A detailed walkthough with two example games

[neilkaz]

Here's a nicely detailed walkthough I found with two example games.
http://www.rengels.de/computer/orion2/index.html

It is always nice to see these Sulla-type of detailed walkthoughs, however, my style of play is different than the author's so I wanted to see if I could do better, perhaps significantly better so last night I tried his exact DemoAquaCre race on his exact settings of Huge/8/Impossible/Prewarp/Average. I won in 247 turns rather than his 356 which put a on my face as I'd expected to require 275-300 turns to win with this race. (My game details later after a few of you others, if interested, give it a try).
http://www.rengels.de/computer/orion2/democratic.html

Tonight and this weekend if needed, I'll try his UniCre race which with LRHW and Artifacts is a reasonable balanced creative race.

The author doesn't say what year he actually won his example game, but does say that he was ready to take Orion on turn 220. He also gives population figures at various turns, and I know from my play style with Unified races that I should be well ahead of that. Hopefully I can win the game in 220 turns but think that somewhat more will be needed.
http://www.rengels.de/computer/orion2/unification.html

 

[neilkaz]

OK a big success with the UniCreArtiLRHW race inspite of a lousy starting position.

This time I won in 200 turns. Details will be posted later.

 

[neilkaz]

OK his UniCreArti LRHW race is quite a strong balanced race, IMHO. For those not reading his walkthrough, the 10 negatives are -5 for LG, -3 for Spying, which while bothersome, isn't a disaster when Unified, and -2 for GC which will hardly matter as the Creative will likely have powered armor and some other troop enhancers before major combat.

I prefer to start production races somewhat differently than the author does. I instantly scrap the starbase for 200 BC and to save 2 BC/turn and then next turn scrap the barracks for 30 BC saving 1 BC since I don't need it for moral. When it comes time to make transports, I'll almost certainly want to make them on planets closer to the front and they only cost 60 PP to build.

I think it is best to make a colony base quickly with a production race as you quickly get a housing colony and ASAP it gets a lab and then a factory and then housing is more efficient and I get 5 RP each turn for free from it.

I also do my best micro to try to buy things early on when half built which is efficient.

My starting setup this new game wasn't good with just a lousy poor colony in my system and nothing extradinary nearby to colonize. Hmm..right next to Orion..I like that, as long as I can keep the AI's off my back long enough to MIRV Mercs, some with EMG.

But things went well as useful leaders showed up. I decded to go for pollution processor rather quickly as the author recommends so I'd waste less production to pollution building a couple colony ships and also rebuilding my star base. This also means (note creative) I can now make a couple ships with MIRV Nukes and Trit armor to keep hungry AI's from thinking I am too weak as with Deut Cells I'll certainly meet some other races scouting around. When I do, I must make a couple spies to defend my tech.

To compare my start vs the author's start, at 3503.3 he has just his home planet and has just built his colony base and is generating 35 RP/turn. I already have my colony and it has a factory and a lab so it is pop 1 housing and can make a new worker every 6 turns. I also have 40 RP/turn (really 45 since I hired a researcher with a bonus of 5)

The author's good planet to colonize in his system was UR and HG. The Uni govt bonus will cancel out the HG penalty so he'd have had a great housing colony quickly and one that can easily build a lab and factory and I think should've colonized it instantly.

I continued to be surge somewhat ahead of the author as he got poll proc on turn 66 whereas I had it on turn 62. He had he 1st colony ship out on turn 75, I had my 2nd out on turn 79 and 3 turns later distaster struck me as it blew up due to a random event so there went 500 PP wasted and I really need that system with a terran rich pop 12 planet and 3 other planets so I had to rebuild it.

After getting pol proc we both went for bioshreres/farms. The farms on both home planets helped me free up a farmer+ to do something else. Knowing that I'd have spy troubles when I encounted some AI's I then went for Neural Scanner with the plan to get Supercomps next to really expand my tech. My first new system colonized had two smallish rich planets and a third worse planet so as time passes I knew I'd be getting 15 free RP/turn from each.

I met and bribed the Klackon with two techs (he can have scout labs and troop pods to steal space on his ships from weapons) and soon both treaties and a NAP.

Things progress and I colonize that rich system for 3 systems total now and there's not much else nearby that looks good and I have met 5 AI's now and am smoking the peace pipe with all of them and trying to get my treaties. I only NAP the Klacks for now just in case I want to attack someone at some point. The added income and research from the treaties is quite useful.

Time to gear up for war and Orion so I concentrate on Atmossphere Renewer and Zort Armor. If a creative race with a decent economy can quickly get to Zort Armor he basically has a won game. Along with Zort armor is a pollution reducing achievement..ie free and instant as well as a +1 (Uni makes it 1.5) free production boost for all workers.I'd also grabbed soil enrichment to free up a few farmers to work and bcuz I'll use clones on some large planets soon. Next was EMG tech while saving production to make my Orion Fleet. I had a couple of small ships and had refitted my scouts so as not to look too weak. They will be refitted again with EMG for Orion and defense of planets in war time.

EMG finished and that nice spy tech comes with it noting that I was losing the occasional tech to spies and had been able to tell some races to stop spying. I'd have thought 4 agents was enough.

I arrived at Orion on turn 137 with a Battleship with 10 MIRV Mercs and 4 MIRV EMG Mercs along with 3 EMG DD's (2 missiles) and 4 EMG FF's (1 missile). A FU EMG Merc requires 37 space and just fits on a frigate with battle pods and nothing else.

The Guardian was destroyed but I had to self distruct my BB to finish off his front shield to let the EMG's thru. Never before have I taken Orion this quickly playing Impossible Pre-Warp. The game turn said 3513.6 which is turn 137 since it starts at 3500.0. I'd done 140 turns once with a UniTol race and a superb start but this game I had a poor start and had a colony ship blow up!

I can now win this game anyway I want to with X-armor, death rays, reflection field and the +125 computer (came as bonus with Orion). The Avenger is super OP at this stage and the AI's won't be able to seriously harm even a single BB with 3 heavy death rays, 3 anti-missile rockets and reflcetion field as well and rein-hull and heavy armor for at least 100 turns.

This is definately a fun race to play and when your HW is both rich and artifact you need to strike a good balance between production and research since artifacts don't do you any good if you don't have some scientists, but if you have all scientists, there's no production. This race can leave 1 worker on production on the HW at all times initially giving 8PP/turn but you need more workers to build expensive projects.

This Creative Balanced race is better vs the AI's than I expected.

I don't think that I've totally optimized the start..but think I am close.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[neilkaz]

I played about 8 games with this UniCreArti LRHW race and won all of them in the low 200 turns (Pre Warp) except for the one game where I did so much killing that there weren't 3 races left to have a GC vote so I had to kill the last AI who was rather strong.

The author claims a 70% success rate with this race, but I was never close to threatened with losing. My start selling the SB and barracks and colonizing my home system immediately has me a few turns ahead of the author's start as shown in several tests.

This is quite an OP race and should be a good choice for newer players trying Impossible for the first time and wanting to interface with the AI's races.
Creative means that you have lots of early garbage techs to give the AI's for improved relations. Typically I only had to give 2 techs to have them ready and willing to make trade and research treaties. Be sure to give the same techs to all, so they can't gain from trading for something else.

.. neilkaz ..

 

[scratchthepitch]

Typically I only had to give 2 techs to have them ready and willing to make trade and research treaties.

It's odd how that works. I figure it is usually best to bribe them for the treaties. Unless I already got a strong fleet.

 

[neilkaz]

If you make treaties with AI's in general relations slowly improve with that AI. If you don't make treaties, in general relations slowly deteriorate and then you'll often end up at war.

 

[n0cx]

UniCreArti LRHW sounds very interesting. I'll give it a try, but not unless I managed to get my first impossible-win with Demovore.

By the way, neilkaz, your tip selling the SB and barracks directly for a quicker colony base is great. I'm loving it!

_n0cx

 

[vmxa]

You can sell barrack as a Uni as you do not get the morale boost and do not need to make transport, at least not for a time. SB is dependant upon other things and can be risky.

 

[neilkaz]

You can sell barrack as a Uni as you do not get the morale boost and do not need to make transport, at least not for a time. SB is dependant upon other things and can be risky.

Demo can also sell the barracks since they don't need it for moral.

I'd be hesitant to sell the SB with Demovore since early production is the problem until robominers are built. Demovore wants to make sure to survive and not get embroiled in early wars until it has some decent production to build ships. This way, it can use that big tech advantage. Demovore also generates more cash due to democracy so the early cash boost is less important than with a powerful production race and note that the production race can quickly rebuild the SB later when needed or pump out a couple of early ships if threatened.

I've recently played about 40 games vs the AI's using the game's weaker standard races and only once did I sell the SB. This was a very lucky start as Alkari where I spawned in the lower left and close enough to the corner that I figured no one was there. I had a large nebula between me and the rest of the galaxy and 5 (yes very rare 5) useful planets in my system. Hence, I wanted to crack out CB's and once I built up all 5 planets and had SB's at all my CP was fine and I basically romped.

 

[n0cx]

Demo can also sell the barracks since they don't need it for moral.

I'd be hesitant to sell the SB with Demovore since early production is the problem until robominers are built.

This is what I did in my actual game; just sold the barracks. Selling the SB seemed unnecessary and too dangerous when starting about the lower middle of the galaxy.

Demovore wants to make sure to survive and not get embroiled in early wars until it has some decent production to build ships. This way, it can use that big tech advantage. Demovore also generates more cash due to democracy so the early cash boost is less important than with a powerful production race and note that the production race can quickly rebuild the SB later when needed or pump out a couple of early ships if threatened.

This sounds really plausible. I hope that my first conquest in my actual game is not too early, but I think it isn't and it will work out. If not, I've learned another lesson ^^

I've recently played about 40 games vs the AI's using the game's weaker standard races and only once did I sell the SB. This was a very lucky start as Alkari where I spawned in the lower left and close enough to the corner that I figured no one was there. I had a large nebula between me and the rest of the galaxy and 5 (yes very rare 5) useful planets in my system. Hence, I wanted to crack out CB's and once I built up all 5 planets and had SB's at all my CP was fine and I basically romped.

Sounds like the hell of a start!

_n0cx