply directed at Polynesia's core VC

azum4roll's proposed Moai
Discussion Thread: (7-08) Change Moai Yields from Tech
Sponsor: @Legen

Spoiler :

UI (Moai)
Culture: +1
Production: +1
Border Growth Points: +2

Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Architecture: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Flight: +1 Gold
Archaeology: +1
Refrigeration: +1

Can only be built on coastal tiles.
+1 Culture from adjacency with another Moai or City.
Can be built on Resources, but does not connect them.

Rationale:
Flight is at the bottom part of the tech tree, which does require Architecture but needs lots of bottom techs to reach. It also gives an irrelevant Gold yield and is way less desirable than Radio, a key tech for CV.
Archaeology is an important CV tech, and Refrigeration is directly after Radio, so they should be more fitting as boost techs.
The boost becomes Production and Tourism to directly help with building cultural buildings and winning CV.



Legen's proposed Moai
Discussion Thread: (7-08a) Polynesia Adjustments
Sponsor: @Legen

Spoiler :

UI (Moai)
Culture: +1
Production: +1
Border Growth Points: +2

Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Architecture: +1 +2 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Flight: +1 Gold, +3 :c5tourism: Tourism

Can only be built on coastal tiles.
+1 Culture from adjacency with another Moai or City.
Can be built on Resources, but does not connect them.

Rationale:

Polynesia's current winrate could be a consequence of cultural victories being harder after multiple VP Congress proposals tried to tone CVs down; there are a good number of other cultural civs that have lower winrates since patch 2.7 as well, such as Brazil, Arabia and Egypt. Since this is Polynesia's primary victory condition, they likely need some buffs on this end; both the Culture buffs to the Moai and UA are meant to address that.

 

[hokath]

My thought process is something like:
Legen's is +3 yields on top of the base proposal (which is +2 tourism -1 gold) and one of those (the extra culture) comes early. Since culture->tourism in the late game, this seems like the biggest power change, the biggest buff.
Azum's changes the techs and adds +2 production, it's also more power than the base. Changing from the Flight tech feels thematically weird given how Hawaii operates today.

Since Polynesia does poorly it should be one of these two. The UA change already adds extra production so combined with the (minor) point about Flight, I think Legen's proposal is my preferred choice.

 

[Tekamthi]

didn't azum's UI proposal also include adding back the aura? in the absence of any other unit-buffing ability, that one strikes me as best. Otherwise they're all a push imo

 

[pineappledan]

Azum’s change is 5 different tech boosts. That’s excessive. I don’t think any other UI has more than 4. It’s also too much raw especially In light of how he UA is going to change the fishing boat bonus.

Legen’s is too much of a raw buff. Just way Too many yields. It also undermines the BGP to full culture conversion by removing 1 BGP while adding 2 culture.

 

[pineappledan]

didn't azum's UI proposal also include adding back the aura? in the absence of any other unit-buffing ability, that one strikes me as best. Otherwise they're all a push imo

That was part of his Shoshone/Huns/Polynesia proposal, and he split off his yield changes to the moai into a separate proposal.

 

[Tekamthi]

That was part of his Shoshone/Huns/Polynesia proposal, and he split off his yield changes to the moai into a separate proposal.

title reads "moai revote" -- aura is a moai feature

 

[Recursive]

title reads "moai revote" -- aura is a moai feature

This is only for the yield changes. The aura can be proposed back in a later session if desired.

Title edited.

 

[Tekamthi]

k i'm out on this one then -- poly's only weakness in human hands is their fragile islands & remote coastal holdings. Gonna be an auto-win-iff-peace/auto-loss-iff-war civ with all these extra yields and no unit buffs, 'specially with recon UU (i assume that passed too?)

 

[azum4roll]

title reads "moai revote" -- aura is a moai feature

Aura is part of the trait. Otherwise other civs could benefit from it after capturing Polynesian tiles, which is not the case.

Azum’s change is 5 different tech boosts. That’s excessive. I don’t think any other UI has more than 4.

Why's that ever a problem? Remember that I plan to add tech boosts to most other UIs as well. They should always be worth working throughout the game regardless of policy/belief choice.

The main point of my change is to move the boost away from the bottom of the tree though, especially a tech parallel to Radio.

 

[Zuizgond]

Strange to see a stone statue providing that much production.

 

[CppMaster]

Strange to see a stone statue providing that much production.

Seems pretty capable of hard work
Source

 

[azum4roll]

Strange to see a stone statue providing that much production.

Technically, it's still a source of stone, which provides production (and never depletes)

 

[usadefcon1]

Last day to vote on this.