7 grams - DG with AI Armies

[grahamiam]

well, mobilizing is definitely another approach to killing off the game fast, however, steam allows for rails, which makes the loading of units at ideal ports a lot easier, and we can get them to the front very fast. it also allows you to have less defenders once the railnet is up. the rails also give a nice production bonus. 3rd, the AI always places high research value on Nationalism. While not applicable in this game since we have a good handle on it, it does give the player time to research steam, industrialization, ToE, Rep Parts, etc, while the AI wastes time on the Nat, Communism, Facism line. By us researching Nat, we make it cheaper for the AI, thus reduces the turns till it's done with those techs and moving on to Replacable Parts with those pesky Infantry.

 

[M60A3TTS]

One other thing. If we're going for a domination victory, we still want temple builds on the new continent. We can't do that if we mobilize.

 

[Wotan]

well, mobilizing is definitely another approach to killing off the game fast, however, steam allows for rails, which makes the loading of units at ideal ports a lot easier, and we can get them to the front very fast. it also allows you to have less defenders once the railnet is up. the rails also give a nice production bonus. 3rd, the AI always places high research value on Nationalism. While not applicable in this game since we have a good handle on it, it does give the player time to research steam, industrialization, ToE, Rep Parts, etc, while the AI wastes time on the Nat, Communism, Facism line. By us researching Nat, we make it cheaper for the AI, thus reduces the turns till it's done with those techs and moving on to Replacable Parts with those pesky Infantry.

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. I just thought these arguments were so obvious.

I am OK with this as a learning experience, but for it to work as one you need to have a dialogue. Ask questions, Do I do this or that? Why should I do this or that? etc. I have a low threshhold for mistakes that could be easily avoided, I am my worst enemy in getting very upset when I miss something in my turns, but I get equally upset when someone does less than their best in a team game by not checking facts before acting. We all invest a lot of time in a game. I will only do that if I feel everyone acts with the same care to do their best. Your points on Steam over Nationalism are so basic I never even gave it a second thought someone would not go Steam.

Will play tonight when I am back home.

 

[grahamiam]

We all invest a lot of time in a game. I will only do that if I feel everyone acts with the same care to do their best.

bolding by me. it's important to remember, despite all the time invested, that it's only a game

Also, I have no doubt that BeF tried his best. However, his best and your best are 2 different things I would expect someone with your expertise to see holes in his play, as he's relatively new to playing at this level. I agree he should have asked what to research next so, hopefully, it's a lesson learned.

As someone who plays at your level, my only advise to you is to chill out, everyone plays this game different. BeF did nothing during his 10 turns that put the win in jeapordy. So look at it any of his mistakes as a challange, not a failure, and give the Mayan hell

edit: btw, just noticed that there's a "wotan321" on the board. looks like someone else likes that username

 

[Wotan]

I know, I could do with some "cooling off" at times. But remember, my barking is just barking, I never bite. It might come off harsh at times but it is really just to get attention to what I find being "out of order".

Why I might have been a bit less than subtle this time was that after BeF's last turn set with "problems" the advise was to stop playing and ask before continuing when confronted with a situation. Changing techs is something I stop to discuss with a team before going along on a new research stint (even at my level of experience) or if I know a tech will finish during my turn set I discuss the next tech with my team before starting to play. The fact that BeF did nothing of the above was what got me a bit annoyed.

And, I agree BeF did nothing to jeopardize the game but for a player interested in developing his game one would expect a few questions before running headfirst into a situation. Building Defensive units/Muskets and infrastructure late in a game is something I too did not that long ago.

 

[Wotan]

Save
This was a rather relaxed turn set since I had to seek peace with Mayans not too far into my turns. I must admit I have barely MMed anything, just moving units towards the future front lines and building Cavalry. Only the first 3 turns really made my think. No real need for a map at this point since nothing really important happened during my turns.

Turn log

0 – 1250AD Pre-flight
Switching to Steam Power. Switching all production to either Cavalry, Temples, Settlers or ships.

IBT: Mayan Archer walks into Vitoria and capture it. 12 Mayan Cavalry appear near Tyrana/Alalah

1 – 1255AD.
Valencia Temple -> Wealth
Vitcos Settler -> Worker

Killed the “dirty dozen” Mayan Cavalry, no offensive actions though. We lost 4 Cavalry doing it.
Karhuyuk captured, 2 Muskets defending, no losses.
We are low on Cavalry. I would guess we will have to make peace with the Mayans one more time before we are in a position to take them out.

IBT: Alalah falls, another flood of Mayan Cavalry enter the scene. Mayan landing next to hofya.


2 – 1260AD
Salamanca Temple -> Wealth
Abydos Settler -> Cavalry

Alalah retaken.
Tanis founded.

Foreign Shores captured.

IBT: 6HP Knight Army at Panama killed.

3 – 1265AD
Thebes Cavalry -> Cavalry
Giza Cavalry -> Cavalry
Hieraconpolis Cavalry -> Cavalry
Pamplona Settler -> Settler

Situation:15+ Mayans in the north, 30+ Mayans around Panama one 1HP Cavalry left defending, but Mayans are willing to talk peace. I cut the Saltpeter in Mayan lands. Make an all out attack on Alaca Huyuk and capture it with the help of three armies, no losses and only 3 Muskets defending rush a temple there and cross my fingers it will expand so we can settle a couple of towns there and then abandon it. Karatepe captured. Kill a few wounded Mayan Cavalry and Muskets and seek peace (WW is starting to make itself known too). Mayans are in IA too BTW. I seek peace with Ottomans too, we get Music Theory and 10 gold thrown into the deal by them.

Unfortunately the Saltpeter near Alaca Huyuk was not the last Mayan saltpeter so our position is still precarious vs. the Mayans. We need to rebuild our armies fast and be prepared to launch another attack ASAP.

IBT: The Mayan hordes leave our lands, close call! The Mayans would not speak the turn before so we were really saved by the bell.

4 – 1270AD
Adrianople Cavalry -> Cavalry
Caesarea Cavalry -> Cavalry
Memphis Cavalry -> Cavalry
Heliopolis Cavalry -> Cavalry
Pi-Ramesses Cavalry -> Cavalry


5 – 1275AD

6 – 1280AD
4 Cavalry built and 1 Temple.

IBT: Alaca Huyuk flips, damn 3 turns until it had expanded borders and I could have substituted it with our own cities.

7 – 1285AD
2 Cavalry and 2 Settlers.

8 – 1290AD
3 Cavalry.

9 – 1295AD
2 Cavalry. Steam Power kicks in. I stop research, we make 566 gpt.

Railing our empire!!!

10 – 1300AD
2 Cavalry.

Buhen founded.

After action report:
47 Cavalry, maybe another 20 before we take on the Mayans again.

Building Rail to optimize the transfer of units through the 2 turn voyage between Asyut and Kishuyuk.
BTW: I have been quite dense and moved the ships all the way to the coastline near Tyrania when dumping Cavalry at Kishuyuk already at this point would have been better. Only Settlers gain distance by going by boat all the way.

Over to you Grahamiam!

 

[M60A3TTS]

Switching all production to either Cavalry, Temples, Settlers or ships.

Don't know that we need more boats, but the other 3 items should be the only thing in queue from here on out.

If WW becomes an issue again, let's just go Monarchy. Since we're religious it's a short bit of anarchy.

 

[grahamiam]

another 20 turns of peace? well, we'll probably fight AI armies in the next war, so it should be more fun

ok, got it, but not till Saturday.

 

[Wotan]

another 20 turns of peace? well, we'll probably fight AI armies in the next war, so it should be more fun

ok, got it, but not till Saturday.

I do not think you need to wait for 20 turns if the opportunity shows itself. Our rep is no longer important. Or can we not break a peace agreement in this game? I was thinking about a good old RoP rape to finish this off ASAP.

 

[Wotan]

Don't know that we need more boats, but the other 3 items should be the only thing in queue from here on out.

If WW becomes an issue again, let's just go Monarchy. Since we're religious it's a short bit of anarchy.

I was not sure about the development of the game at the start of my turns. Any coastal location not in need of a Temple or having a Barracks I set to produce ships/Settlers at the start of my turns. Feel free to change this to anything else.

Probably no need to go Monarchy. We will hopefully finish this game pretty fast after reinitiating the war.

 

[grahamiam]

I do not think you need to wait for 20 turns if the opportunity shows itself. Our rep is no longer important. Or can we not break a peace agreement in this game? I was thinking about a good old RoP rape to finish this off ASAP.

The following tactics are PROHIBITED:

RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape,
or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory
has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.

Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must
wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war.

This is not a gotm RoP rape fest

However, what did we get for peace? techs, gold, etc? If so, then, yes, we must wait 20T.

 

[Wotan]

This is not a gotm RoP rape fest

However, what did we get for peace? techs, gold, etc? If so, then, yes, we must wait 20T.

Oops, sorry about me being less than mr. nice guy. OK, RoP rape is out. We did not take anything in the peace with mayans. I took a tech from Babylon though so they are off limits then. OTOH, we could make demands on an AI to leave our terriotory and get them to DoW. That would be OK, right?

I must confess I have not read the "rules" that closely.

 

[grahamiam]

ok, i'll plot against the Mayans. Probably too late for me to request that you read the rules as this ones in the bag

 

[Wotan]

Probably too late for me to request that you read the rules as this ones in the bag

The problem is basically that when you have been around the block a few times you take things for granted. So I have played this game more or less like any GOTM/SGOTM. I knew about the ban on ship-chaining and resource disconnect, so no broken rules to my knowledge...

 

[M60A3TTS]

I don't see this as a cakewalk. We have all these captured Mayan towns with thin garrisons and there has to be a good amount of flip risk. Our work force could stand to be bolstered up. The Mayans still have a lot of land, can build rifles and will probably be railing before too long.

We have a couple towns building wealth. I suggest some workers instead. Building cav in totally corrupt towns seems to provide little return. In those towns, taxmen and worker or settler builds might be better.

I disagree that we won't need Monarchy before this is over. IMHO the casualty rate is going to kick WW into gear, especially where we are declaring and will be pushing a lot of troops into enemy territory.

Shouldn't we up upgrade these caravels so they can carry more stuff?

 

[Wotan]

I have rushed temples in the most exposed Mayan towns. The idea is to wait until they expand and then put down our own towns in the newly opened area and then abandon the Mayan towns. I had hoped to do this in the town that filpped too but it flipped three turns before expanding.

Rifles, in 5-10 turns minimum, they have just entered the IA. Probably going for Nationalism though so it will be available to them. Rail will be another 5-10 turns later and by them we should be deep into their lands.

The cavs in "totally corrupt" cities are a result of builds of courthouses etc. I inherited. With the high gpt now we can rush them whenever we want and then go for wealth of workers.

If we go Monarchy it should wait until WW is "ridiculous" not before.

Caravels -> Galleons: We have had a positive gpt for 1 turn, I agree we could upgrade them but there are enough of lift capacity ATM to work the short passage between (cannot remember the names but I have mentioned the two cities in my report) the continents.

 

[M60A3TTS]

I have rushed temples in the most exposed Mayan towns. The idea is to wait until they expand and then put down our own towns in the newly opened area and then abandon the Mayan towns.

Guess I'm a bit slow on this one. Temples rushed to reduce flip risk. Check. Put our towns in newly opened area? That is where I got lost.

 

[Wotan]

Guess I'm a bit slow on this one. Temples rushed to reduce flip risk. Check. Put our towns in newly opened area? That is where I got lost.

You cannot found a city in the area around a "non-expanded" city and if you abandon one of the Mayan cities at the front the cultural borders from the other mayan cities will expand so far into the territory left by the abandoned city you will not be able to put down a new city there without DoW.. When it expands you can put one or more down at 2 tiles distance ( this will also gain territory from your neighbour). If you use your "own" settler/s you will have a location/s less likely to flip and by abandoning the "threatened" city you take away most of the flip risk.

 

[grahamiam]

sorry, it's been a hectic weekend. will start playing tonight but won't be done till tomorrow, it seems.

edit: got up to the end of 1320AD, Maya got Nat in 1305AD.

 

[grahamiam]

Preflight check: Rush some temples, go around a MM towns, optimizing on 20spt for the core. Rush some more workers too. Need lots of rails. Scroll thru all towns just ‘cause I can’t help myself.

T1: 1305AD worker moves and rush stuff.

IBT: Mayan complete Smith’s in Palenque

T2: 1310AD Mayan now have Nationalism

T4: 1320AD Save here for the night.
Sell ToG to the Ottomans for Nav, WM, and 30g. They draw Nat too. Can get Nat for Steam and Mil Trad, but hold off for now.

T5: 1325AD Found Oryx -> walls

T8: 1340AD
IBT: Mayan’s complete Newton’s in Copan

T10: 1350AD And done. No wars, but we should be ready. Railnets are up (both continents), 5 core towns are doing 20+spt and can shortrush cavs via muskets, and a sea route from Asyut-> to the other side (Cairo) is setup. We may be able to win this by just holding on at the neck under the Mayans, then sweeping away all their holdings away from their core.
We can also turn research back on and bee-line for RP if desired, but I think KB can put together a quick strike with those 80+ Cav’s we've accumulated.

We are at 52/51, but we have a ton of workers (54 + a lot of slaves) that can rejoin the towns to get us over the hump. Also, we have 9 settlers for burrowing into the Mayans and to raze/replace + fill gaps.

Roster:
grahamiam
Kaiser Berger -> UP
M60A3TTS -> on deck
Mailman
Wotan
Beorn-eL-Feared