A Couple of Noob Questions

[Zayle79]

Hi! I'm Zayle. I found a $5 download for Civ III and thought it'd be nice to have it. So, here I am, with no Civ experience beyond the Civ Rev demo (and beyond that, no strategy game experience save a bit of AoE II), and no manual to go by for a very complex game. I started a game just to try to figure it out, and succeeded in moving units, attacking cities and other units, negotiating, and producing stuff (units, buildings, etc.).

So, since I can guess this type of topic pops up often, I'll be brief. Firstly, how do you manage your civ's economy? I tried simply birthing several workers and automating them; is that basically it? I've also tried attacking other cities; does this give the other city an advantage? 'Cause I've had conscript warriors beat veteran hoplites when defending heir city.

Err...I guess I'd just like a crash course in the basics. I've got the very basic basics, but you know what I mean. Give me what I should be reading from a manual if I had one.

 

[vmxa]

Firstly, how do you manage your civ's economy? I tried simply birthing several workers and automating them; is that basically it? I've also tried attacking other cities; does this give the other city an advantage? 'Cause I've had conscript warriors beat veteran hoplites when defending heir city.

Err...I guess I'd just like a crash course in the basics. I've got the very basic basics, but you know what I mean. Give me what I should be reading from a manual if I had one.

It is best to not automate workers as the AI will not use them effectively, nor effieciently. There is a thread by Cracker on Opening Moves that coves that topic.

The idea is to not waste worker turns early in the game. They are a big key to improving your empire.

Attacking does give some benefit to the defenders as they will have their units fortified. Fortified units gain a boost on their defensive value. If they have a wall or the townis size 7 or larger they get another boost to defense.

If you attack across rivers that further boost their defense.

Hoplites should pretty much never attack. They have an attack value of 1. That is as low as any unit. They are defenders and have a defense of 3. That is the highest defense in the early part of the game.

 

[vmxa]

We have many articles on playing the game in the War Academy as well as in the Strategy Forum.

You can alos read some of the training SG's in the SG forum. There is a sticky thread with a list of the better training games. Lots of good info is discussed in the lower level SG's. Probably Monarch or Regent is a place to look.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Welcome to the forums.

I'll start with a few basics. I'm not the best either.

First, don't automate your workers! It adds to the micro to direct them manually, but I guarantee you will do it better than the computer will. The very general rule is to mine grasslands (green flat land) and irrigate plains (brown flat land). Delay hills and mountains early on, it takes a long time to improve them. Road every tile your cities work, that gives commerce.

I would build a few warriors to explore the neighborhood and pop goody huts - you can get good stuff. Build a granary early in your first city. After it reaches size four or five, start expanding. The more cities you have, the better! In the early game, I would build one worker per city, then, when your expansion phase is over, build a few more workers.

I would try to tech for either Republic or Monarchy to switch your government. I prefer Republic, but some really like Monarchy. I usually trade for Alphabet and immediately start researching Writing to start for Republic.

Don't be afraid to trade technologies unless you're really getting shafted. Your only aiding one of many opponents and benefitting yourself. A lot of beginners don't like to trade techs and it hurts them.

Try to get as many luxuries as you can - the happiness will help. Getting Iron and Horses is vital for building decent units.

When you start, don't build early wonders. This is a common beginner problem. You want as large an empire as you can get. Your first few games, don't build the Great Library. It can be very powerful if you know how to handle it, but it's important to learn the game without it. Also, on low levels, it's nearly useless. All AI's will trade the techs to you anyway.

This site has a lot of resources. There are a reference charts for the game as well. Click on Civ III at the top of the screen. However, some of the older guides may be obsolete. I highly recommend vmxa's guide to a regent game, where he takes you through a regent game. It's near the top in the strategy guides thread. Best learning tool there is, IMHO.

Don't neglect your military. The AI will attack you (or you them).

Hope this does for a start.

 

[Raliuven]

Just speaking to economy, there are a couple of things to watch out for:

1. Build roads - roads add 1 gpt per tile (so long as you are working the tile). Corruption can/will reduce this benefit, but you will get a solid base from your core.

2. Speaking of cores, not sure what version you are playing, but if it is vanilla or PTW, then you can set up two cores of cities - one with the palace, one with the forgotten palace. That will greatly increase income. If you are playing conquest, then you can't set up a second core.

3. Work tiles next to rivers - tiles that have a river running along one edge will have a +1 gpt, or +2 gpt with a road.

4. Hook up luxuries so you don't have to use the luxury slider - though at chieftain/warlord this probably isn't an issue. But if you work a tile with a luxury or strategic resource, it usually provides greater commerce.

5. At chieftain/warlord, there is a temptation to build every building possible. But be careful - most buildings have a maintenance associated with it - usually 1 or 2 gpt. But build enough of these, and even a robust economy will fall into the red.

6. Depending on your government, your unit support may also eat into your economy. Check F3 (military advisor) to see max # of units allowed and how much you are paying for upkeep. If you are in despotism or monarchy, you will have a healthy unit support and low cost (1 gpt/unit) for going over the limit. If you are a republic or democracy, you will have a low unit support and high cost (2 gpt/unit) for going over.

7. Talking about governments - republic will generate more money than monarchy, so if you are not maintaining a big army, then you will make more money in republic (or democracy for that matter).

 

[Zayle79]

Thanks. I also found a the manual on a PDF on the web; that helped too. Now that I get how the game actually works, a couple of questions -- I'm still fairly ignorant.

1) How do you work tiles? Are they automatically worked so long as they're in the city's cultural borders? How do improvements (mines, irrigation, etc.) fit into that?

2) In my expenses, I see "unit cost". What is that, exactly?

3) How large a garrison is suggested for cities?

4) Is it generally recommended to increase science and entertainment budgets or leave them at default? Is a high entertainment budget needed to keep citizens happy?

5) How can I optimize my workers to work as efficiently as possible? How many per city should I have?

 

[Ataxerxes]

Thanks. I also found a the manual on a PDF on the web; that helped too. Now that I get how the game actually works, a couple of questions -- I'm still fairly ignorant.

1) How do you work tiles? Are they automatically worked so long as they're in the city's cultural borders? How do improvements (mines, irrigation, etc.) fit into that?

2) In my expenses, I see "unit cost". What is that, exactly?

3) How large a garrison is suggested for cities?

4) Is it generally recommended to increase science and entertainment budgets or leave them at default? Is a high entertainment budget needed to keep citizens happy?

5) How can I optimize my workers to work as efficiently as possible? How many per city should I have?

1. The city works tiles based on population. A city with a population of 1 will work 1 tile plus the center city square, population 2 will work 2 tiles plus the city squares. Improvements make those tiles they work give more food, coin, production. The more excess food, the faster the city grows.

2. Unit cost - each unit costs 1 gold. Depending upon civics, each city "supports" a certain number of units, making that number of units not cost gold. Example: You have 12 units and your cities support 10 units. 2 Gold is subtracted from you treasury each turn. Republic (my favorite government) costs 2 gold each turn for each unit over what the cities support.

3. No simple answer. In Despotism, Monarchy, etc. each garrison unit makes one unhappy citizen content. Basically, whatever is needed to make that city safe. If you run Republic or Democracy and don't give right of passage to anybody, your interior cities may not need any garrison. On the borders of your empire, you probably need a few per city. Also, have enough military nearby to repel an attack.

4. Don't leave them at default. Only use the entertainment slider if you need it to keep several cities from revolting. Rather than use the entertainment slider, hook up luxury resources and build markets if needed (and you have more than 2 luxuries). Getting more luxuries often determines my early victims. The AI charges an arm and a leg for luxury trades (Unless you're strong enough to demand them). Generally, run the science slider as high as possible. When there's one or two turns left to finish researching, reduce the science slider as much as possible and still research the tech in one or two turns. This generates a lot of gold. However, even with 10 or 20% research, a tech will still be reseached in 40 turns minimum. I often research Writing first with very low research % to build up gold and then take off. Also gives me time to pick up techs from trades and huts.

5. Manually direct the workers. Rule of thumb is 1.5 workers per city - perhaps 1.25 per city if Industrious. As a general rule, improve the flat lands first - mine green, irrigate brown. Despotism penalizes you for doing otherwise and this gives you a good balance of food and production. Get out of Despotism ASAP to Monarchy or Republic.

 

[Raliuven]

1) How do you work tiles? Are they automatically worked so long as they're in the city's cultural borders? How do improvements (mines, irrigation, etc.) fit into that?

One point though it may be too late to be of any use, but just in case it is not completely clear:

A citizen is part of your city population. When you see a city size 6, that means you have 6 citizens in your city. Each citizen can work one tile within your city radius. The tile the city is on is always worked for 'free'.

A worker is a unit that runs around improving/fixing everything.

A worker can be put in a city as a unit - you will see it on the map and you can move it back out. You usually only do this if you are moving through the city or for protection.

However, a worker can also be added (JOINED) to a city to increase the number of citizens in the city - and then the citizen can work a tile. However, once JOINED, you can't just remove the worker. He is now part of the city. Of course you can get him out by building a worker, and then you will see that your number of citizens has been reduced by 1.

 

[CommandoBob]

Hi! I'm Zayle. I found a $5 download for Civ III and thought it'd be nice to have it. So, here I am, with no Civ experience beyond the Civ Rev demo (and beyond that, no strategy game experience save a bit of AoE II), and no manual to go by for a very complex game.

Zayle, welcome to the Forums.



Some Random Hints
Play a game or two on Chieftain, the easiest level, to get a feel for how the controls work and where to find things in-game. Then consider moving up to a more difficult level.

Wonders are nice, but don't get fixated on them. You have to have the UN to win a diplomatic victory, but it is useless when you want to conquer the world. Only build the ones you need. Or let the AI build it and then capture that city.

In the same vein, don't build every city improvement you can. Build only what you need. In the very corrupt cities (ones that have a lot more red shields than blue shields) don't build any improvements at all. Instead, build workers, settlers and artillery pieces, since artillery units do not benefit from a barracks.

Except at the first of the game, use barracks to build veteran units. They attack and defend better than regular units and cost the same to produce.

Trade Reputation
Make trades carefully. Your trading reputation, how well you keep your word on trade deals in-game, is very important to the AI and a lot of things can break it and make it hardert to trade later. The hazard is when you trade a luxury or resource or promise to pay gold per turn (gpt) to the AI. For these deals, you must have a road network that connects your capital to their capital. If not roads, then a sea route. But, if an enemy AI or barbarian blocks that trade route over the In-Between Turn (IBT) then the trade deal is broken and the AI holds you responsible.

If the deal is just a tech swap (Iron Working for Alpahbet), it happens then and both of you benefit from the deal immediately. The same is true when you pay a lump sum of gold to buy a tech; you gain that knowledge then.

If you are in war and make peace and then reattack before the 20 turns of peace are done, this will also wreck your rep.

The thing to remember is that you are at risk when you are providing something to the AI for 20 turns, whether it is gold, a luxury or strategic resource. So just be careful.

Declaring War
When you declare war you can also damage your trading reputation. If you have any units inside the cultural borders of a civ and you declare war on that civ while those units are still inside their borders, you are a bad guy and ruin your trading rep. Thus, before you declare war, make sure all your units are outside your soon to be enemy's land, including your naval units.

This doesn't seem to affect the AI any.

Wandering AI Settler Pairs
Every so often you will spot an AI settler moving across the map protected by a Spear or Pike or Musket or Rifle. They will walk across your borders and stroll throughout your lands looking for a place to settle, one tile a time. You are expected to ignore this affront. But don't try the same on the AI. A settler or worker they will generally ignore, but add a military unit and they will kick you out.

Border Expansion
Your borders expand based on the culture points of your cities. In order for the border around a city to expand beyond the initial nine tiles, it must have a culture producing building in it. The cultural borders expand at 10, 100, 1000 and 10000 culture points for the city. The two cheapest culture producing improvements are Temples (60 shields) and Libraries (80 shields). Of the two, build Libraries. They are more expensive and will take longer to build. They also give more culture points per turn than temples (3 vs. 2) so the borders expand sooner. And they help you to learn things faster. Over the long run they do more than temples.

Succession Games
Read through some of these. As the players discuss various aspects of the game amongest themselves you will learn from real life examples of how the game works and what to expect from it. If you get the chance, join or start an SG. Since you are only playing 10 turns at a time, you can play at a higher level than normal, and in the time the higher level will seem normal.