A Better AI.

[khumak]

They seemed to be in the spirit of other suggestions. If you turn off suggestions, they will not show, that said, they will be removed in the next build. It seems no one liked the explore suggestions.

Explorer automated behavior will still be improved, you just will not get any explore blue circle suggestions.

-Iustus

Can exploring units be changed to prefer tiles with defense bonuses when available? I never set my warriors or scouts to auto because they always die avoidable deaths by traveling open territory when they could be defended by a forested hill. Scouts are especially notorious for this. Since they have a movement rate of 2 they should ALWAYS attempt to end their turn on a forest or hill, preferably a forested hill. A scout that lives can explore a LOT more than a scout that is killed by the first wolf it runs across.

My preference would be:

1. fastest route to any village visible
2. end on highest defense tile that still clears fog
3. maximize amount of fog cleared and movement

 

[Wodan]

Oh are you talking about him not unloading the troops directly into the city and capturing it from the sea? I guess the AI ignores that possibility at the moment...

Yeah, that thing called "amphibious assault".

Are you saying that the AI currently NEVER does this? I'm amazed. Not so much that it doesn't but at myself for never noticing. AI Berserks never attack? Now I'm starting to wonder whether I'm losing it.

Anyway, we should fix this, don't you think? I mean... if this is seriously true, then I should never have more than one weak garrison unit in my coastal cities. I should overload them in the tiles next to the city....

Wodoan

 

[jkp1187]

I've seen this referred to as the "Syrian Doctrine".

[FYI: it's "Sirian" doctrine, after the user of the same name....]

It is true that I don't think I've EVER seen the AI use amphibious attacks -- even when Ragnar (or, for that matter, the Americans,) get their UU built in quantity. Is this a problem with getting the AI to recognize that that certain units are able to make these attacks without penalties? Is this something that can be fixed without consuming too many resources/breaking something else?

This also makes me ask: can the AI perform "smash and grab" attacks with nukes, popping one (or more) nukes into a city then taking it with minimal fighting? Has anyone seen this?

 

[KMadCandy]

i'm interested in this mod but i'm scared to try it. i'm a wuss. i'm afraid to push up the difficulty very much for now (hubby says i should). but i do get so frustrated at how far the AI falls behind and isn't smart about stuff. the mod sounds like exactly what i want as far as making the AI better and smarter and more of a challenge to play against, without giving them a zillion bonuses and making me throw up my hands in frustration by 200 AD.

but i really can't tell from the posts here about how that actually works out at the lower difficulty levels. am i correct in assuming that the changes to the AI's behavior as far as better choices of what to build, what tiles to work, being better at war, etc, improves their performance at all levels, not just the higher ones? it doesn't give them a quadrillion bonuses at noble like the official AI does at deity, it just changes how they play, correct? so i'd be safe to try it and see how i like it?

one thing to note: i'm not good at tech stuff. but it seems like if you don't want to use the mod you just remove some .dll file and then the mod isn't active, so i'd not have to go through an uninstall etc if i'm not ready for it yet, is that true?

seeing the comments that folks had to turn down their difficulty a notch a build or two ago makes me go most of the folks that post here frequently play on high difficulty levels, which is 100% logical, you want (and are ready for) the most challenging games. i mean no offense to those who play so high, i hope to be among you some day, but the fact is i'm not yet. i just wanted to specifically ask about how it works for the *lower* levels, since that's not talked about here (at least in the 20 or so latest pages i read, admittedly not all of the thread).

 

[primem0ver]

Blake... I was referred to you by Impaler from this sight. Looks like a nice mod and I will probably try it out but I have a question about AI programming and Impaler said you were the guy to talk to:

I am looking to get into Civ4 AI programming a little as I am now the main C++ developer for a team developing a mod. I basically just need to know where to start (ok... a little more would help but is not necessary). To quote the question(s) from my original thread:

OK I have two questions about the SDK and AI programming.

First... I know there are several classes that handle a lot of the AI stuff. Is this all? I am a mod developer who is looking to start understanding how to change the AI behaves/works and suggests so I need to know where to start.

Second...

I have made some new improvements that do not increase commerce or food or anything of the sort so the AI does not currently know that they can help him. (Two new kinds of improvements that will help him for military reasons). I know how I will help the AI evaluate whether the improvement will help him.

What I don't know is where is the code that changes the value the AI places on the improvement. Example:

if the AI sees that the an improvement is helpful, it highlights it blue for the human player. WHERE is the code for this? I want to be able to recommend a build for the human AND the AI!

Any pointers would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Tiberias]

but i really can't tell from the posts here about how that actually works out at the lower difficulty levels. am i correct in assuming that the changes to the AI's behavior as far as better choices of what to build, what tiles to work, being better at war, etc, improves their performance at all levels, not just the higher ones? it doesn't give them a quadrillion bonuses at noble like the official AI does at deity, it just changes how they play, correct? so i'd be safe to try it and see how i like it?

As you suspected, it only changes computer player behavior, not bonuses. The AI is MUCH better, and in general the computer player will behave in much more sensible, logical ways. In fact, it's getting so good that the current discussion is on whether or not to adjust the computer bonuses, which might be too high, but no changes to bonuses just yet.

That said, the bonuses for the human player at lower levels are high enough that the game should still be winnable, even for starting players. I surreptitiously installed this on my younger sister's computer, and she was still able to cruise to an easy win on Settler difficulty on her first game. The computer's improved thinking ability is still there, but they can't match the human player's resources. That all changes once you hit medium levels of difficulty, like Noble, where the computer player can take full advantage of its improved AI.

one thing to note: i'm not good at tech stuff. but it seems like if you don't want to use the mod you just remove some .dll file and then the mod isn't active, so i'd not have to go through an uninstall etc if i'm not ready for it yet, is that true?

Correct, just the one .dll, goes in My Documents\My Games\Warlords\CustomAssets, and all it takes to remove it is deleting the one .dll. No mod-type fiddling to deal with. It's compatible with some mods, but not with those that use their own custom .dll (e.g., doesn't work with Fall from Heaven, I don't think).

 

[snoochems]

Nice mod guys. Keep up the good work.

 

[KMadCandy]

That said, the bonuses for the human player at lower levels are high enough that the game should still be winnable, even for starting players. I surreptitiously installed this on my younger sister's computer, and she was still able to cruise to an easy win on Settler difficulty on her first game. The computer's improved thinking ability is still there, but they can't match the human player's resources. That all changes once you hit medium levels of difficulty, like Noble, where the computer player can take full advantage of its improved AI.

yay! that's exactly the kind of personal verification i needed. even tho you did do a really sneaky thing to your sister! thank goodness i was the oldest so i got to be sneaky to my little brothers.

 

[Roland Johansen]

Another screenshot to show some strange AI behaviour (latest version, 8 jan. , but started the game with an older version). This time it has nothing to do with the governor.

There is a spot with 5 furs to the north of two AI and the spot has been unclaimed for a long time, a really long time. Now, I can understand it a bit as it isn't a great position, up in the northern tundra regions with no food resource in the neighbourhood. But then again, 5 furs! I would have claimed the area long ago just for the happiness (2 happiness with a market, 1 happiness without) and the trading options (4 furs to trade for other resources or gold per turn).

By the way, the cities close to the resource are better developed than it seems as I haven't viewed them in a long time. But I have seen the area with the furs very recently (2 turns ago or something like that).

So, it's 1220 AD, I'm about to develop paper (and going for printing press) and this resource is still unclaimed.

AI hates furs.JPG

 

[Mutineer]

KMadCandy, it is my undestanding that improvement of AI is the most notisable on average levels, somewhere from Noble to Monarch.

Main difference currently is AI managing cities and cities development better, leading to a generally better play. So, it is probably execly what are you looking for.

Later changes like making some AI bonuses flat across the border and reducing some of them would be in a line with it to.

To others note, I found that idea of giving AI flat 50% bonus to upgrading across the border is a good idea.
Current deity 5% cost or suggested 20% cost is way to low.

5% mean AI pay 0.15 GP/Shield, lol. 20% = 0.6gp/shield. That really rediculous, comparing with Human 3gp/shield.
Upgrades should not be free ticket to supper army for no cost.

Generally one think I dislike about how civ handle dificulty levels.
Great increase of civics or city upkeep cost with dificulty was a big mistake.
It idd made different civics and traits supperusefull on one level and absolutly useless or even harmfull on other.
I do not mind game to change a bit with dif livels to keep it a bit fresh, but it should not change complitly and unballance base of the game.

Firaxis fix it with paches, then they drop this increase, but still some remain.

There still units upkeep cost, which I believe should not change with dif level to, as it effect civics usefullness.

 

[Amao]

1/8 Build, so the "=== Better AI ===" is no longer there? How can I tell I have loaded the dll or not? Thanks!

 

[DrewBledsoe]

yay! that's exactly the kind of personal verification i needed. even tho you did do a really sneaky thing to your sister! thank goodness i was the oldest so i got to be sneaky to my little brothers.

That sounds....so....cute...my god am I really getting that old?

 

[Pfeffersack]

1/8 Build, so the "=== Better AI ===" is no longer there? How can I tell I have loaded the dll or not? Thanks!

I still get it (installed as mod - Location of the .dll: in ".../Warlords/Mods/BetterAI/Assets")

 

[DrewBledsoe]

Oh btw, even posting 100% upgrade doesn't make things "equal" for the plyr and the AI as every lvl above noble, the ai has a troop production bonus, which is taken into account when upgrading troops..eg. if the ai only needs 90% hammers to produce a certain troop, then that upgrade (in terms of gold)is reflected in the upgrade.

 

[Doomed_UK]

OK, back on the 1/1 build.
I have a defensive pact with mansa.
Vikings declare war on me (and therefore mansa).
Vikings roll over 2 of my citys on the mainland.
There is a small island only occupied my mansa and I, I bribe vikings for peace by giving him one of my citiys on this island, which becomes vacant of all units.
Mansa takes a small stack up to near this city.
Mansa stops and watchs empty city.
Mansa continues to watch.
Vikings populate city with defenders.
Mansa goes to peace.

Why did Mansa not take the empty city?

 

[Ralgar]

The Mod is save game compatible, isn't it? So just try the 1/8 build out if Mansa do the same thing.

 

[Doomed_UK]

That save has gone now unfortunatly. I knew I had lost by the time the vikings declared war (he had riflemen and I had longbowmen) and I was just going through the motions to see what happened.
Aztecs got a culture win in the end.

 

[jkp1187]

That save has gone now unfortunatly. I knew I had lost by the time the vikings declared war (he had riflemen and I had longbowmen) and I was just going through the motions to see what happened.
Aztecs got a culture win in the end.

What about autosave?


I just started a game (Epic/small/techtonics/8 civs) last night....so far, everyone is somewhat peaceful with me (I lucked out and started on my own large-ish continent, but within galley communication with a larger continent with three civs, incl. Montezuma,) but so far it looks like a war between Incas and Japan has already been fought...and apparently one on a more distant continent between Stalin and Mansa.

 

[jkp1187]

OK, back on the 1/1 build.
I have a defensive pact with mansa.
Vikings declare war on me (and therefore mansa).
Vikings roll over 2 of my citys on the mainland.
There is a small island only occupied my mansa and I, I bribe vikings for peace by giving him one of my citiys on this island, which becomes vacant of all units.
Mansa takes a small stack up to near this city.
Mansa stops and watchs empty city.
Mansa continues to watch.
Vikings populate city with defenders.
Mansa goes to peace.

Why did Mansa not take the empty city?

What was the culture situation like?

Is it possible that the AI (specifically, Mansa,) (a) doesn't want to take a city because it would be overwhelmed by someone else's culture (i.e., yours,) and (b) doesn't want to pillage a city due to personality flavors?

 

[Doomed_UK]

a) Was not covered by my cultural area

b) Don't know. Mansa only took one city during the game, and that was a city of his he accidently vacated (except for 1 longbowman) to pick off a injured viking unit.

as for an autosave, I still have it set to only keep 5 saves, so that auto save went days ago.