[UI] (7-NS) All Tier 2 Ideology Tenets are accessible

[Stalker0]

Let’s take this to the discord deliberations thread, this is really not the place to get into a detailed discussion of congress structure

 

[CppMaster]

I don't use Discord much, but yeah, it's an offtop

 

[Revolutionist_8]

looking at the grpahic, it seems easy enough to include 2 more boxes by removing the image (or shrinking it and moving it elsewhere).

However, with the 3rd one...you don't have enough tier 1 tenents to meet your prereqs, unless you want to relax that too with this change.

Buttons can be made smaller to make space for the ideology splash image.

Also, if you want all 7 T2 tenets to be selectable, we need one more T1 tenet for each ideology. This proposal simply won't work without that.

I've purposefully written that the hierarchy would remain the same, so no extra requirements are necessary. The 3 remaining T2 Tenets would be just there on the right side, as an alternative way to pick them up once you made your priority (exactly like how it goes with T1 ones, only difference is that there 5 needed for all T2 and 2 are remaining). I have no intention to mess with the structure.

The buttons being smaller is a good idea tho, haven't thought about that. Maybe slightly smaller icons and just a tiny bit smaller splash screen, and we have space for the extra 3 Tenets.

This sounds like a bug and I'm considering vetoing this proposal as a result.

Please feel free to do so. I'm also torned between this proposal and one which would aim to address that. However, I wanted to at least try this option first as it'd give more, rather than take away anything.

I used to resent not being able to pick all tenets from tier 2, but I learned to appreciate it. It's cool that you can, in a way, customize your ideology to fit your needs for each game. I just find it weird that this feature is only for tier 2 tenets.

I agree and I don't agree. Usually the most optimal way (at least in my opinion) is to pick the one which gives you immediate benefit, and as generic as possible. That way you'll get the most value out from your Culture being spent.

Just as an example: the Self-Determination Tenet in Freedom is awesome, both thematically and from game perspective. However, I won't start waging wars just because this Tenet, and what if I don't need it right now? Maybe it'll be good in the future, but by that time have I chosen another Tenet, I'd have gained a ton of other benefits.

However, if I can choose all options, I may choose it because right now I'm at war or planning to do so in the near future, and I don't "feel bad" missing out from the "generic, always good" option, because I can choose that also later. I like when players must choose and decide, but such situations create a racing condition, where (strong emphasis on this) usually the "most generic, always good" options come first due to their nature.

Maybe it's a bad argument or it's a min-maxing attitude, but that's my thought process kinda. If a UI limitation is the only reason to miss out from cool but situational abilities, then I vote for changing the UI.

 

[Stalker0]

I've purposefully written that the hierarchy would remain the same, so no extra requirements are necessary. The 3 remaining T2 Tenets would be just there on the right side, as an alternative way to pick them up once you made your priority (exactly like how it goes with T1 ones, only difference is that there 5 needed for all T2 and 2 are remaining). I have no intention to mess with the structure.

Not understanding so let me try an example.

Ok so I have 4 Tier 2 tenents (which requires 5 T1s). I now get a new tenent, can I just select a tier 2? And then the tenent after that, can that be a tier 2 as well or do i have to pick something else first?

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Not understanding so let me try an example.

Ok so I have 4 Tier 2 tenents (which requires 5 T1s). I now get a new tenent, can I just select a tier 2?

Yes, exactly.

And then the tenent after that, can that be a tier 2 as well

Yes.

do i have to pick something else first?

No, you don't have to.

Should I formulate the wording of the proposal better? In my head it's clear, but maybe I couldn't convey it well enough.

 

[Stalker0]

Should I formulate the wording of the proposal better? In my head it's clear, but maybe I couldn't convey it well enough.

You speak about how the T3 prereqs don't change but you never mention how the T1s work with this. Aka do I need more T1s to get these T2s. The answer seems to be no, but that is never mentioned in the OP

 

[Revolutionist_8]

Amendment: added "only 5 Tier 1 Tenets are needed for all Tier 2 Tenets" (better clarification of the structure)

 

[Recursive]

I've decided I won't veto this, but if this change is not sponsored or passed, then the AI bug will be fixed.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I've decided I won't veto this, but if this change is not sponsored or passed, then the AI bug will be fixed.

Shall I create a ticket on GitHub, or have you added it to your (potentially) TODO list?

 

[N.Core]

Why is this one tagged as a UI change? This clearly requires some DLL adjustments to account for the new requirement for the last T2 tenet.

 

[azum4roll]

I can sponsor the DLL.

Implementing it as follows:
If all tenets of the previous level have been taken, ignore the requirement.

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.