A cheater?
- Thread starter Matrix
- Start date
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
Originally posted by Barker
Maybe he had a really fast comp
I tried using 220 volts on my computer and got slightly better results.
MadScot
Brandy's back!
Regarding the issue of "innocent until proven guilty"
Matrix spotted a suspicious save game (or was notified by someone)
He, as GOTM admin reviewed it and decided there was a possible case to answer.
The game was opened to study by a "jury" of the accussed peers.
The accused has not been presumed guilty, any more than any other accused person.
But if he fails to defend himself in front of the evidence, then a conclusion may be drawn.
IRL, the identity of the accused is most certainly NOT protected.
And in any case, inspection of the save game would have revealed the identity. After all, there weren't two such rapid finishes, were there?
Matrix spotted a suspicious save game (or was notified by someone)
He, as GOTM admin reviewed it and decided there was a possible case to answer.
The game was opened to study by a "jury" of the accussed peers.
The accused has not been presumed guilty, any more than any other accused person.
But if he fails to defend himself in front of the evidence, then a conclusion may be drawn.
IRL, the identity of the accused is most certainly NOT protected.
And in any case, inspection of the save game would have revealed the identity. After all, there weren't two such rapid finishes, were there?
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
I think it's obvious he adjusted the cost factors in the mod.bic file. Made it so everything was real easy for him (fast growth, everything was cheap for him to build, fast research). And adjusted the cost factor so it took the AI forever to grow and build stuff. The cities cannot be explained by goody huts. The first one, sure, but not any after that. One rule about whether or not you can get a settler from a goody hut is that you must have less than or equal the average # cities of all the other AI.
In my current HOF game, I got 11 cities by 1500 B.C. But I got that by starting on all grassland, getting a free settler at 3700 BC, capturing 2 cities with chariots, building the pyramids at 2070 BC from a great leader I got, and building ICS style. Granted my starting position didn't have much bonus resources nearby, it still would be impossible to get 11 cities by the date he got them at.
In my current HOF game, I got 11 cities by 1500 B.C. But I got that by starting on all grassland, getting a free settler at 3700 BC, capturing 2 cities with chariots, building the pyramids at 2070 BC from a great leader I got, and building ICS style. Granted my starting position didn't have much bonus resources nearby, it still would be impossible to get 11 cities by the date he got them at.
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Sometimes it is - name supression is granted quite frequently for a period.
And more often than not, for some "crimes" people find themselves "labelled", even if they are subsequently found innocent. Look at sex offenders, for example (and NO I'm not saying that cheating in the GOTM is anything akin to a sex offense or any other causal link!)
I think that on the evidence that the person cheated. However, was there malicious intent to deceive, or was it a mistake?
Anyway:
What is gained by publishing the name of the suspected offender, prior to reaching a consensus that he/she has cheated? I don't see any, barring the ability to go back and check previous save games. However, I think that you should be able to make a decision from a single game file.
What is lost? That the person has been branded a "cheater" in the public forum before he/she has had a chance to defend him/herself. No-one will ever want to participate in a PBEM, multiplayer or similar game with this person again. And it may be something as "innocent" as having forgotten to uninstall a mod.
Cruise
Warlord
It is naïve to think he was not aware of himself cheating. Come on dude..... this is just getting silly talking about how to reach a consensus. It's only a friggin game ffs.
What's next, getting lawyers involved?
What's next, getting lawyers involved?
Cruise
Warlord
What i am saying is, it's going a bit too far and it's a bit too serious to even compare it with something IRL. Here it's a lot less complicated. Please don't take the former post too personal i just found it somewhat ridiculous.
About him carrying on, i don't see why not. And while we're at it let's change the rules so that everyone can and may freely abuse all known bugs, let all possible cheats run rampant throughout the game only in order to reach the ultimate goal: Get as many points as possible.
About him carrying on, i don't see why not. And while we're at it let's change the rules so that everyone can and may freely abuse all known bugs, let all possible cheats run rampant throughout the game only in order to reach the ultimate goal: Get as many points as possible.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
ainwood,
If it will make you feel any happier we could just discuss the already publicly posted game under that name in the GOTM07 submissions.
Perhaps you could take the time to have a look at it and give us your thoughts on that already publicly available game. Your insight may help us determine what has gone on here.
Thanks,
CB
If it will make you feel any happier we could just discuss the already publicly posted game under that name in the GOTM07 submissions.
Perhaps you could take the time to have a look at it and give us your thoughts on that already publicly available game. Your insight may help us determine what has gone on here.
Thanks,
CB
Taé Shala
Prince
So what will we do if he is guilty?
I would say let him play the GotM of this month and future games like all of us.
Delete the cheated games from the Gotm-Rankings.
OK?
I would say let him play the GotM of this month and future games like all of us.
Delete the cheated games from the Gotm-Rankings.
OK?
Green Light
Just lurking
Originally posted by Sullla
I'm sorry to say this, but when I opened up the savegame of this player from GOTM7, it's clear that there was cheating going on in that game, as well. Every wonder built by the player (NEVER would happen on Deity) at outrageously early dates: the Colossus in 3000BC (at which time he has 3 cities - not likely), Pyramids in 2430BC, Oracle in 2190BC, Great Library in 1475BC, Lighthouse in the SAME CITY in 1400BC (!) It's also rather... suspicious that this player was at war with Russia, Germany, Persia, Rome, and England simultaneously and was advancing on all fronts (in a Deity game, no less). Open up the game and check it out for yourself, if you don't believe me. I suspect something similar in GOTM8, though no savegame has been posted for that yet. It's very disappointing that someone would think they have to cheat in the GOTM.
Thats so obivious cheating, that makes me wonder why some here still think he might be innocent
No way would anyone get all those wonders done so early in deity. And dont judge my opinion by my post count, i have been playing these since civ 1, just new here at cfc.
Very much thumbs down for such a cheater.
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Would anyone have looked at the GOTM7 file if the name of the suspected cheater had not been released? We could have all looked back at the "history" after it had been agreed that a .sav file was the result of cheating, and then the name had been released.
And what say you had looked at this file, and thought that the person was cheating? What would you have done? Personally, I wouldn't have posted it on the forum, I would probably have PM'd Matrix with my reasons as to why I thought the person was cheating. What we don't want is a rush of "this person is cheating" accusations. There's been (unfounded) accusations here before, but IIRC they stopped-short of naming names.
Sorry, but I am yet to see a convincing argument for publishing the name.
That's exactly what we try to avoid (and no-one seems to listen to me, despite my high(er) postcount
)
VAK
Chieftain
English
--------------------
Good afternoon.
We Beg pardon for my bad english.
In than strictly problem. I play in CIV since 1996 and much what about it knows.
I did not break nor what rules GOTM. And where is written, with what velocity possible to build the city.
And if someone play better You, that this does not signify that he cheater. And it is impossible declare the cheater of any lucky player.
So I think all your claim groundless.
?????? ????.
? ??? ?????????? ????????. ? ????? ? CIV ? 1996 ? ????? ???? ? ??? ????.
? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? GOTM. ? ??? ????????, ? ????? ????????? ????? ??????? ??????.
? ???? ???-?? ?????? ????? ???, ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?????. ? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ??????.
??????? ? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????????.
--------------------
Good afternoon.
We Beg pardon for my bad english.
In than strictly problem. I play in CIV since 1996 and much what about it knows.
I did not break nor what rules GOTM. And where is written, with what velocity possible to build the city.
And if someone play better You, that this does not signify that he cheater. And it is impossible declare the cheater of any lucky player.
So I think all your claim groundless.
?????? ????.
? ??? ?????????? ????????. ? ????? ? CIV ? 1996 ? ????? ???? ? ??? ????.
? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? GOTM. ? ??? ????????, ? ????? ????????? ????? ??????? ??????.
? ???? ???-?? ?????? ????? ???, ?? ??? ?? ?????? ??? ?? ?????. ? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?????? ?????????? ??????.
??????? ? ????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????????.
- Joined
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- 30,080
VAK,
Perhaps you could post the .bic file that you play with?
Others;
Isnt the .bic info stored in the .sav file now? If so, cant you look in the .sav and see what the production in each of the cities is? (eg. How many shields are needed for a settler, the amount of pop. Points lost when producing a settler etc)?
Perhaps you could post the .bic file that you play with?
Others;
Isnt the .bic info stored in the .sav file now? If so, cant you look in the .sav and see what the production in each of the cities is? (eg. How many shields are needed for a settler, the amount of pop. Points lost when producing a settler etc)?
Exsanguination
No longer here
Does the PowerBar work with 1.21/1.29?
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
That is written in the rules files.
Valeri, did you by any chance play with a modified version of the game? If not, just tell us where the settler came from that founded Memphis in 3500 BC, since the earliest possible date to produce one is in 3250 BC.
Haven't posted here for a while, also because of my birthday.
First of all, I shouldn't have revealed his name at first, but then again, is that so important?
The accused can't speak English very well: ai.
Anyway, the fact that he might have forgotten to uninstall a mod is unlikely. Even then: that's his fault and the result remains invalid. It only applies on the fact whether he may continue to play on with the GOTM. I think not since his defence is rather weak, yet.
He could attach his civ3mod.bic but how the heck can we know it's even his file?
Sorry, but he's guilty as hell, until proven innocent. We can't wait for this; it's already the 14th and I want to post the results this evening.
First of all, I shouldn't have revealed his name at first, but then again, is that so important?
The accused can't speak English very well: ai.
Anyway, the fact that he might have forgotten to uninstall a mod is unlikely. Even then: that's his fault and the result remains invalid. It only applies on the fact whether he may continue to play on with the GOTM. I think not since his defence is rather weak, yet.
He could attach his civ3mod.bic but how the heck can we know it's even his file?
Sorry, but he's guilty as hell, until proven innocent. We can't wait for this; it's already the 14th and I want to post the results this evening.
Ribannah
Fighter Druid
Matrix,
It's obvious that his result can't count, so go ahead (I'm not in the results btw because I hadn't finished in time).
But I think it's also important to make him understand what is wrong with his submission, now that he has showed up.
Given his location, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an illegal version of the game, copied from a 'friend' who had made some changes to make such a hard game easier for the human player.
It's obvious that his result can't count, so go ahead (I'm not in the results btw because I hadn't finished in time
).But I think it's also important to make him understand what is wrong with his submission, now that he has showed up.
Given his location, I wouldn't be surprised if he had an illegal version of the game, copied from a 'friend' who had made some changes to make such a hard game easier for the human player.
Taé Shala
Prince
True.
So behind the "iron coat" are mostly illegal copies?
Maybe we should send him a normal .bic file and let him play future Gotms normal.
We could see him as having a "yellow Card" like in Soccer.
MAybe all this is a mistake...
I have to agree with the comment of moving on. Enough time has been given for a decent rebuttal, and it seems like nothing substantial came from it. His results should be removed from the tables.
As to whether or not he should be allowed to participate in future GOTM's, I have no problem with that as long as a proper version of the game is used with no mods.
As to whether or not he should be allowed to participate in future GOTM's, I have no problem with that as long as a proper version of the game is used with no mods.
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