[Vote] (7-08) Polynesian UA & UI (Moai) Proposals

[Recursive]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 8
Discussion Thread: (7-08-1 & 7-09) Polynesia/Shoshone/Huns Changes (Host Note: The Polynesia change has been split off from the Shoshone and Huns changes.)
Second Discussion Thread: (7-08-2) Change Moai Yields From Tech
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @azum4roll (DLL) & @Legen (UI)

Proposal Details
Current Polynesia UA:
+1 Sight when Embarked, can always Embark and move over Oceans. +2 Food from Fishing Boats and Atolls. Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats. No Unhappiness from Isolation.

Current Moai yields:
Base: 1 1 2 BGP, +1 if adjacent to city, +1 per adjacent Moai
Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 -1 BGP
Architecture: +1 -1 BGP
Flight: +1

Problems:

• Last congress moved Moai's combat strength aura to Encampment.
• While being a buff to Shoshone (more on that later), this was an undeserved nerf for Polynesia, who is currently subpar and has the worst UU which was designed having the +20% CS in mind.
• The proposal presumed that it was an "underdeveloped part of their kit". While similar to the Pride of the Ancestors promotion, the aura extended the +20% CS effect 3 tiles towards the ocean, and sometimes towards enemy coastal territory. This allowed Polynesia to defend their island cities with a navy, while also restricting their aggression target to players who dare to settle on their coast.

Proposed Polynesia UA:
+1 Sight when Embarked, can always Embark and move over Oceans. +2 Food from Fishing Boats and Atolls. Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats. Units gain +20% Combat Strength within 3 tiles of an owned Moai. No Unhappiness from Isolation.

Proposed Moai yields:
Base: 1 1 2 BGP, +1 if adjacent to city, +1 per adjacent Moai
Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 -1 BGP
Architecture: +1 -1 BGP
Archaeology: +1
Refrigeration: +1

Rationale for Moai yield changes:
Flight is at the bottom part of the tech tree, which does require Architecture but needs lots of bottom techs to reach. It also gives an irrelevant Gold yield and is way less desirable than Radio, a key tech for CV.
Archaeology is an important CV tech, and Refrigeration is directly after Radio, so they should be more fitting as boost techs.
The boost becomes Production and Tourism to directly help with building cultural buildings and winning CV.

In summary:

• The combat aura is moved back onto Moai (+20% CS for Polynesia units 3 tiles around any Polynesia-owned Moai).
• For the Moai, +1 at Flight is replaced with +1 at Archaeology and Refrigeration.

VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 8a
Discussion Thread: (7-08a) Polynesia Adjustments
Proposer: @Legen
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details

Spoiler Current Polynesia UA and UI :

UA (Wayfinding)
+1 Sight when Embarked, can always Embark and move over Oceans. +2 Food from Fishing Boats and Atolls. Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats. No Unhappiness from Isolation.

UI (Moai)
Culture: +1
Production: +1
Border Growth Points: +2

Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Architecture: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Flight: +1 Gold

Can only be built on coastal tiles.
+1 Culture from adjacency with another Moai or City.
Can be built on Resources, but does not connect them.

Proposal

• Polynesia's UA gives 2 Culture to Fishing Boats, instead of Food.
• Polynesia's UI gains the following yield buffs from techs:
  • +2 Culture from Architecture, up from +1 Culture.
  • +3 Tourism from Flight.

Spoiler How the UA and UI will look like, changes underlined :

UA (Wayfinding)
+1 Sight when Embarked, can always Embark and move over Oceans. +2 Culture from Fishing Boats and +2 Food from Atolls. Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats. No Unhappiness from Isolation.

UI (Moai)
Culture: +1
Production: +1
Border Growth Points: +2

Engineering: +1
Astronomy: +1 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Architecture: +2 Culture, -1 Border Growth Point
Flight: +1 Gold, +3 Tourism

Can only be built on coastal tiles.
+1 Culture from adjacency with another Moai or City.
Can be built on Resources, but does not connect them.

Rationale

Polynesia's current winrate could be a consequence of cultural victories being harder after multiple VP Congress proposals tried to tone CVs down; there are a good number of other cultural civs that have lower winrates since patch 2.7 as well, such as Brazil, Arabia and Egypt. Since this is Polynesia's primary victory condition, they likely need some buffs on this end; both the Culture buffs to the Moai and UA are meant to address that. And in particular, the only reason why the current bonus to Fishing Boats gives 2 Food, instead of the original 2 Culture when it was part of Japan's UA, is because Polynesia was considered overpowered at the time. Now that this civ needs help, it should be ok for it to give Culture instead.



VP Congress: Session 7, Proposal 8b
Discussion Thread: (7-08b) Polynesia Changes
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @pineappledan

Proposal Details

Spoiler Polynesia UA Proposal :

Current Polynesia UA

• +1 Sight when Embarked. Units can Embark and enter Deep Ocean immediately.
• +2 Food from Fishing Boats and Atolls.
• Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats.
• No Unhappiness from Isolation.

Current Moai yields:
Base: 1 1 2 BGP, +1 if adjacent to city, +1 per adjacent Moai

• Engineering: +1
• Astronomy: +1 -1 BGP
• Architecture: +1 -1 BGP
• Flight: +1

Proposed Polynesia UA

• +2 Sight when Embarked. Units can Embark and enter Deep Ocean immediately.
• +2 Production from Fishing Boats and Atolls.
• Melee and Gunpowder Units can construct Fishing Boats.
• No Unhappiness from Isolation.

Proposed Moai yields

• Base: 1 1 2 BGP, +1 if adjacent to city, +1 per adjacent Moai
• Engineering: +1
• Astronomy: +1 -1 BGP
• Architecture: +1 -1 BGP
• Flight: +2

Rationale:

• Polynesia is doing poorly in test games, and are appear to be in need of some buffs. I diagnose the problem as being too unfocused on converting their tile culture into CV power

Polynesia:

• The +2 embarked vision will help Polynesia find more land faster while embarked. This is a vision radius of 3, equivalent to a scout unit's base vision on land. This means Polynesian naval scouting will not suffer a vision penalty when embarked. Polynesian units can also survey coastline while remaining inside deep ocean, outside the interference of naval barbs until they are ready to commit.
• Extra food on Fish and Atolls, both already food-rich tiles, is overkill. Coastal/island cities suffer for lack of production, not food.
• The +1 gold on a late tech boost on the Moai doesn't help Polynesia push towards that CV, and it makes their UI yields more similar to all the other UIs. This is more unique, and more sharply directed at Polynesia's core VC

 

[Legen]

@Recursive On the sponsorship, azum4roll's proposal has two: azum sponsoring the UA change, and me sponsoring the UI yield change. Before we get a confusion next month on who implements what.

 

[rkkn]

hm. I like the +sight on pdan's polynesia UA change but think the food -> production will be too much of a buff early if the maori warrior -> scout replacement passes.
oh well, can balance later I guess

 

[azum4roll]

I disagree with the merge of the combat aura (or any Polynesia UA changes) and the Moai yields into one proposal. They're separate components that just happen to be on the same civ.

The yield change would have a better chance to pass if left alone.

 

[hokath]

Quite. You proposed the two things separately, right?

 

[azum4roll]

I made 3 proposals.

1. Moai yield buff
2. Maori Warrior buff
3. Polynesia/Shoshone/Huns UA change

It was just unclear whether number 3 could be split into two (revert combat aura swap + other UA changes), but doing this the current way seems to be worse.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.