A bit disappointed

[Baldyr]

The Crusade idea has merit, but it should be generic to fit into RFC. It could be something like: All civs with Religion X declares war on the civ controlling Shrine X(or holy city X), if that civ also has another religion than Religion X.

But this generic feature is already present in the form of a Crusade random event (right?) and the Apostolic Palace fueled religious wars. Perhaps one of these could be modded instead to fit the demand?

The historical Crusades were a total fiasco and doesn't deserve anything unique like Conquerors. It is a parentheses in history. So is Israel.

While I agree on Israel, the OP actually requested the historical Crusades as a part of RFC. Since I've created a scenario event scripting tool I was merely pointing out that it can be done. (It would of course be possible to do the mod scenario as regular Python code also. If anyone needs help - give a holler.)

But sure, I agree that it shouldn't be a part of standard RFC - which it never will since there won't be any more patches. I wouldn't advice anyone of doing whatever mod scenarios they like by adding historical events to RFC though. If nothing else - its creative!

 

[Baldyr]

They already have the advantage of having cities very close to Jerusalem in which they can rapidly whip some camel archers. Most Europeans must travel a lot of distance to send reinforcements to the city. Not to mention the camel archers movement bonus in deserts.

Also, the Arabs are already very powerful in medieval times compared to the Europeans. The Europeans become the world leaders in the Rennaisance, but before that the Arabs rule the world. (or the Persians in 3000 BC start).

The monetary award is the Church of Nativity, which is at max of 20 gold very early on as Christianity spreads fast into Europe from the start. I almost forget the Temple of Solomon, which give some more additional coins (not much in most games).

All valid points, and I'm not gonna argue with you since I don't currently have time to design any mod scenarios. (The actual programming I'm already doing, so that I could help with.) What events would make it into such a scenario and the specifics of those would be up to the person designing it. I was just throwing my two cents into the wishing well...

 

[Brew]

In 600AD Persia actually was on the brink of collapse from decades of war with the Byzantines - that is the only reason the Arabs had such an easy time with them. I think they are better represented as independent Siraz (though Isfahan and Tisfun/Baghdad might be nice to have too).

While there may be a lot of Judeo-Christian haters out there, the Crusades were one of the more important events in history; they are really what brought Europe out of the dark ages. They exposed Europe to high Arab civilization and thereby introduced them to advanced technologies and culture, and also reintroduced them to classical learning. Also, Israel, while maybe not compliant with international law, was an independent kingdom (along with Judah) for a millennium (briefly interrupted by the Babylonians) until the Romans. It also spawned Judaism and Christianity, two of the worlds largest religions. You might also have heard that its modern existence is the basis for one of the most divisive conflicts in the world, not to mention one of the longest wars in modern history. Not quite what I'd call a parentheses in world history but hey, that's just me.

Still, I don't see the utility in a major civ of Israel. A playable Byzantines though would make the Crusades a real possibility. As it is, not being able to send units through Constantinople makes it nearly impossible.

 

[Baldyr]

A playable Byzantines though would make the Crusades a real possibility. As it is, not being able to send units through Constantinople makes it nearly impossible.

In my Rise of Russia mod scenario the first "quest" (Trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks) was actually to get open borders with Byzantium. I managed this by editing the AI Wars module with some Python code - you needed to declare war on Byzantium in order to get open borders (helpful to get trade routes for you capital Kiev) as part of a peace treaty. (War/peace with Byzantium was rather random.) One of the UHV conditions was actually to control the Bosporus, by the way.

But I might incorporate playable Byzantium in a future version though. My point is rather that open borders with Byzantium is a possibility even if you can't engage them in diplomacy. It could simply be a feature that is part of the Crusades scenario. (I've actually made a Action for PyScenario that can be used for this. It will be a part of the next update, coming shortly.)

As nobody seems interested in picking up the reigns on this idea, I might eventually end up posting a sample PyScenario script making up a Crusades scenario. Just as an example that everybody can edit themselves to suit their own tastes and sensibilities...

 

[Baldyr]

In 600AD Persia actually was on the brink of collapse from decades of war with the Byzantines - that is the only reason the Arabs had such an easy time with them. I think they are better represented as independent Siraz (though Isfahan and Tisfun/Baghdad might be nice to have too).

You know that the WBS file (the actual scenario) is readily editable? If you manage to figure out what the tile coordinates would be for Isfahan and Tisfun, then you could simply open up the WBS and search for Siraz. You should be able to replicate the city entry from the Siraz tile onto the other tiles by copy-pasting the content - and simply change the actual city name. It really is as simple as that.

The actual documentation for editing the WBS can be found in the Modiki. There is no reason why anyone couldn't learn how to make their own edits to the RFC scenario files. (I completely remodeled the map from Scandinavia to the Bering Strait myself.)

 

[nody]

Nody, stop molesting my avatar with your eyes!

Not only my eyes...

I had to clean my screen several times, already...

 

[Brew]

@ Baldyr - Thanks for the tips. I opened the 600AD map with notepad and searched for Siraz, but the program didn't find it. I tried others like Aksum, but no results. I must be doing something wrong. Any ideas?

p.s. I'd just use Py Scenario as there's a bunch of stuff I want to do, but I'm hooked on Dawn of Civ and can't get myself to go back to regular RFC

 

[Baldyr]

@ Baldyr - Thanks for the tips. I opened the 600AD map with notepad and searched for Siraz, but the program didn't find it. I tried others like Aksum, but no results. I must be doing something wrong. Any ideas?

You're using some crap like Windows 7, I'm sure. I wouldn't know how to operate something like that...

I tried it myself and couldn't find Siraz either, so it must have been built in the game you were referring to. But I did find Aksum...

Spoiler :

BeginPlot
	x=72,y=29
	TerrainType=TERRAIN_PLAINS
	PlotType=1
	BeginUnit
		UnitType=UNIT_SPEARMAN, UnitOwner=28
	EndUnit	
	BeginUnit
		UnitType=UNIT_ARCHER, UnitOwner=28
	EndUnit	
[B]	BeginCity
		CityOwner=28
		CityName=Aksum
		CityPopulation=2
		BuildingType=BUILDING_ETHIOPIAN_STELE
		ReligionType=RELIGION_CHRISTIANITY
		Player28Culture=50
	EndCity[/B]
EndPlot

p.s. I'd just use Py Scenario as there's a bunch of stuff I want to do, but I'm hooked on Dawn of Civ and can't get myself to go back to regular RFC

Using scripting (either with Python or PyScenario) is actually suboptimal to adding content directly to the WBS file. Also, any spawns and such only happen at the end of the first turn, so it wouldn't even the same thing.

But you could always petition for Leoreth to include content to the Dawn of Civilization modmod.

 

[Brew]

It turns out I was just being dumb. Shiraz is "sirajis" on the 600ad map. Must have been typing aksum wrong or something. Anyway you're right - it is very easy to do. I spent hours playing around rearranging the start map; bonuses, cities, buildings, religions, units,...fantastic! Now if I can figure out how to adjust later spawning cites and resources......

 

[Baldyr]

It turns out I was just being dumb. Shiraz is "sirajis" on the 600ad map. Must have been typing aksum wrong or something. Anyway you're right - it is very easy to do. I spent hours playing around rearranging the start map; bonuses, cities, buildings, religions, units,...fantastic!

Welcome to the world of Civ modding!

Now if I can figure out how to adjust later spawning cites and resources......

For that you need Python code - or you could go with PyScenario. I gather you're modding the Dawn of Civilization modmod? Because you could create and develop your PyScenario script in regular RFC and use it as is in Dawn once there is support for this. (I wouldn't be too hard for me or Leoreth to merge the two projects once both are released in somewhat finished or "stabile" versions. Also, I don't know what changes Leoreth has done to the actual scenario files, if any.)

But right now you probably wanna learn some Python. Or petition Leoreth to incorporate some of your ideas into Dawn.