720 AD Trade's

[Strider]

I know I'm not "offcially" the minister untill the 1st, but I figure we might as well get discussion started, and anyway citizens can post discussions.

Germany
They have 2 gold and a world map, we'd get more money selling contact with them to other civs. Nonetheless, we should gift education to them.

Were up:
Education

India
12gold and a world map, same as above.

Were Up:
Engerneering
Chivalry
Education

Russia
9 gold and a world map.... (starting to get bored)

Were Up:
Chivalry
Education

Babylon
Finally someone who cares!!!

There give us World Map, 6gpt, and 50 gold for all of our Contacts...minus the Persian and Egyptian Contact
They will also give us the same thing for Education

Were Up:
Education

Persia
Not for the weak of heart
Persia will give us World Map, 64gpt, and 20g for all of our contacts, except the egyptian contact.

This Civilization has the same advance's as we do

Aztecs
16gold and a world map to offer... not much.

Were Up:
The Republic
Engineering
Theology
Chivalry
Education

Zululand
They only have a World Map to offer.

Were Up:
Theology
Education

Iroquois
They only have a World Map to trade.

Were Up:
This civilization is still in the ancient age.

Greece
They only have 8 gold and world map as tradeable items.

Were Up:
Engineering
Education
Chivalry

Egypt
This civilization will trade us Invention for all of our contacts and 149g
They will also give us Invention for Education and Chivarly
They will also give us Invention for Education and 140g

Were Down:
Invention

England
They will give us a World map and 120g for all of our contacts except Egypt, Persia, and Babylon (the reasons are above)

Also, the English is cautious towards us, I would recommend signing a ROP with them to change that. (there on an island by themself, I see no harm in it)

I would recommend the following trades (in this order):

(1)Persia: World Map, 64gpt, and 20g for all of our contacts, except the egyptian contact
(2)Egypt: Invention for all of our contacts and 149g
(3)Babylon: World Map, 6gpt, and 50 gold for all of our Contacts...minus the Persian and Egyptian contacts.
(4)England: World map and 120g for all of our contacts except Egypt, Persia, and Babylon
(5)Aztecs: World map and 16g for any contacts we have to offer
(6)India: World map and 12g for any contacts we have to offer

Then go and trade contacts to the civilizations not listed above.

This will make us end up with:

About 100 less contacts
69g
70gpt
6 World Maps
Invetion

 

[Chieftess]

:salivates: at the Persia trade!!

Also remember that Invention may not go for the said value after the trades, since we'll be giving away contact.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Chieftess
:salivates: at the Persia trade!!

Also remember that Invention may not go for the said value after the trades, since we'll be giving away contact.

Read CT!!

Persia will give us World Map, 64gpt, and 20g for all of our contacts, except the egyptian contact.

 

[GenMarshall]

I would also second that trade deal .

 

[Chieftess]

Just noticed something. We can knock off the Egypt and Greece contacts with Persia, and still get the same amount. Or, even Egypt and Babylon.

 

[zorven]

Is it wise to trade contacts? We are the only go-between the new and old worlds. We can use that to our advantage by trading techs. If we trade even one contact between those groups, we lose that advantage.

 

[Chieftess]

That's the catch... and it's Strider's idea. However, you can also argue that it's getting close Astronomy. Education --> Astronomy. We *WILL* have to gift Germany Education at some point to nullify the Great Library. One contact with the AI, and they'll be trading maps and contact like there's no tomorrow. We waited now because Germany's Great Library was still effective. After the next turnchat, it won't.

 

[Sarevok]

that persian deal is good!

 

[Strider]

I believe this is exactly what we want to do, we want to give the AI's contact with eachother, and by doing so speed up the tech pace. If we can keep up, were be all the better for it.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I am against this trade.
I will put my arguments later. I'm NIFOS at the moment and need to know some details to explain my POV.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Strider
I believe this is exactly what we want to do, we want to give the AI's contact with eachother, and by doing so speed up the tech pace. If we can keep up, were be all the better for it.

In another thread I read about a large military build-up with knights. In that case, we do NOT want to increase the tech pace. And we do NOT want to make chivalry known in the old world civs. Especially NOT to Egypt.

I would recommend the following trades:
- wm, 117g from England for literature; next donate them polytheism, republic
- education, 4gpt from Persia for contact with England
- invention from Egypt for education, cash, not(!) gpt because we will attack them
- invention to Persia for all the money, wm, etc. we can get from them
- education to the others for everything they have
Thus there still is no contact between old world and new world, chivalry is not known in the old world, and we have everything from everybody.

I would NOT AT ALL trade contacts yet. We might have another brokering possibilty with astronomy, banking, printing press, and gunpowder coming up. We only have to monitor when astronomy is discovered and then do the trades THAT VERY TURN. I suppose, we should stop any turnchat then.

 

[Strider]

We HAVE to trade the contacts as soon as possible, before we lose the chance. Even an AI galley going into our terrority can screw things up for us... demand it to leave, and it might get pushed right where we don't want it. We can not risk it, Egypt is also likely to meet Persia soon anyway, they have galley's that much we know, they have access to the area between on continent and Persia's (and even there's and Persia's). It's to much to risk, for nothing.

We are being offered a total of 70gpt for the contacts, and your saying we should give that offer up? Were be lucky to get that much in the industrial age for techs!!

Chivarly is already known on every continent on the map (except england). Persia knows it, Egypt knows it, and Babylon knows it. That is one representative from each continent.

Also, Tao your trades don't work, Persia has education, so we can not trade it to them. Egypt also has education, so we can't trade it to them either.

 

[Rik Meleet]

After looking at the save I concluded that the only civ that can reach the "Persian continent" are the Indians. I don't think they will soon, but just galley is enough to mess up things for us.

I still would prefer to wait to use our contacts to trade for techs. I think if we position a galley (or a lookout unit) to spot Indian Galleys before they reach the Persian shores will allow us to withhold contacts safely.

Also, Tao your trades don't work, Persia has education,

That was what tao said; "education, 4gpt from Persia for contact with England"

I would certianly withhold contact with the English. We can do whatever we want with them (they have no Iron, thus no pikes) without influencing our reputation. Just a force of 4 knights or 5 knights and a pike are sufficient to capture all their lands (= all their silks).

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
After looking at the save I concluded that the only civ that can reach the "Persian continent" are the Indians. I don't think they will soon, but just galley is enough to mess up things for us.

I still would prefer to wait to use our contacts to trade for techs. I think if we position a galley (or a lookout unit) to spot Indian Galleys before they reach the Persian shores will allow us to withhold contacts safely.

That was what tao said; "education, 4gpt from Persia for contact with England"

I would certianly withhold contact with the English. We can do whatever we want with them (they have no Iron, thus no pikes) without influencing our reputation. Just a force of 4 knights or 5 knights and a pike are sufficient to capture all their lands (= all their silks).

We have Education also.

A war with England would be difficult, and the only bonus would be the silks. The cities would be to corrupt to build anything.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Strider
We HAVE to trade the contacts as soon as possible, before we lose the chance.

I agree.

Even an AI galley going into our terrority can screw things up for us... demand it to leave, and it might get pushed right where we don't want it.

We should switch our brain on before asking any galley to leave.

We can not risk it, Egypt is also likely to meet Persia soon anyway, they have galley's that much we know, they have access to the area between on continent and Persia's (and even there's and Persia's). It's to much to risk, for nothing.

1. Galleys go 3 tiles. With Great Lighthouse (India) 4 tiles.

2. The AI never ever ends a turn in unsafe waters.

3. I could not find any passage from coast to coast in 4 tiles. Maybe I overlooked it. Can you point it out to bolster your claim, please?

We are being offered a total of 70gpt for the contacts, and your saying we should give that offer up? Were be lucky to get that much in the industrial age for techs!!

I said we should go for the money the moment astronomy is discovered.

Chivarly is already known on every continent on the map (except england).

Right.

Persia knows it, Egypt knows it,

Wrong

Also, Tao your trades don't work, Persia has education, so we can not trade it to them. Egypt also has education, so we can't trade it to them either.

Wrong. But Rik melet already said so.

 

[Chieftess]

There's safe passage in our northern area (near New Falcon's Haven). Even though there's ocean, the AI will still cross it. It's only 1 tile.

 

[tao]

Originally posted by Chieftess
There's safe passage in our northern area (near New Falcon's Haven). Even though there's ocean, the AI will still cross it. It's only 1 tile.

Sorry. I was mistaken. Great Lighthouse doesn't add 1 tile to range but allows safe travel at sea. Therefore India can make contact.

I stand corrected and we might trade the contacts to get everything possible.

And I seem to have looked at the 660 save instead of the 720 one.

 

[Strider]

I would recommend downloading the newest save, like I said, both us and Persia has education:

 

[tao]

Of course I had the latest save; I just looked at the wrong one.

Let me try again:
- wm, 124g from England for literature; next donate them polytheism, republic
- invention, 35g, wm from Egypt for education, contact with England
- invention, contacts to Persia for all the money, wm, etc. we can get from them
- "everything to everybody"(except chivalry to Egypt) to get all money and maps and deprive Egypt of valuables it can trade for chivalry

 

[Strider]

Here is an updated one (of mine), should be done in this exact order:

(1)Germany: Gift Education to Germany
(2)Persia: World Map, 64gpt, and 20g for all of our contacts, except the egyptian contact
(3)Egypt: Invention for all of our contacts and 149g
(4)Babylon: World Map, 6gpt, and 50 gold for all of our Contacts...minus the Persian and Egyptian contacts.
(5)England: World map and 120g for all of our contacts except Egypt, Persia, and Babylon
(6)Persia: See what Persia offers for Invention, take it if there is any amount of gpt involved, or if the amount of lump gold is enough.